mikebv Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Would you trust certain promotions to stick to the agreed points monies??!!That for me would be where the SCB would need to be strong.. And maybe all salaries paid from a central fund that they control? In the absence of the so obviously required independent body to administer the sport, (that all 'proper sports' have), it is time that the SCB actually started to help sort the mess out and this could be a way of doing so? Any sponsorship should of course still be allowed to top up any riders income, however if no 'superstars' exist there wouldnt be the temptation to do 'anything dodgy' to attract certain riders because there would be no real on track benefit as (hopefully) the spread from Number One to Number Five isnt as wide as currently exists from One to Seven in a seven rider structure.. Super League has proven a salary cap can work with clear consequence already used against any team trying to get round it. The success of which now brings promotion and relegation again as the gap between both leagues (once enormous) has now been closed to close to parity. The Poles lets face it are not targeting the 'second, third and fourth tier' riders anyway when they have made their new rule, as there are loads of Polish riders already at that level with more coming through. So let them have the 'superstars' and over here, no longer run a seasons worth of ever changing fixture lists full of select teams, (which inevitably encourage accusations of being 'Mickey Mouse' with a lack of integrity) to accommodate their participation.. Give the 'non superstars' the chance to earn good money over here by DU'ing and then let them ride in wherever else they can. (But their GB contract must be met 100%) 10 riders per match with possibly not much more than a 2 point difference in average from 'best to worst', all of whom have a chance to earn good money by priortising GB? Worth a punt surely? Edited October 18, 2016 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Would you trust certain promotions to stick to the agreed points monies??!! It's an easy thing to get around. You just get sponsor's to pay riders the extra wages instead of sponsors putting money into the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 British and Commonwealth Riders. 1st half - 13 heat team competition ( 5 riders/team) 2nd half - individual competition for British Championship points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 With the defensive/aggressive stance of the PZM and its leading clubs, is it time for closer co-operation between the UK and Denmark? It seems they are the two most vulnerable leagues in this scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I would like to see an end to the 'Joker double points', instead I would give the team manager of the team 10 points behind, the choice of gate positions, until they are no longer 10 points behind. It would give the sport greater credibility to the viewing public, and potentially encourage better racing, as the stronger, often home team, may have to come from behind more often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 I would like to see an end to the 'Joker double points', instead I would give the team manager of the team 10 points behind, the choice of gate positions, until they are no longer 10 points behind. It would give the sport greater credibility to the viewing public, and potentially encourage better racing, as the stronger, often home team, may have to come from behind more often. It always reminds me of Jeux sans Frontieres! You half expect Stuart Hall and Eddie Waring to pop up when anybody pulls their joker out. If a team is not good enough to win, then hard luck. Speedway needs imaginative thinking not childish gimmickry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 How many bloody of these threads have we had over the years, I can't be arsed to post on them anymore. Gotta say some promotions are doing most of the stuff that I hoped would help over the years and these promotions seem to be doing well. I hope they share their ideas and positivity at the conference and together with some other initiatives muted lately perhaps it'll be a good year ahead ........ maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Also, we need to cut loose the the time served draft riders... How? I'm not sure, but cut loose they must be, otherwise they will not develop further in UK speedway, the "draft rider" tag alone, holds them back, wether by the will of "their club" or their "own will" as being in a "safe" "comfortable" zone... They should be promising, inexperienced, young British Riders in the draft, not experienced, "TRUMP CARDS" as some have become, whilst still remaining in the "kids club" end of the team, crikey, there are riders in the draft that are like 20 something's still in yr 2 at school!! Edited October 18, 2016 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 How many bloody of these threads have we had over the years, I can't be arsed to post on them anymore. Gotta say some promotions are doing most of the stuff that I hoped would help over the years and these promotions seem to be doing well. I hope they share their ideas and positivity at the conference and together with some other initiatives muted lately perhaps it'll be a good year ahead ........ maybe Says a poster who has just posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Also, we need to cut loose the the time served draft riders... How? I'm not sure, but cut loose they must be, otherwise they will not develop further in UK speedway, the "draft rider" tag alone, holds them back, wether by the will of "their club" or their "own will" as being in a "safe" "comfortable" zone... They should be promising, inexperienced, young British Riders in the draft, not experienced, "TRUMP CARDS" as some have become, whilst still remaining in the "kids club" end of the team, crikey, there are riders in the draft that are like 20 something's still in yr 2 at school!! 'Promising, inexperienced young British riders in the draft' (if there is one?) should be in the PL. The EL or whatever it might be called in the future is not the place for 'promising, inexperienced riders'!! If the EL is to have any EDRs then it should be limited to just one (as should have been the case when it was introduced) who has had at least two seasons in the PL/NL and who would start at reserve and only be promoted to a 2nd string if proved good enough!! Once the EDR has proved himself capable over 2 EL seasons, he should only then be considered for a permanent EL 1-5 position. If not good enough then he goes back to PL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 'Promising, inexperienced young British riders in the draft' (if there is one?) should be in the PL. The EL or whatever it might be called in the future is not the place for 'promising, inexperienced riders'!! If the EL is to have any EDRs then it should be limited to just one (as should have been the case when it was introduced) who has had at least two seasons in the PL/NL and who would start at reserve and only be promoted to a 2nd string if proved good enough!! Once the EDR has proved himself capable over 2 EL seasons, he should only then be considered for a permanent EL 1-5 position. If not good enough then he goes back to PL. Skidder1, your knowledge of these matters is far greater than mine and I am sure what you say makes perfect sense. But do you not think that all these "complicated" rules are likely to be a real turn-off to potential new supporters and that a clean sheet of paper approach is the only way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) Skidder1, your knowledge of these matters is far greater than mine and I am sure what you say makes perfect sense. But do you not think that all these "complicated" rules are likely to be a real turn-off to potential new supporters and that a clean sheet of paper approach is the only way to go? There is always an ultimate irony when it comes to Speedway rules in that they have to make so many to close the obvious loopholes created by the original rules, but that then leaves more needed to close the loopholes that have been created by the rules that should have blocked the loopholes!! (I think!)😀 On another thread the Polish team building rules have been quoted.. Seven men teams. Reserves must be Polish and under 21 years of age. At least four Poles in every team... And errr. That's it... No assessing averages, no PL/EL conversions, no protected race average v non protected race average, no he got this at second string average, got this at heat leader average and got this at reserve average, no mysterious ailments meaning riders miss meetings so their average isn't effected etc etc etc.. The Promoters do all these ridiculous calculations to try and get every team roughly equal at the start of the year but EVERY season at least one team is 30 - 40 points behind the league leaders at the finish!! (And it's always the team everyone on here highlights as 'cannon fodder' when all the teams are announced)... British Speedway..😂 Edited October 18, 2016 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 There is always an ultimate irony when it comes to Speedway rules in that they have to make so many to close the obvious loopholes created by the original rules, but that then leaves more needed to close the loopholes that have been created by the rules that should have blocked the loopholes!! (I think!) On another thread the Polish team building rules have been quoted.. Seven men teams. Reserves must be Polish and under 21 years of age. At least four Poles in every team... And errr. That's it... No assessing averages, no PL/EL conversions, no protected race average v non protected race average, no he got this at second string average, got this at heat leader average and got this at reserve average, no mysterious ailments meaning riders miss meetings so their average isn't effected etc etc etc.. The Promoters do all these ridiculous calculations to try and get every team roughly equal at the start of the year but EVERY season at least one team is 30 - 40 points behind the league leaders at the finish!! (And it's always the team everyone on here highlights as 'cannon fodder' when all the teams are announced)... British Speedway.. Looks good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) I would like to see an end to the 'Joker double points', instead I would give the team manager of the team 10 points behind, the choice of gate positions, until they are no longer 10 points behind. It would give the sport greater credibility to the viewing public, and potentially encourage better racing, as the stronger, often home team, may have to come from behind more often.Cycle speedway do something similar... As you say, it would mean more credibility... Maybe though bring back the bonus point for an aggregate win and do away with the four point/three point/two point/one point situation? No Tac Subs allowed at all (or alternatively both teams can use it once each meeting regardless of score so Team Managers can play a part tactically?) with gate positions staying as per programme in both matches... Maybe instead of a £5k winner takes all for one meeting you could pool both meetings money and have a £7500 for the aggregate winners and £2500 for the losers..? Or maybe even a £10k winner takes all!! If you used a previous posts salaries. If £10k was on offer for an aggregate win a Number Five rider would earn £3500 for two matches if his team is successful and a Number One would earn £5000!! Truly performance related pay.. I am sure that would add some spice to every EL encounter!! (Bet there wouldn't be many riders when interviewed on Sky in the pits not knowing the current score like there is now!)😁 Edited October 18, 2016 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 What I would like is: - after reading the post meeting press release - I am able to say 'that makes sense' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANANAMAN Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) I Would like to see a SIMPLE agreed document drafted after the AGM that has been read ,ratified & signed by EVERY clubs promotion.. ! So we the supporters know whose to blame if it all goes t**s up as per OR who to thank for at least trying to save our sport ...That's all . Edited October 18, 2016 by BANANAMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 There is always an ultimate irony when it comes to Speedway rules in that they have to make so many to close the obvious loopholes created by the original rules, but that then leaves more needed to close the loopholes that have been created by the rules that should have blocked the loopholes!! (I think!)😀 On another thread the Polish team building rules have been quoted.. Seven men teams. Reserves must be Polish and under 21 years of age. At least four Poles in every team... And errr. That's it... No assessing averages, no PL/EL conversions, no protected race average v non protected race average, no he got this at second string average, got this at heat leader average and got this at reserve average, no mysterious ailments meaning riders miss meetings so their average isn't effected etc etc etc.. The Promoters do all these ridiculous calculations to try and get every team roughly equal at the start of the year but EVERY season at least one team is 30 - 40 points behind the league leaders at the finish!! (And it's always the team everyone on here highlights as 'cannon fodder' when all the teams are announced)... British Speedway..😂 There has always been loopholes in the rule book it's just years ago all the competitors participated with a sporting sense of fair play and realised they were just different departments in the greater company that was British speedway. Any smart arse in possession of low morals could take advantage of these happy souls who had previously been aware of the loop holes but thought nobody would behave in an unsporting way, would they. Then along came self confessed cheat Matt Ford and the rest is (a sorry) history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Thumper Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 There has always been loopholes in the rule book it's just years ago all the competitors participated with a sporting sense of fair play and realised they were just different departments in the greater company that was British speedway. Any smart arse in possession of low morals could take advantage of these happy souls who had previously been aware of the loop holes but thought nobody would behave in an unsporting way, would they. Then along came self confessed cheat Matt Ford and the rest is (a sorry) history. Would I be right in assuming that this is, "tongue in cheek"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Can't say ford was the first to exploit loopholes. Got a book ftom the earlyv80s where Ian Thomas says promoters would cone to him and ask him what the loopholes were when they did their team building! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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