BWitcher Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) You don't think putting Zagar on the worst gate for his tactical ride was a mistake! Madness should have waited to see how things were panning out and use him in a easier race. I konw you topped the league but it's the play offs that he really has to show his mettle. I don't think that was a mistake at all. Zagar was their only race winner at that point, Cook had run a last. I don't buy at all that gate 1 was the worst gate either.. the gate 3 'advantage' is over-stated as well given the riders in each race. Heat 1, Worrall was of gate 1, he led PK.. no surprise that Zagar won of gate 3, its very hard of 4 in heat 1. Heat 2. Clegg was of gate 1... Howarth was on 3 and with Worrall 15 metres back that's an easy win. Heat 3. Cook actually led from gate 1 and was passed by Masters. Fricke was on gate three and nowhere. Heat 4: Woffinden was off gate three so again you'd expect him to win the race. Howarth was off gate one and 2nd. Heat 5 saw Howarth win again off three, maybe the first 'surprise' but he was flying. So coming into Heat 6 I don't see as Lemon had any other choice. Some folk say to wait and see.. but wait till where? Heat 7 was Lindgren and Masters.. Heat 8 Woffinden and Howarth (on a max at this point) against the Worralls.. Heat 9 maybe with Nicholls? but he'd run a woeful last to begin the night.. So essentially it was either Zagar, who was mighty impressive in Heat 1, or wait till heat 9. The other aspect of using a tac early is showing faith in your team. Use it while you can, if your team fights back the opportunity is gone. Delaying it is sending a message to your team you still expect to be losing later in the meeting. Also don't forget as I mentioned on the other thread, Cook didn't actually gate in that race, Thorssell did off two but focused on ensuring Zagar stayed at the back. Had Cook been on the TR, Thorssell would have been focused on him. Edited October 4, 2016 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Always the exception, i like that ! I try to be objective too, top riders should be able to ride any track, Holder seems to have a mental block about small tracks. Most Belle Vue fans were gracious in defeat accepting that they rode badly, i say most because one comes to mind who wasn't! Nicholls was terrific for Poole when he rode there so may be the pressure got to him as well, you would expect him to score double figures on his own, maybe having Sophie in the pits put him off, it would me! Overall i can't see how they can keep Woffinden quiet on the wide open spaces at Belle Vue or Lindgren for that matter but Wolves do have some weaknesses although i think Howarth will give as good as he gets but Clegg may not trouble the scorers. Many on here including you tell us Middlo is a poor manager but surely even you would agree Mark Lemon is much worse, Adams may not be laugh a minute but his calm persona is what is needed, no targets just get as many points as you can. IF you knew what Lemo does behind the scenes, helping riders and especially Cook, you wouldn't say that. What he cannot do is ride the bikes for them. His fault that Zagar scored five or that Scotty failed dismally? I think not. Maybe with hindsight Cook should have had the tactical but Lemo explained that. BV are lucky to have him. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I haven't watched the first leg as yet, although I know the score, due to stupid Facebook. Still coming tomorrow for the 2nd leg. Anywhere nearby the NSS with decent food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perton Wolf Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I couldn't disagree more on Mark Lemon, he has been fantastic for Belle Vue and dont forget we topped the league. Of course he makes the odd mistake, but hes not as experienced yet as Adams or Middlo. I think Adams is great but it was only last season a lot on here were saying its time for him to go. Back on Lemon im not sure what mistake he made last night as i can't remember any being his fault, the only thing i would of done different was nicholls or zagar in 15 for Worrall. I guess it comes down to defining the lines between team manager and a more team builder/promotor role. Adams clearly has great management skills but hasn't been a good team builder in the last few years before this one. Middlo at Poole with Ford seem to be the best team builders, with a generous inferpretation of the rulebook of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 IF you knew what Lemo does behind the scenes, helping riders and especially Cook, you wouldn't say that. What he cannot do is ride the bikes for them. His fault that Zagar scored five or that Scotty failed dismally? I think not. Maybe with hindsight Cook should have had the tactical but Lemo explained that. BV are lucky to have him. I didn't say that it is all his fault of course it isn't but the second year running his team have started the play offs badly, maybe he wants it too much and pressures the riders too much and they over ride or maybe the riders want it too much but Cook seems to be only rider who can handle it. I am sure Adams does a lot behind the scenes as does Middlo and we all make mistakes but in a play off final you can't afford mistakes. Adams calming influence is a major factor in Wolves success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 It was a decent post.. ruined by immediately attacking Shovlar in the opening line! Looks like Mr Flange has gone on a holiday though, that's something! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I dont think Middlo is a poor manager tactics wise but he wasnt good for Team GB and his biggest issue is is social media stuff. He was gracious in defeat last week i have to say. Hi Lisa glad your pleased. Might not be about to long who knows. Anyways have to say Newman was sensational in the play offs but where has that been all season? Better late than never! Glad you are pleased with his form Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Wolves are in the driving seat and are favourites now after the first leg. However , Belle Vue have a massive challenge to turn it round and I do believe they can do it if all 7 riders ride to their best ability. One thing for sure we are in for some great racing tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 IF you knew what Lemo does behind the scenes, helping riders and especially Cook, you wouldn't say that. What he cannot do is ride the bikes for them. His fault that Zagar scored five or that Scotty failed dismally? I think not. Maybe with hindsight Cook should have had the tactical but Lemo explained that. BV are lucky to have him. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, Zagar had won Ht1 so you can understand Lemon putting the tactical ride on his No1, true cook was off the best gate and went on to win the race but surely Zagar should've been capable of getting among the points even if it wasn't a heat win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's over unless we can get a few early 5-1s Wolves are just the better side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 This will be all over by heat ten, if not sooner. No stopping the mighty Wolves this year with their astute team change and a reserve hitting top form at the right moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 think adams is great television,always look forward to his interviews,especially his response when someone asks him a stupid question I'm pretty sure the questions come from 'above' through the earpiece (FR may/may not confirm). I've thought for a while now then when a 'stupid' question is fed, especially with the likes of Adams, a flash of 'oh $hit' across the face of the interviewer as they know what sort of reply is coming. Great TV though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I'm pretty sure the questions come from 'above' through the earpiece (FR may/may not confirm). I've thought for a while now then when a 'stupid' question is fed, especially with the likes of Adams, a flash of 'oh $hit' across the face of the interviewer as they know what sort of reply is coming. Great TV though It's only fair of me to say Peter Adams got his tactics spot on last night, ensuring Clegg raced Jacobs three times. We did see him having a chuckle when Tai planted the monster energy drink in his hands for the one interview.. I think that shows how well they get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Looks like Mr Flange has gone on a holiday though, that's something! Flange and Stevebrum have made up again now. Steve gave Fred some Groupon vouchers for a weekend break at Hotel Dignitas. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Flange and Stevebrum have made up again now. Steve gave Fred some Groupon vouchers for a weekend break at Hotel Dignitas. No holding back on that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Looks like Mr Flange has gone on a holiday though, that's something! At least it will stop everyone saying I'm him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's only fair of me to say Peter Adams got his tactics spot on last night, ensuring Clegg raced Jacobs three times. We did see him having a chuckle when Tai planted the monster energy drink in his hands for the one interview.. I think that shows how well they get on. I WOULD go so far to add that Tai has sorely missed PA's influence at SGPs this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogo1 Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Doesn't matter how nice a guy Lemon is or how much he helps riders off track , he blew it big time, swap a reserve to go against Tai, any idiot could see that gate 3 was by far the best gate, Cook was on 3 and made a decent start in his first race only for Masters to take him wide, I agree that the manager doesn't ride the bikes but to Clegg beat Jacobs 3 times without swapping reserves baffles me too. Watch Adams in action tomorrow and I bet he doesn't just look at riders scores, he will no the gate stats in every race. And if they get in trouble early his TR won't score 0 I really hope Belle Vue start well and give Wolves a fright, will certainly make it better for the neutral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Doesn't matter how nice a guy Lemon is or how much he helps riders off track , he blew it big time, swap a reserve to go against Tai, any idiot could see that gate 3 was by far the best gate, Cook was on 3 and made a decent start in his first race only for Masters to take him wide, I agree that the manager doesn't ride the bikes but to Clegg beat Jacobs 3 times without swapping reserves baffles me too. Watch Adams in action tomorrow and I bet he doesn't just look at riders scores, he will no the gate stats in every race. And if they get in trouble early his TR won't score 0 I really hope Belle Vue start well and give Wolves a fright, will certainly make it better for the neutral. Again, Cook didn't make the start from gate three in that race, a fact that seems to pass a few people by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman77 Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I can see belle vue coming back and it being down to the last race, that would be a good end to an awful season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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