Poole 2017

[SteveLyric2]

So I log on to the BSF for the first time today and the first post I see is Gavan on a Poole thread!1 Quel Surprise!!

 

With reference to the apparent obsession with Kyle Newman that some seem to have, as SS has said, aside from any mechanical/set-up issues, he had a bad injury and a life-threatening illness (sepsis in the groin) which would stop any speedway rider in their tracks (sorry), so it might just be a tad understandable why his natural progress may have stalled a little.

 

But his end of season performances when he was almost back to full fitness and his confidence in his machinery was clear for ALL to see, show that there is more to come.

 

As for his average, as long as it is determined using exactly the same method as all other 2016 EDRs then I don't give a flying fig what average he comes in on for Poole in 2017. As I've already stated, the team building points limit and who MF chooses to recruit for next season's 1-7 will dictate Kyle's starting position in the team - if he's the lowest averaged rider then he'll be in the number 6 or 7 position. If he isn't he won't be - he'll be in the 1-5. Simples.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Skidder1

[stevebrum]

He had two serious injuries in 2016, one life threatening. His PL average is niether here nor there concerning Poole. I believe he has improved and will continue to do so and has a bit more in him yet.

You are entitled to your opinion but if you saw his playoff rides I am struggling to believe you don't think he has improved.

His PL average gives a rounded picture of his season.

So maybe injuries have halted him this year which like I said he has at least maintained his form this year.

But you would like to use his 2 injuries as some excuse as to why he has improved?? You couldn't make it up.

He always raises his game in the play offs, a huge reason why Poole have been successful over the recent years. Something I wholeheartedly applaud.

 

Facts are that Ellis has a higher EDR EL average.

 

As previously stated, I like Kyle. A good honest rider that any team would want in their side.

However to say he has improved this year is a stretch too far.

[ray c]

Don't know why people keep reacting all this rubbish about kyle average he seems to be the most popular rider in speedway at the moment

[Gavan]

So I log on to the BSF for the first time today and the first post I see is Gavan on a Poole thread!1 Quel Surprise!!

 

With reference to the apparent obsession with Kyle Newman that some seem to have, as SS has said, aside from any mechanical/set-up issues, he had a bad injury and a life-threatening illness (sepsis in the groin) which would stop any speedway rider in their tracks (sorry), so it might just be a tad understandable why his natural progress may have stalled a little.

 

But his end of season performances when he was almost back to full fitness and his confidence in his machinery was clear for ALL to see, show that there is more to come.

 

As for his average, as long as it is determined using exactly the same method as all other 2016 EDRs then I don't give a flying fig what average he comes in on for Poole in 2017. As I've already stated, the team building points limit and who MF chooses to recruit for next season's 1-7 will dictate Kyle's starting position in the team - if he's the lowest averaged rider then he'll be in the number 6 or 7 position. If he isn't he won't be - he'll be in the 1-5. Simples.

He had bad injuries we all know that but 2 good meetings at the end of the season doesn't mean he has improved does it. I agree with you he should be in the team but in the main body now on a true average. If ridets like Newman , Steve Worrall, Starke, Wright , Bates and a couple of others are still somehow allowed to ride at reserve its just farcical. These riders are above being EDR level. The top lot of EDR should be the likes of Jacobs and Clegg and then bring in the likes of Wilson-Dean and Hume to be the lower EDR riders.

[LisaColette]

He had bad injuries we all know that but 2 good meetings at the end of the season doesn't mean he has improved does it. I agree with you he should be in the team but in the main body now on a true average. If ridets like Newman , Steve Worrall, Starke, Wright , Bates and a couple of others are still somehow allowed to ride at reserve its just farcical. These riders are above being EDR level. The top lot of EDR should be the likes of Jacobs and Clegg and then bring in the likes of Wilson-Dean and Hume to be the lower EDR riders.

Oh gosh, I actually agree with Gavan! They should move up so the next lot can get a reserve place and more experience.

[phillipsr]

He had bad injuries we all know that but 2 good meetings at the end of the season doesn't mean he has improved does it. I agree with you he should be in the team but in the main body now on a true average. If ridets like Newman , Steve Worrall, Starke, Wright , Bates and a couple of others are still somehow allowed to ride at reserve its just farcical. These riders are above being EDR level. The top lot of EDR should be the likes of Jacobs and Clegg and then bring in the likes of Wilson-Dean and Hume to be the lower EDR riders.

Wilson-Dean Averages far more than Clegg and Jacobs no way he should be below them in a draft

[Gavan]

Oh gosh, I actually agree with Gavan! They should move up so the next lot can get a reserve place and more experience.

thank you for reading my post! I've been banging the drum that Kyle should have a realistic average in the main body as well. Kyle and a few others I've mentioned should move up now. Move the lesser EDR's up and then bring in new ones lower down. Time now for Wilson Dean , Zach and Hume to be number 7's in my opinion. In my mind if Poole line up with Ellis and Newman at reserve it's a joke in the same way that Belle Vue shouldn't have Worrall and Jacobs and Wolves shouldn't have Howarth and Clegg

Jacobs, Ashley Morris, Clegg, Branford , Nielsen, Simon Lambert could all be top of the drafts. Then you could have Wilson-Dean , Zach, Bewley , Hume , Perry, as the lower riders. Time for the old EDR's to move up now

Edited October 25, 2016 by Gavan

[stevebrum]

Wilson-Dean Averages far more than Clegg and Jacobs no way he should be below them in a draft

Isn't he a Kiwi? Had to come up to the PL this year as a 5 because of that so can't see him qualifying as an EDR.

[Sherborne Green]

I think this thread should be renamed The what average should Kyle Newman be on thread.

[SteveLyric2]

He had bad injuries we all know that but 2 good meetings at the end of the season doesn't mean he has improved does it. I agree with you he should be in the team but in the main body now on a true average. If ridets like Newman , Steve Worrall, Starke, Wright , Bates and a couple of others are still somehow allowed to ride at reserve its just farcical. These riders are above being EDR level. The top lot of EDR should be the likes of Jacobs and Clegg and then bring in the likes of Wilson-Dean and Hume to be the lower EDR riders.

Wherever Kyle rides in the Poole 1-7 next year is relevant to this thread.

 

All these references to other 2015/16 EDRs is absolutely irrelevant to Poole 2017 as at best (or worst) the EDR system will be dropped or dramatically changed to allow only one per EL team. And quite right too - who wants to see more 'wobblers' (no disrespect intended) in the EL? Their place is in the NL/PL until they are proved competent for the top league.

 

You see what you've done now - even got me on a non-Poole 2017 topic.

[Gavan]

Would be a pathetic draft. 75% of those riders wouldn't cut it in the EL.

 

Joe Jacobs is a 0 point rider away from BV.

 

Ashley Morris got dropped for a reason.

 

Max Clegg is a 2nd tier rider at best and not a great one either.

 

Robert Branford is a 2nd tier rider at best.

 

Zach cant ride PL tracks let alone EL ones.

 

Hume would be out of his depth.

 

Perry is rubbish in the EL and has proven that time and time again.

ok then you tell me what you think the draft should be??? Surely it isn't to see the likes of Newman ,Worrall , Starke , Auty , Howarth , Bates , Sarjeant , Ellis, Wright just keep riding in it year after year against riders in protected heats??? How they ever going to get better?? The list of riders I've just mentioned need to step up into a second string role or the point of the draft is daft. Time for those who stepped up like Jacobs and Clegg to move into those roles and free up the number 7 role for others. Not good if the same old riders stay in the draft. You tell me what you want to see

[LisaColette]

 

Would be a pathetic draft. 75% of those riders wouldn't cut it in the EL.

 

Joe Jacobs is a 0 point rider away from BV.

 

Ashley Morris got dropped for a reason.

 

Max Clegg is a 2nd tier rider at best and not a great one either.

 

Robert Branford is a 2nd tier rider at best.

 

Zach cant ride PL tracks let alone EL ones.

 

Hume would be out of his depth.

 

Perry is rubbish in the EL and has proven that time and time again.

So they can only improve then!

[Joe Beevers]

thank you for reading my post! I've been banging the drum that Kyle should have a realistic average in the main body as well. Kyle and a few others I've mentioned should move up now. Move the lesser EDR's up and then bring in new ones lower down. Time now for Wilson Dean , Zach and Hume to be number 7's in my opinion. In my mind if Poole line up with Ellis and Newman at reserve it's a joke in the same way that Belle Vue shouldn't have Worrall and Jacobs and Wolves shouldn't have Howarth and CleggJacobs, Ashley Morris, Clegg, Branford , Nielsen, Simon Lambert could all be top of the drafts. Then you could have Wilson-Dean , Zach, Bewley , Hume , Perry, as the lower riders. Time for the old EDR's to move up now

I think you have missed the point on EDR.

 

My thoughts were it's about rider progession and improvement. That doesn't mean one or two seasons of a rider putting a point on his average but it also helps any young British riders to step to the next level and try and get to ride constantly abroad.

 

Why just throw a load of young riders like Bewley and Branford into the deepend where they are not going to make the money especially riding against riders like Bjarne Pedersen for example.

 

Isn't this the point of the Premier League is to nurture this type of rider as soon as they have got out of the National League otherwise what is the point of a Premier League.

 

Besides, I agree with Gater1 and say most these riders going to an odd track like Lakeside or Wolves would hardly manage a point and than you have the money teams buying the better reserves in like Poole etc and that's 9 rides x 2 without a point especially if your replaced by the other slightly better reserve.

 

I think it's good for riders like Paul Starke and Josh Auty to keep progressing financially as well rather than struggling for points in No 2 and 4 slots.

[LisaColette]

thank you for reading my post! I've been banging the drum that Kyle should have a realistic average in the main body as well. Kyle and a few others I've mentioned should move up now. Move the lesser EDR's up and then bring in new ones lower down. Time now for Wilson Dean , Zach and Hume to be number 7's in my opinion. In my mind if Poole line up with Ellis and Newman at reserve it's a joke in the same way that Belle Vue shouldn't have Worrall and Jacobs and Wolves shouldn't have Howarth and Clegg

Jacobs, Ashley Morris, Clegg, Branford , Nielsen, Simon Lambert could all be top of the drafts. Then you could have Wilson-Dean , Zach, Bewley , Hume , Perry, as the lower riders. Time for the old EDR's to move up now

I always read your posts Gavan! I may roll my eyes at a lot of them but I always read them

[Gavan]

Last season reserves held the key and that needs to be stopped. Poole got where they did because of Ellis and Newman as (Holder apart) the rest were mediocre. I do still see an argument for Ellis to be EDR as it was his first season but surely he to is ready for a second string role as he to like Newman should average 6 in the Premier

I think you have missed the point on EDR.

My thoughts were it's about rider progession and improvement. That doesn't mean one or two seasons of a rider putting a point on his average but it also helps any young British riders to step to the next level and try and get to ride constantly abroad.

Why just throw a load of young riders like Bewley and Branford into the deepend where they are not going to make the money especially riding against riders like Bjarne Pedersen for example.

Isn't this the point of the Premier League is to nurture this type of rider as soon as they have got out of the National League otherwise what is the point of a Premier League.

Besides, I agree with Gater1 and say most these riders going to an odd track like Lakeside or Wolves would hardly manage a point and than you have the money teams buying the better reserves in like Poole etc and that's 9 rides x 2 without a point especially if your replaced by the other slightly better reserve.

I think it's good for riders like Paul Starke and Josh Auty to keep progressing financially as well rather than struggling for points in No 2 and 4 slots.

missed the point lol. It's about improvement, what more could the likes of Auty and Starke learn from riding in protected heats??? These guys earn good money as heat leaders in the Premier so surely they would want to better themselves in a second string role.

Plus the reserves should be British as well and the number 7 NEVER allowed to move up which would stop the nonsense of Pedersen and Kurtz (gp rider and Aussie champ) from riding down there

[Joe Beevers]

Last season reserves held the key and that needs to be stopped. Poole got where they did because of Ellis and Newman as (Holder apart) the rest were mediocre. I do still see an argument for Ellis to be EDR as it was his first season but surely he to is ready for a second string role as he to like Newman should average 6 in the Premiermissed the point lol. It's about improvement, what more could the likes of Auty and Starke learn from riding in protected heats??? These guys earn good money as heat leaders in the Premier so surely they would want to better themselves in a second string role.

It's actually more in regards to financial improvement than on track as there isn't a nig difference between riding in the EL than the PL except for an out an out number one like Jonsson or Holder who you are unlikely to beat, so your racing the same riders i.e Cook, Lambert, Tungate etc so there isn't much to learn.

 

The only way they can learn on track is if they ride abroad where shale and track size is different.

 

The point of them riding in two leagues is financials and maybe slightly set up education.

 

I think Adam Ellis has made a really smart move riding National and Elite League because winning races gives you confidence and greater financial rewards and he has taken that NL form and kept it going with his EL form.

[stevebrum]

Last season reserves held the key and that needs to be stopped.

However there is nothing new about reserves being the key riders. I'd struggle to name a season in recent history where a reserve (including the old 4 point foreign ringers which has thankfully been halted) hasn't held the key to success at the end of the season.

The only difference is the way the EDR has been adapted meaning some teams have had an advantage due to having invested in youth.

I had no issue with that as it rewards EL teams for investing in the future which is something I applaud and the likes of Kings Lynn and Poole have richly been rewarded for that over the 3 seasons, rightly so.

 

Now we are in a very different position. Quite a few have been on it for 3 seasons and have progressed into the main team so surely those riders have no outlived the need to be on it??

 

What would be the point of riders who have a proven ability to mix it with true EL standard riders to be given another year as a reserve? ? Wasn't the point of changing the rules this season to allow these riders 'test their abilities' at a higher level to see who can mix it for the future?? Of course it was!

 

Will the likes of Worrall, Newman, Ellis be scoring big points in the main body of the team instead of in reserve?? Of course not. That is part of making slow progress.

 

The thing that complicates the whole thing is the now flawed EL average system.

Protected heats for reserves have given them an inflated average, heat leaders have much lower averages for their abilities because of the tougher race programme and rolling averages have altered a true average out of all recognition. Likewise some riders have had an easier ride as a second string.

 

There has to be a big shake up of the system including seriously looking at the way averages are calculated. The way they sort the reserves/draft system is going to be key again and hopefully fairness will prevail. However I doubt it.

[Bald Bloke]

If a PL rider does a full season in the Elite they should keep their EL av next season.Not go by their PL av

[Hodgy]

If a PL rider does a full season in the Elite they should keep their EL av next season.Not go by their PL av

Sounds far too logical.

[Wolfsbane]

However there is nothing new about reserves being the key riders. I'd struggle to name a season in recent history where a reserve (including the old 4 point foreign ringers which has thankfully been halted) hasn't held the key to success at the end of the season.

The only difference is the way the EDR has been adapted meaning some teams have had an advantage due to having invested in youth.

I had no issue with that as it rewards EL teams for investing in the future which is something I applaud and the likes of Kings Lynn and Poole have richly been rewarded for that over the 3 seasons, rightly so.

 

Now we are in a very different position. Quite a few have been on it for 3 seasons and have progressed into the main team so surely those riders have no outlived the need to be on it??

 

What would be the point of riders who have a proven ability to mix it with true EL standard riders to be given another year as a reserve? ? Wasn't the point of changing the rules this season to allow these riders 'test their abilities' at a higher level to see who can mix it for the future?? Of course it was!

 

Will the likes of Worrall, Newman, Ellis be scoring big points in the main body of the team instead of in reserve?? Of course not. That is part of making slow progress.

 

The thing that complicates the whole thing is the now flawed EL average system.

Protected heats for reserves have given them an inflated average, heat leaders have much lower averages for their abilities because of the tougher race programme and rolling averages have altered a true average out of all recognition. Likewise some riders have had an easier ride as a second string.

 

There has to be a big shake up of the system including seriously looking at the way averages are calculated. The way they sort the reserves/draft system is going to be key again and hopefully fairness will prevail. However I doubt it.

Strangely we seemed to manage without this year