phillipsr Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 No one in the past few posts has mentioned that Kyle has improved as an edr rider. Other riders have been mentioned but not Newman. Has he not improved as an edr? Kyle on 3.79 is about right. He spent more or less the whole season at reserve so was racing against riders of a similar standard. Yes he was beating them as well, so he was one of the better edr riders no doubt about it. But up in the team he struggled in general. He will probably be slightly disappointed in his progression in 2016 but he had two time outs, one life threatening so really he did better than tread water, But in the PL he was racing against other heat leaders and only acheived a 6.3 average. A much clearer reading of his worth. Some have pointed to beating Woffinden from the back around Monmore. It was a fantastic performance. But 9 times out of ten that wouldn't happen. The same equation must be used across the board for all edr riders. You can't single out certain riders because you think they might do better and lumber them with a higher average. As all are Brits the bspa should look favourably on them all. Give all edr's a 3.5 starting average for next season so that none are left by the wayside when it comes to team building averages. No I don't think he has as proven by the fact he's looking at fourth year as an EDR, Never improved in the PL either. He's one of the best EDR but then that's mostly NL riders so no surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbee Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 No one in the past few posts has mentioned that Kyle has improved as an edr rider. Other riders have been mentioned but not Newman. Has he not improved as an edr? Kyle on 3.79 is about right. He spent more or less the whole season at reserve so was racing against riders of a similar standard. Yes he was beating them as well, so he was one of the better edr riders no doubt about it. But up in the team he struggled in general. He will probably be slightly disappointed in his progression in 2016 but he had two time outs, one life threatening so really he did better than tread water, But in the PL he was racing against other heat leaders and only acheived a 6.3 average. A much clearer reading of his worth. Some have pointed to beating Woffinden from the back around Monmore. It was a fantastic performance. But 9 times out of ten that wouldn't happen. The same equation must be used across the board for all edr riders. You can't single out certain riders because you think they might do better and lumber them with a higher average. As all are Brits the bspa should look favourably on them all. Give all edr's a 3.5 starting average for next season so that none are left by the wayside when it comes to team building averages. You miss the point edr riders from the past three seasons should move up and be replaced by lesser riders to give them a chance .If a rider has not improved after three seasons in the edr they should move aside to let someone else have ago you can't be a edr all your career surely 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillipsr Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) For the past 3 seasons I would say he has been the outstanding EDR rider and has beaten quality riders from the opening season. But has he improved?? In 3 years minimal at best. His PL average has barely changed and in fact gone backwards which if you look at the bigger picture it's difficult to argue he has massively improved. Riders who definetly have tho I'd say ... Steve Worrall - was a struggling PL reserve/ NL standard at best 4 years ago then had a break thru year and has kicked on since overtaking his brother who was a PL heat leader at the time and threatening an EL breakthrough also. Since the draft he has gone from strength to strength and has broken out the reserve berth for a large portion of this season. Jason Garrity - deemed himself to good to be an EDR and stayed in the 1-5 albeit due to poor performing reserves but can still be considered a success and a route the likes of Ellis, Worrall, Newman should follow. Has established himself as a true PL heat leader. Paul Starke - since his selection for Poole last year he too has stepped up in performance. Was excellent back up to Kyle and made big improvements in the PL too. He has Continued that level this season establishing himself in the PL whilst has the higher EDR average over the much more experienced Auty. Adam Ellis - why he hadn't concentrated on PL instead of NL is baffling but has been an equal to Kyle in reserve for Poole and actually finishes the season with a higher EDR average. Even more amazing considering he only has NL racing as back up. Josh Bates - has improved year on year and backed up by a much improved season in the PL by establishing himself as a main team PL rider. James Sarjeant - has improved from last season to this more from PL perspective. Lewis Rose - slight improvement and has stepped out the shadow of Kerr. Max Clegg - improvement year on year and this must be his best year in the sport. Took a while to get going in the EL but had some outstanding moments. The rest haven't really kicked on. Howarth has been hit and miss and hasn't really improved that much other than an improved season in the PL. Wright has been steady without much improvement either way. Kerr has done well to come back from injury so not expecting to do too much. Auty has been a disappointment whilst Nelsien has stayed similar level. Kyle would easily be the best of the rest. But did they improve as they would of anyway without EDR id argue Garrity, Ellis, Bates, Sarjent, Rose and Clegg have all improved as much as if the draft didn't exist, Edited October 18, 2016 by phillipsr 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Adam Ellis - why he hadn't concentrated on PL instead of NL is baffling but has been an equal to Kyle in reserve for Poole and actually finishes the season with a higher EDR average. Even more amazing considering he only has NL racing as back up. Not really baffling if my information is right, all to do with what Eastbourne are paying him. Some riders are just happy to ride and earn good money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 think its about time newman started at number 2 for poole . and grabbed the bull by the horns for the next stage of development. instead of taking easy wages in reserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poole keith Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 he has to ride where the averages dictate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 But did they improve as they would of anyway without EDR id argue Garrity, Ellis, Bates, Sarjent, Rose and Clegg have all improved as much as if the draft didn't exist, I'd argue that the EDR has assisted in that progress. Extra racing equals more natural progress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) No one in the past few posts has mentioned that Kyle has improved as an edr rider. Other riders have been mentioned but not Newman. Has he not improved as an edr? Kyle on 3.79 is about right. He spent more or less the whole season at reserve so was racing against riders of a similar standard. Yes he was beating them as well, so he was one of the better edr riders no doubt about it. But up in the team he struggled in general. He will probably be slightly disappointed in his progression in 2016 but he had two time outs, one life threatening so really he did better than tread water, But in the PL he was racing against other heat leaders and only acheived a 6.3 average. A much clearer reading of his worth. Some have pointed to beating Woffinden from the back around Monmore. It was a fantastic performance. But 9 times out of ten that wouldn't happen. The same equation must be used across the board for all edr riders. You can't single out certain riders because you think they might do better and lumber them with a higher average. As all are Brits the bspa should look favourably on them all. Give all edr's a 3.5 starting average for next season so that none are left by the wayside when it comes to team building averages. Kyles improvement has been marginal at best. When you look at Steve Worrall and Jason Garrity they have left Newman a fair way behind. And to be fair i think Ellis will as well Paul Starke has also improved and is as good if not better than Newman. I would rank Newman in the same bracket as Auty really as not really kicking on. You say he had injuries so that held him back a bit. Ok then thats fair enough but if we saw the real Newman in the play offs where he was sensational then you must see how any average below 4 would be farcical I like the way you say 3.79 is about right then say he spent basically the whole season at reserve??? Well he averaged 5.52 from that reserve position yet somehow you think he should have that reduced down??? You make no sense! Granted he spent a few meetings in the top 5 so use a calculation to bring it down to say 5. Would love to know how you get to the thought that a rider averages 5.52 , is improving (so you say) yet should have his average reduced by over 1.5 points to race against the riders he beat last season! How on earth does that make any sense Edited October 18, 2016 by Gavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Not really baffling if my information is right, all to do with what Eastbourne are paying him. Some riders are just happy to ride and earn good money. Likewise heard the same rumour from reliable source. Can't fault the lad for going where the money is just thought the challenge of the PL would have given him a better challenge. Just goes to prove that by his EL showings he could quite easily be a heat leader at that level. Just wonder what his average would be if he chooses that route next year?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I think everyone has been saying that the same equation should be applied to all EDRs - based on their EL performances. You cannot, however, give them all the same average as this doesn't take account of their ability (as you well know). As an example, a team could field Newman and Bates while another may have to have Clegg and Sarjeant - I think even you can see the imbalance there. Correct how on earth can they all have the same average?? Clegg and Newman similar? Not in a million years. Clegg 3.5 and then Newman a 5.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans fan Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 it says it all about the elite league when there's bickering about a average prem rider at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Kyles improvement has been marginal at best. When you look at Steve Worrall and Jason Garrity they have left Newman a fair way behind. And to be fair i think Ellis will as well Paul Starke has also improved and is as good if not better than Newman. I would rank Newman in the same bracket as Auty really as not really kicking on. You say he had injuries so that held him back a bit. Ok then thats fair enough but if we saw the real Newman in the play offs where he was sensational then you must see how any average below 4 would be farcical I like the way you say 3.79 is about right then say he spent basically the whole season at reserve??? Well he averaged 5.52 from that reserve position yet somehow you think he should have that reduced down??? You make no sense! Granted he spent a few meetings in the top 5 so use a calculation to bring it down to say 5. Would love to know how you get to the thought that a rider averages 5.52 , is improving (so you say) yet should have his average reduced by over 1.5 points to race against the riders he beat last season! How on earth does that make any sense Glad you mentioned Paul Starke, totally agree his progression is excellent this year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 This thread is hilarious. Some are saying Newman hasn't improved, but if he has it is marginal. But he hasn't improved as much as Starke, Bates etc and he should therefore have a 5+ average! I doubt there is a Poole fan out there, with the odd weird exception, who wouldn't want Kyle in the 2017 lineup. But if he hasn't improved why would we want him in the team? Lots of strange thinking here. Some say he should be in the top 5, but like someone else has said, averages dictate riding positions and Kyle is likely to be at reserve next season, especially so now that it seems edr is being dropped. Surely having a rider many non Poole fans think hasn't improved over the last three years, is detremental to Poole's 2017 title ambitions? I mean, he has gone backwards in the PL so why are non Poole fans bothered? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) This thread is hilarious. Some are saying Newman hasn't improved, but if he has it is marginal. But he hasn't improved as much as Starke, Bates etc and he should therefore have a 5+ average! I doubt there is a Poole fan out there, with the odd weird exception, who wouldn't want Kyle in the 2017 lineup. But if he hasn't improved why would we want him in the team? Lots of strange thinking here. Some say he should be in the top 5, but like someone else has said, averages dictate riding positions and Kyle is likely to be at reserve next season, especially so now that it seems edr is being dropped. Surely having a rider many non Poole fans think hasn't improved over the last three years, is detremental to Poole's 2017 title ambitions? I mean, he has gone backwards in the PL so why are non Poole fans bothered? The big problem in the Elite League, is when we get overprotective about young British Riders....... We say things like "lets have 2 young drafted British kids at reserve, they stay there all season, fine for the club's that got good ones, less so for the club's that got the poor ones.... So, we do the same again the second yr, but allow some to stay where they are, move some on, and introduce a couple of new ones... Year 3, because of the protected rides, most have not improved by riding in the most, the same riders last 2 yrs, so we go with in yr 3 they can move out of reserve, of at least one of them can, and because of that system in yr 2 there's no true British EL second strings around, so when a young British reserve does make it into the main body, you end up with a ringer foreigner 2nd string dropping into reserve!! And there have been examples at Poole, Swindon, Leicester and Wolves of this and it blows the having 2 Brits at reserve out the water!! If you say next season, all EL club's have to track 2 British under 20, or 21 say at reserve, the only way to keep that true is track 2 kids, that will stay there and improve, but keep em there all season, get rid of heat 12 as a protected heat and just keep the 1-5 averages grouped seperately from the reserves..... Or bin the 2 young Brits idea at reserve altogether, and go back to how it was, pre draft ideas.... Edited October 18, 2016 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Can we please stop all this EDR carp on this Poole 2017 thread - its totally irrelevant!! Thanks. :-) ;-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Can we please stop all this EDR carp on this Poole 2017 thread - its totally irrelevant!! Thanks. :-) ;-) how many more pages are we going to have of this rubbish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 how many more pages are we going to have of this rubbish I agree. 1. This should be about what riders we want for next season. 2. How we can improve Poole speedway. Please a better website and an APP. We are the biggest and most successful British speedway. They call us the Man united of speedway we need to be trend setters. I don't care if you says its not worth it. I am 18 and we need an app to really connect with young fans. 3. Who cares about Kyle's point limit he is going to be in team next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 What about a team of Lindback, Newman, Batchelor, Gomolski, Andersen, J Holder, B Kurtz If Lindback can't do more than one meeting then he can be replaced by KK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishRoundabout Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Can we please stop all this EDR carp on this Poole 2017 thread - its totally irrelevant!! Thanks. :-) ;-) Carp? Got the fishing rod out again Skidder? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 This thread is hilarious. Some are saying Newman hasn't improved, but if he has it is marginal. But he hasn't improved as much as Starke, Bates etc and he should therefore have a 5+ average! I doubt there is a Poole fan out there, with the odd weird exception, who wouldn't want Kyle in the 2017 lineup. But if he hasn't improved why would we want him in the team? Lots of strange thinking here. Some say he should be in the top 5, but like someone else has said, averages dictate riding positions and Kyle is likely to be at reserve next season, especially so now that it seems edr is being dropped. Surely having a rider many non Poole fans think hasn't improved over the last three years, is detremental to Poole's 2017 title ambitions? I mean, he has gone backwards in the PL so why are non Poole fans bothered? Come on Steve it's obvious why he hasn't improved his average in the Premier League & I bet he wasn't out of pocket doing so😉😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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