Gavan Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Spot on Phil. I saw the interview with Cook post practice/pre meeting he looked a nervous wreck - after being on top of the world all week post Event 1. It's tremendously frustrating to see how far behind we ALWAYS are in these meetings. Even at home last year it took Cook and King 3 rides each till they were capable of winning a race (or even doing better than 3rd) I do not for one second think the Latvians, Russians etc are better than us man for man but somehow we cannot compete at this level with them. Russia beat us to 3rd with neither Laguta & Emil scoring 8-10 points less then we all though he would on his home track. The SWC team should be be separate to the BSPA. I like the way the Americans do it. Lance King whos been there done it at the helm & then people like Steve Evans concentrating on the organization etc. We need a managerial set up similar IMO Not a jolly fun to interview manager with a lot of passion but no clue what its like to ride at this level. What a waste to Have Havvy Loram Louis Tatum Screen not being used. Trust me on this....Mark Loram wouldnt come back and do anything right now very disillusioned with the set up and who can blame him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Trust me on this....Mark Loram wouldnt come back and do anything right now very disillusioned with the set up and who can blame him Another illustration of what a sht show it is right now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Spot on Phil. I saw the interview with Cook post practice/pre meeting he looked a nervous wreck - after being on top of the world all week post Event 1. It's tremendously frustrating to see how far behind we ALWAYS are in these meetings. Even at home last year it took Cook and King 3 rides each till they were capable of winning a race (or even doing better than 3rd) I do not for one second think the Latvians, Russians etc are better than us man for man but somehow we cannot compete at this level with them. Russia beat us to 3rd with neither Laguta & Emil scoring 8-10 points less then we all though he would on his home track. The SWC team should be be separate to the BSPA. I like the way the Americans do it. Lance King whos been there done it at the helm & then people like Steve Evans concentrating on the organization etc. We need a managerial set up similar IMO Not a jolly fun to interview manager with a lot of passion but no clue what its like to ride at this level. What a waste to Have Havvy Loram Louis Tatum Screen not being used. Part of Woffinden's plan was to buy the rights to the international team, probably with a similar way of working to the USA. The BSPA refused to sell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) How necessary is it to have an experienced rider at the helm i wonder? Take Denmark for instance.Anders Secher managed to win 2 golds and 2 silver in his 5 years in charge.Which is the same as jan Steachmann managed over a longer period.And Hans Nielsen after two failures to even reach the final has now no chance of matching Sechers record in the 5 year period....... Edited July 11, 2017 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I don't think they need to be a experienced rider. But you need someone who can help re set ups etc. that is where team GB really missed tai - not just the 15+ points he would have scored but the knowledge of polish tracks. As it was team gb actually gated pretty well but looked like they were riding lawnmowers, even compared to the Russians. Anyone think if King had been in the squad we may have squeezed the extra couple of points needed for 3rd? Worrall was very impressive, Harris battled, Cook and lambert were surprisingly poor but no lack of effort - just totally off the pace, which was surprising given cooks great form this year. 4th is a decent effort without tai, with tai obviously would have picked up a medal, but to finish ahead of Aussie and Denmark is a sold result. I don't buy that it is purely to do with home advantage either - if we'd finished behind Latvia in the first round of behind Laguta less Russia in the play offs there would have been plenty of criticism of the Brits, no one would have blamed the draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) How necessary is it to have an experienced rider at the helm i wonder? Take Denmark for instance.Anders Secher managed to win 2 golds and 2 silver in his 5 years in charge.Which is the same as jan Steachmann managed over a longer period.And Hans Nielsen after two failures to even reach the final has now no chance of matching Sechers record in the 5 year period....... If you have the riders, then not AS necessary. When its a young/in experienced team I think its a great help. The Danes had so many good riders when they won all they needed was someone to keep it Harmonious. But some educated/experienced input never a bad thing no matter how good you are. Edited July 11, 2017 by RPNYC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 But as i said on the night,nobody has the record at this years SWC that Hans has,yet the Danes were complaining about their set ups at the beginning of the meeting!!!! I agree it could be of some help to have an experienced rider in there.But like i said,Secher had a better record(if counted over the seasons in charge) with basically the same riders than Steachmann....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 But as i said on the night,nobody has the record at this years SWC that Hans has,yet the Danes were complaining about their set ups at the beginning of the meeting!!!! I agree it could be of some help to have an experienced rider in there.But like i said,Secher had a better record(if counted over the seasons in charge) with basically the same riders than Steachmann....... I agree with you it doesn't guarantee success but it doesn't hurt. Plus this is a slight dip in the Danes form after years of being top 3. Years, DECADES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Another illustration of what a sht show it is right now... Mark has said that when they dont listen to the best we have in Tai , then they are doing something wrong....then again Mark had issues throughout a lot of his career to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I agree with you it doesn't guarantee success but it doesn't hurt. Plus this is a slight dip in the Danes form after years of being top 3. Years, DECADES!!! But is it a coincidence that when Secher was in charge after his first poor season he then had two wins and two second places before he packed the job in after an argument about Jepsen Jensen.Then Nielsen took over and they have two big failures!!!!!! Plus we heard year after year that Middlo was a great motivator and obviously should have some good day to day knowledge of how to set things up,but didn't really happen.And now we also have Rossiter who is much the same on the motivation front.I always have said we need someone who can get that extra bit out of each rider,just like our old 400m relay team always done far better as a team as they could as individuals.We need someone who can get that sort of display when we go out as a team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 But is it a coincidence that when Secher was in charge after his first poor season he then had two wins and two second places before he packed the job in after an argument about Jepsen Jensen.Then Nielsen took over and they have two big failures!!!!!! Plus we heard year after year that Middlo was a great motivator and obviously should have some good day to day knowledge of how to set things up,but didn't really happen.And now we also have Rossiter who is much the same on the motivation front.I always have said we need someone who can get that extra bit out of each rider,just like our old 400m relay team always done far better as a team as they could as individuals.We need someone who can get that sort of display when we go out as a team Again, I hear what you are saying just as it stands we are so far behind with set up and track craft we need it more than most. Plus as mentioned, Our current coach has fallen out with our #1, that is another Red Flag... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) How necessary is it to have an experienced rider at the helm i wonder? Take Denmark for instance.Anders Secher managed to win 2 golds and 2 silver in his 5 years in charge.Which is the same as jan Steachmann managed over a longer period.And Hans Nielsen after two failures to even reach the final has now no chance of matching Sechers record in the 5 year period....... Good point. Nielsen makes loads of errors. Look at football with Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho who were not great players. They manage people and tactics. The mechanics can do the technical stuff for the riders. Did Pete Adams ever ride a bike. Edited July 11, 2017 by marky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Again, I hear what you are saying just as it stands we are so far behind with set up and track craft we need it more than most. Plus as mentioned, Our current coach has fallen out with our #1, that is another Red Flag... I don't think Rosco's position is sustainable, particularly if it's his presence is stopping Woffy from returning. All the best Rob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Mark has said that when they dont listen to the best we have in Tai , then they are doing something wrong....then again Mark had issues throughout a lot of his career to Has he said this in the media ? If not I personally don't think you should be publicising what he may have said in a private conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 last years European U21 final was in France, 3 miles from where Adam was born, he knew the track, he knew the crowd, he even knew most of the track staff by name ! It would have been great experience of European big meetings for any young Brits who managed to qualify. Matt Ford even approached the BSPA to see if we could enter riders. All requests were turned down and no one took part, are the deliberately trying to deny our youngsters opportunities to ride abroad ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 I don't think Rosco's position is sustainable, particularly if it's his presence is stopping Woffy from returning. All the best Rob Not heard that as a reason for Tai not racing. Poland have more riders to choose from than any country nowadays, the kids go to speedway school, the tracks are available ALL of the time to all their riders. Poland were practicing for a fortnight on the Leszno track before the final weren't they? How can we compete with that? Our set up is completely different. We have our leagues to bring on our boys and the Poultec courses which is helping some of them. Robert Lambert is doing his Polish apprenticeship in their 3rd division and it's going well, no doubt he will try to move up next year, good luck to him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) last years European U21 final was in France, 3 miles from where Adam was born, he knew the track, he knew the crowd, he even knew most of the track staff by name ! It would have been great experience of European big meetings for any young Brits who managed to qualify. Matt Ford even approached the BSPA to see if we could enter riders. All requests were turned down and no one took part, are the deliberately trying to deny our youngsters opportunities to ride abroad ? In the early Nineties both English Cricket and Rugby internationally were struggling which led to apathy for their respective domestic games.. Both Sports then embarked on following the blueprint of what the Aussies had done several years previously when they too had been struggling at International level.... ie They focused their business plan, development plan and resources on getting the National Teams successful with a belief that domestic Cricket and Rugby would benefit on the coat tails of higher media coverage and public interest... Just, in fact,'spookily' like domestic British League Speedway benefitted in the 1970's by the ITV Saturday coverage of 'England' beating everyone both individually and collectively as a Team.... The Sport didn't 'boom' in those years because of what Belle Vue, Cradley, Wimbledon, Coventry etc etc etc did each week... Incredibly those who have run the Sport over here for the best part of 30 years or so have actually 'trained up' other nations riders to hammer us at International level, thus meaning the mainstream media (who love going overboard in reporting National Sporting success) now have zero interest in following it... I remember in 1976 being nine years of age reading the back page of The Daily Mirror with a picture of PC and a full report of him winning the World Title! The board outside the newsagents (that you had in those days with that days headlines) led with this story, something along the lines of 'PC races to Title'..! That meant that their Editorial team felt this headline would sell papers. Imagine that type of coverage now....? Surely there must be some within the BSPA that can see if they had a successful International team allied to five or six riders individually regularly competing for World honours, then the Countries Media would sit up and take notice of it? History says it works.... So give the British lads the chance and support to make it happen... Edited July 11, 2017 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) Reality check time I'm afraid the link below is to the WTC final from 2007 - confirms we have had just one world class rider in Woffinden in 10 years and he was Aussie produced. Other countries (Poland apart) will also struggle as their world class riders retire so it's looking like the competition might just be in its last days. http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/2139/world-cup-final Edited July 11, 2017 by GWC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 But Denmark had tougher opposition in their semi then USA had in theirs and should be ranked higher then USA. Unfortunately with the current format of the World Cup we never really know where GB are in speedways pecking order. For the last 5 years the draw has been such that we have been either seeded to the final or had to beat 1 team only ( Australia ) to reach the Final and all on home soil every year. This year emphasised it even further than beating a patched up Aussie team on a one line gate and go track was not a passport to World success. The mutual backslapping on this forum after Kings Lynn was replaced rapidly by the doom and gloom after Leszno. What did we learn the Weekend, not much . For one we have no World class riders apart from Woffinden and secondly we do not have the machinery able to compete at this level, we made some good starts on Saturday only to be passed inside and out by quicker, better riders. I have said in an earlier post I would have much prefered us in the race off against similar standard opposition, I feel our young riders would have got more benefit. Whats the answer, well the World Cup doesn't look like changing , Poland and GB as the biggest markets will always get a home round or the Final, I do feel our riders would benefit from the SEC and the pairs, although to do this you would have to give up your doubling up with too many weekend fixtures missed. As for the World Cup please BSI seed the hosts to the race off in future. I was in Leszno the weekend and the crowd for the race off was poor, Also lets have a fairer balance between event 1 and 2 . Every year 1 round is far stronger than the other and on tracks worthy of the event. Thankfully Leszno provided a fitting venue with plenty of lines with good racing. Congratulations Poland, 4 World class riders all 25 and under 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 Reality check time I'm afraid the link below is to the WTC final from 2007 - confirms we have had just one world class rider in Woffinden in 10 years and he was Aussie produced. Other countries (Poland apart) will also struggle as their world class riders retire so it's looking like the competition might just be in its last days. http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/2139/world-cup-final Again where was this WCF held ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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