gee jay Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 yep thats me.. Yes Mike has pee'd a lot of people off but lets be straight its not a popularity contest its someone who can come in with knowledge of the business at hand.. the riders and the Plymouth area.. as much as i hate to say it as I dont deal with the family at all any more through personal reasons he seems the best man for the job unless someone else out there with suitably deep pockets and knowledge of the sport comes in.. let be honest I know mike would never ever come back into the sport if he felt he couldnt make any money at it he is that kind of person he always said he would never pay for someone else to have a good evening.. that didnt just extend to the general public.. I have no dealings with the Bowden family at all i left the area a long time ago but my heart will always be with Plymouth and have been down a few times recently and took in a meeting while down there not so long ago seems the atmosphere has gone from the place.. but hold your hands up guys while we all dislike bowden he made that place and run it very well until he went premier league he just isnt professional enough for the prem.. but with the right team behind him and limited dealings with the press etc and if he gets back to putting back on a show for people it may just work..dont let the dislike for him stop you from supporting the team. As someone said earlier i would never line bowdens pockets.. think of it you get to keep speedway in Plymouth and a team you can get behind and you dont loose a sport a lot of you love in the local area through the dislike for the owner i'd just like to echo one of the things you say in your post. the mallets annoyed a lot of people when involved under tim stone's reign so that was their attitude when they took over and despite putting on track the best wasps team for over 10 yrs they didn't come back and everybody knows what happened then, so it's o.k. to take the moral high ground but it can also lead to cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. it's certainly worth thinking about, so good advise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 So what have the Liquidators got to sell? The tea urn, anything else. Neville the Devils chopper bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewy Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Its not a question of whats left to sell more a question of whats lost to speedway if no one takes it over it is one of the most exciting tracks to watch speedway on in the pl imo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Wouldn't be too hard to get it up and running in the PL, especially with all the willing helpers still there, but and it's a big but, the threat of vandalism would be too big a risk to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzafl Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Premier league is not viable the people are not coming through the gate.. a new owner at least would want to break even not lose thousands a week.. if premier league was viable the owners wouldn't be going into liquidation.. It is a great track but I think a step down to national league get a crowd back and then step back up if viable.. that's a business stance.. it has to be a viable option and obviously with what has happened it's shown it isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 You've contradicted yourself. Too many viables, if we don't pay the Riders, then it would be viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzafl Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 You've contradicted yourself. Too many viables, if we don't pay the Riders, then it would be viable. No i havent.. I have said from the outset Premier is not viable at Plymouth it was shown from the very first year.. and now the current guys have gone into liquidation they didnt have the people coming through the gates.. and didnt pay the riders their full money i believe kyle newman is still owed money if you cannot pay your riders that shows me it isnt viable. so a drop down to the national league means a drop in wage bill keep the people coming through the gates.. get back into a profit model for the business build on that do well in the national league and bring back the bigger crowd then and only then when it is fully stable make the move up again.. nothing contradictory about that statement and its the same statement i made on the first post on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 So if the crowds have deserted the PL Devils, what makes you think they will come back in droves to see an inferior product? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyham Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Reference riders not being paid is not under dispute, but how this came about is tarnishing certain other people with a brush that is not warranted. Not knowing all the facts and stating such things although true does not put certain people in a good light when they may not have had any influence on such matters. There has been and are a lot of things that are not for public knowledge and rightly so leading to the situation Plymouth Speedway finds its self in at this moment in time. But it is totally wrong to tar everyone with the same brush as this is not so, and when only stating outcomes without facts, people will only draw their own conclusions and they mostly are the wrong conclusions as to how this situation was arrived at, which could not be further from the truth. Edited October 25, 2016 by keyham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzafl Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 So if the crowds have deserted the PL Devils, what makes you think they will come back in droves to see an inferior product? its speedway and a winning side promoted properly will bring people back but not enough for premier league. I spoke with Ashely Taylor when I was down last and he said to me he was losing £2,000 a week minimum that is not a business model that anyone would want to sustain and in fact has been proven by them going into liquidation. I dont think for one second that the prem is gone and forgotten but without the level of support needed i think it will be a foolish choice to remian in the Prem until who ever owns the team gets things moving forwards get the business back on track with a decent bank balance. no one will want to loose money. I wish Plymouth all the best I have many fond memories of the track and the teams that rode for the Devils while I was there and I know if you went National League you will have a que of very good riders wanting to ride for the team. and a team who will put on a show just as good in racing terms as some premier meetings.. yes you wont get some of the top riders there but that hasnt shown to be a factor in getting people through the door.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 ask Eastbourne or Birmingham if they are content in the NL after losing money hand over fist in the EL NL offers lower wages to payout , less traveling and a chance to make some money. I personally hope that Plymouth go in to the. NL and start a new era for Plymouth. Of course your assuming Eastbourne and Birmingham pay normal NL pay rates, my information is Ellis is paid well above that which possibly explains his reluctance to do PL. I rather suspect that like a lot of the more successful teams in any of the leagues, they pay a little more than the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torpointfanatic22 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Plymouth has struggled to break even in the PL because quite simply they have tried to survive purely on gate receipts and a few people sponsoring heats. That isn't enough. Many teams in the league have struggled for crowds over the years and its commercial revenue (or a rich owner) that has enabled these clubs to survive. Plymouth's crowds were falling before we went PL, I've said it before and i'll say it again. The club could survive in the PL on it's current crowds but to do so it needs a promoter and a team of people to commercially bring in significant revenue. If this can be secured I think we can survive in the PL. With the greatest respect - I don't believe that can be achieved with any of our previous promoters. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Of course your assuming Eastbourne and Birmingham pay normal NL pay rates, my information is Ellis is paid well above that which possibly explains his reluctance to do PL. I rather suspect that like a lot of the more successful teams in any of the leagues, they pay a little more than the norm. I agree with you but it will still be a much lower bill compared to running in the PL Edited October 25, 2016 by KIRKYLANE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 So if the crowds have deserted the PL Devils, what makes you think they will come back in droves to see an inferior product? Just ask any Cradley Kent Eastbourne or Birmingham fan as they seem to have no problems doing so 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 its speedway and a winning side promoted properly will bring people back but not enough for premier league. It would be enough to sustain PL. but it needs promoting properly, along with plenty of incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzafl Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) It would be enough to sustain PL. but it needs promoting properly, along with plenty of incentives. its already been quoted as there just isnt enough people coming through the gates for Premier League and no one will want to take a huge loss to see if they can get a crowd in.. yes it needs to be promoted properly and advertised properly but how much money would you want to loose while seeing if that can be done.. put your money in and see what happens !! I wish the new promotion the very best of luck in doing just that. raised gate prices of 15 quid a head for premier league verses less than a tenner for national league perhaps people will be more inclined to visit and see what the fuss is about for less than a tenner.. get them back get them hooked get the crowd back to what it once was and then make the move back up..if financially viable people with families just havent got all that disposable income these days loads of places are suffering.. make it cheaper to go and people may come back.. but do it while you are not creating a season of Premier League wages to cover.. and if you are thinking of incentives as in gate prices.. you still have to pay those riders prem wages where does that money come from ??.. the new promoters pockets thats where.. would anyone want to take it on and make a loss staright away and big losses..?? the old promotion have been quoting figures of £2,000 a week... £10,000 a month IN LOSSES... the sooner you get off the its premier league only the better the team will be.. yes its a shame to move down a league but other teams have done it and things have massivley improved and the racing isnt that far off i witnessed some fantastic racing in the National League around Plymouth and would still visit to watch it when I am back down that area. I may be wrong and the new owner keeps it in the Premier League but I hope they have deep pockets and a lot of patience the corwd just isnt there at the minute not saying it wont be in the future but i think National League is the way forward just my opinion of course Edited October 31, 2016 by no name 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Since I lived in Plymouth for a large chunk of my life, I am rather fond of the Devils, and I'd like to see them in the NL and actually running, it would be so much better for them and I think their track suits the NL rather well, to develop young kids in the d!ck of the country 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I do hope that the Devils are back next year ...... the safe option is in the NL,,,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEPHEN 333 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) The problems with Plymouth this year from reading all the comments on here and elsewhere appear to be a problem with the promoter not the product of the racing itself, Plymouth are the current Four's champion's, so success has been achieved in that department, hope Plymouth do survive under a new promotion team, to come to the tapes next year, I look forward to coming to watch them even all the way from Yorkshire to see them at the Boniface arena next year if that is the case. Edited November 1, 2016 by STEPHEN 333 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzafl Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 The problems with Plymouth this year from reading all the comments on here and elsewhere appear to be a problem with the promoter not the product of the racing itself, Plymouth are the current Four's champion's, so success has been achieved in that department, hope Plymouth do survive under a new promotion team, to come to the tapes next year, I look forward to coming to watch them even all the way from Yorkshire to see them at the Boniface arena next year if that is the case. I wouldnt say it was the promotion persay... If you are referring to the show put on then yes but when you dont have a crowd to pull in its hard.. its not the person its what people get from their entrance fee.. people want a winning team its a fickle business if people dont get a winning side they wont come to watch.. fans never really get much involvement with a promoter and from what i saw they never really spoke to the press it was always Lee Trigger who did the paper reports.. was that the problem ?? unsure... lets just hope who ever comes in is supported even if it is Mr Bowden and being in the National League I will say though an 8 man consortium scares me because Plymouth had a consortium before and you will never know who is in charge unless they decide a chain of command as desicions can be hard to be made the last consortium in Plymouth didnt work.. I really do hope Plymouth survive this and prosper.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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