Speedway World Cup 2017

[iris123]

 

We won more medals for 2 reasons....1. we didnt win that many previous, so anything had to be an improvement and 2. We've started to employ foreign coaches....look at the Rugby team ???

I'm sure the cycling coach is foreign too ? although someone will most likely correct me

Whatever the reason,we have improved immensly.That is a fact............

[stewmac]

You and UK Martin seem to being going a bitt ott.Ok i am used to seeing that sort of thing from UKM,but does it reflect the reality?Do we always need to know the UK at sprts etc?Is this just harking back to some old saying that might never have been true and i don't think is nowadays

 

Forget speedway for a moment,if what you say is actually true and the problems start in schools then we would be as bad at every sport as we are at speedway unless speedway riders go to different schools to cyclists etc.The fact is we are pretty good at sports lately.Just look at how many medals we won at the last 2 Olympics as a guide.We actually won more medals in those two Olympics than we did in any previous Olympics going back 100 years-In fact we won double triple or quadruple the amount as in many Olympics from 1924 to 2008!!!! Just look at how great we have done in Cycling over the past decade or so and also look at Tennis just for a few examples.Football?We are currently Under 20 world champions and in the final of theEuropean Under 19's,so what was that you was saying about schools?

The difference is that the vast majority of these medals you talk about were won by athletes who went to private schools. There the ethos is different.

I hate private schooling myself, where the only reason for these places to exist in my eyes is to buy privilege. But with far more money and resources they get the idea of breeding winning sportspeople. I'm a primary school teacher in a state school and I can assure you that it's there that the problem starts from. The majority of teachers follow this politically correct bull that states we can't humiliate those who might not win. It bugs me to the hilt. Nobody is talking about humiliating them, but we simply have to instill the idea that if we want to succeed we have to accept that for all the tiny number of winners there will be many more losers.

Going back to your post about the medals in Olympics, unfortunately not many speedway riders come through the private school system. I can only think of one in my 41 years supporting that has been any good, Mr Tatum himself.

Edited July 14, 2017 by stewmac

[iris123]

Not seen any stats to prove or disprove what you say and i certainly ain't going to look each medal winner up,but....

 

Although the likes of Froome and Hoy went to private schools other medal winners like Victoria Pendleton,Jason Kenny,Bradley Wiggins and Mo Farah,maybe Jessica Ennis? didn't.Another Joe Joyce the boxer went to a school just down the road from where i used to live and that certainly isn't private!!!

Edited July 14, 2017 by iris123

[stewmac]

Not seen any stats to prove or disprove what you say and i certainly ain't going to look each medal winner up,but....

 

Although the likes of Froome and Hoy went to private schools other medal winners like Victoria Pendleton,Jason Kenny,Bradley Wiggins and Mo Farah,maybe Jessica Ennis? didn't.Another Joe Joyce the boxer went to a school just down the road from where i used to live and that certainly isn't private!!!

That's great that they proved to be winners. But you should check the stats. They tell the story quite plainly, unfortunately.

In Scotland where I teach, primary school pupils are supposed to have 2 hours PE per week. Many don't, simply because PE is still by many seen as not one of the crucial subjects. Compare that to Finland, where I'm on holiday right now, where primary school pupils do an hour of PE every day! There's a huge difference in attitude right away!

Edited July 14, 2017 by stewmac

[iris123]

That's great that they proved to be winners. But you should check the stats. They tell the story quite plainly, unfortunately.

In Scotland where I teach, primary school pupils are supposed to have 2 hours PE per week. Many don't, simply because PE is still by many seen as not one of the crucial subjects. Compare that to Finland, where I'm on holiday right now, where primary school pupils do an hour of PE every day! There's a huge difference in attitude right away!

So that must show Finland are much better at sport than we are?All i know is Finland are good at racing cars,but that doesn't have much to do with how often PE is on the school rota???Are you saying that they are better?Ok they are pretty good at Ice Hockey......

Edited July 14, 2017 by iris123

[stewmac]

So that must show Finland are much better at sport than we are?All i know is Finland are good at racing cars,but that doesn't have much to do with how often PE is on the school rota???Are you saying that they are better?Ok they are pretty good at Ice Hockey......

No. All I'm saying is that we have to adopt a more serious attitude to sport, fitness and crucially, winning.

And in order for that to happen, we need far, far more money in schools for specialists and an end to the relentless cutbacks and austerity.

Edited July 14, 2017 by stewmac

[iris123]

Here is one stat.Medals per capita and you can see we come out pretty damned good in the world

 

http://www.medalspercapita.com/

 

plus we know success at boxing and football isn't just down to private schools.very little to do with private schools i would guess

 

Finland with their one hour PE per day and Germany with their fear of losing come out far worse.Strange that

Edited July 14, 2017 by iris123

[uk_martin]

Finland with their one hour PE per day and Germany with their fear of losing come out far worse.Strange that

I guess it depends on tge sports you look at and which these countries focus on. Germany is not short of success in Football or Alpine sports nor is Finland an international disgrace at Ice Hockey let alone motor sports.

So you think our riders didn't want to win

Can you point out the bit where I said that?

[iris123]

I guess it depends on tge sports you look at and which these countries focus on. Germany is not short of success in Football or Alpine sports nor is Finland an international disgrace at Ice Hockey let alone motor sports.

That is basically what i said.Contrary to what you said Germany aren't that great at sport over the past decade.We have overtaken them by a good bit at the Olympics.You should hear them crying on tv about how they are now pretty poor at one of their traditionally strong sports of swimming!!!And whilst they were far better than us at tennis in the Becker era their great attitude hasn't taken them further.In fact we are now neck and neck,maybe even better than them.They are now taking a keen interest in a few 'sports' where we do particularly well.At least far better than Germany.Darts and Rugby.....Not sure what the state of play is now,but it was only a few months ago they were alarmed that they only had one world boxing champ!!!!

 

So basically looking at our sporting attitude,we do win an awful lot and have an attitude as good as most cuntries in the world.We might not be that good at speedway at this moment in time,but you are better concentrating on that than trying to bring in sport in general into the debate,because it just makes no sense in this case

Edited July 14, 2017 by iris123

[Humphrey Appleby]

plus we know success at boxing and football isn't just down to private schools.very little to do with private schools i would guess

Finland with their one hour PE per day and Germany with their fear of losing come out far worse.Strange that

 

What has changed in the UK in recent years, is the focus on elite sport. Huge amounts of money being targeted at sports which have been identified as 'gold mines' for British teams.

 

However, England has consistently underachieved in its main sport of football (although winning the World U20 Cup went almost unnoticed), and whilst it's been more successful in cricket, it still hasn't really achieved as much as the law of averages amongst just 10 countries would suggest. In the meantime, the grassroots of these sports is largely dying on its a*se, whilst public money is channelled into encouraging participation in sports that will never be mass participation due to the equipment and facilities required.

 

Of course, the public isn't really interested whilst British teams clean-up in the likes of Olympics in the targeted sports, but you have to wonder where things are going in mainstream sports, and indeed the future of the recreational side of things after youth level.

 

Scotland has self-inflicted problems in its sport, especially football. Not enough competitive teams, an insufficiently competitive structure, and too many competing bodies running parallel competitions that have created stagnation and aren't ensuring resources are going to the right places.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Humphrey Appleby

[iris123]

As I said before,the reason isn't that important,whether it be foreign coaches,private schools or money being thrown at sports,the fact is we are fairly successful as a nation.OK there could be improvements in some sports,but to come out and state as UK Martin did that we lack the mentality to succeed and think it OK to fail,so do more often than not is just nonsense.The facts speak for themselves.

[stewmac]

As I said before,the reason isn't that important,whether it be foreign coaches,private schools or money being thrown at sports,the fact is we are fairly successful as a nation.OK there could be improvements in some sports,but to come out and state as UK Martin did that we lack the mentality to succeed and think it OK to fail,so do more often than not is just nonsense.The facts speak for themselves.

Despite what you say though, we do lack the mentality to win big in speedway. The SWC facts speak for themselves. While I don't wish to get into a debate about Tai, it seems almost unbelievable that our one world class rider, for whatever reasons, chooses not to participate.

I'd imagine that in almost any other sport in almost any other country that situation simply would not be allowed to happen.

[iris123]

Entirely different to trying to say as a nation we are not winners and putting the blame on what is anyway a falsehood on schools.....

We could be a bit worried that a school teacher comes out with such stuff though and also the bit about Latvians and Russians being Slavic brothers.Schools can only be as good as the teachers that work there

[stewmac]

Entirely different to trying to say as a nation we are not winners and putting the blame on what is anyway a falsehood on schools.....

We could be a bit worried that a school teacher comes out with such stuff though and also the bit about Latvians and Russians being Slavic brothers.Schools can only be as good as the teachers that work there

What I said a few posts back was that most of this nonsense starts at primary school where the ethos is on taking part rather than winning at sports days. If you don't believe me I suggest you take a tour round some school sports days and you will witness it for yourself.

As for the Slavic brothers quote you regurgitated, that was taken directly from a Russian relative of mine. My wife!

Edited July 14, 2017 by stewmac

[OGT]

Been away all week so watched the final tonight.

 

As far as Team GB's effort is concerned, it reflected the standing of speedway in this country, TBH.

[uk_martin]

Despite what you say though, we do lack the mentality to win big in speedway. The SWC facts speak for themselves. While I don't wish to get into a debate about Tai, it seems almost unbelievable that our one world class rider, for whatever reasons, chooses not to participate.

Tai has a different outlook on the sport than the BSPA. That's why he's at odds with them. One of those two parties is a two times world champion with the proven mentality to win big, and the other isn't. Guess which is which. (& guess who didn't go through the British primary school system lol)

[sharpandroid]

Why all the fuss, it's Tai Woffindens choice if he wants to ride in any meeting/championship that is available to him, he is undoubtedly a class act on a bike and shows the courage not to be bullied into doing something he doesn't want to.

Great Britain, what's that?

Edited July 15, 2017 by sharpandroid

[iris123]

Tai might not have attended a school in the UK,but I am guessing Jason Crump did?

[waytogo28]

We ( the UK / GB ) were winners in speedway during the era when we had the most powerful ( and well paying ) leagues with high average crowds. There was money in the sport and that is when riders from Europe flocked here a) to gain experience to earn better money. The wheel has turned so far round and in the last 20 years Sweden and Poland have become THE places to go to for riders with serious aspirations ( if you can get in ) and where you can earn much higher rewards. As the sport has faded in terms of spectator appeal across the UK and little money is now available we can no longer attract the top stars. Or soon retain the services of more of our own top riders ( TW has left already and others will go when / if they get the offers and quite right too ). Thats the way of things - decline & fall. Those less prominent countries now emerging have riders who are getting Polish experience.

 

I was surprised to hear that Sky are continuing to fulfil their contract of payments to the BSPA ( whilst not wanting to offer coverage ) Can that money not be used for setting up Test matches abroad? Or did it all go on buying Gerhard engines?

[screm]

Tai has a different outlook on the sport than the BSPA. That's why he's at odds with them. One of those two parties is a two times world champion with the proven mentality to win big, and the other isn't. Guess which is which. (& guess who didn't go through the British primary school system lol)

 

Yes but one of them also decided he doesn't want to ride for Team GB and has thrown his rattle out of his pram and taken his ball home.