g13webb Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 There speaks someone who's never raced while injured. Tried to give it a go a few times myself and not been able to see it through. And there speaks someone who can only see Blue. There have been many riders who have rode injured, but this is not the point. Ford wanted to get better riders in to win the league. Ford thought Lindback would be stronger than Hans and replaced him with a rule that was introduced to safeguard a team that was genuinely short. Not only that, the BSPA gave him a average specifically allowing him to fit into the Poole team.... Now Ford may be able to dictate what meeting Hans rides in the UK, but obviously not abroad. Hans has always had an priority with finance and will still want to earn a living, so it was always expected when fit he would ride. Now this, no doubt, has embarrassed Matt Ford and the BSPA about their understanding of the aforementioned rule, It is so obvious to all and sundry that Ford has pulled another stroke in his addiction to win. If the sport had any creditability and the BSPA had any bottle, Ford would be taken to task for this deception and have those points scored by Lindback deducted from the first leg and make Andersen ride for the remainder of the season. But as we all know Ford can do what he likes and the BSPA will stand back and allow it..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 There speaks someone who's never raced while injured. Tried to give it a go a few times myself and not been able to see it through.I have known riders who have rode through the pain barrier sometimes having to pull out of meetings.But the issue here is ie) why is Lindback only on a seven point average.I also think they were looking to replace someone anyway Woffinden achieved his average by riding Lindback well that is a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 If a rider is declared out for the season then he should be out for the season ie not ride again. If not or if there is any doubt then a signing should not have been made to replace him and guests used instead. It's pretty black and white with no grey in between. Which situation makes a team stronger on paper is completely irrelevant, a fact which seems to escape some people. It's about maintaining the rules and therefore the integrity of the sport, full stop. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 If a rider is declared out for the season then he should be out for the season ie not ride again. If not or if there is any doubt then a signing should not have been made to replace him and guests used instead. It's pretty black and white with no grey in between. Which situation makes a team stronger on paper is completely irrelevant, a fact which seems to escape some people. It's about maintaining the rules and therefore the integrity of the sport, full stop.Does the rulebook say 'season ending injury' or 'long term injury', tbh they mean the same .... I hope we get a PR from the BSPA today regarding the Hans/Lindback situation .. The Bjarne/Tungate situation is of course questionable too. I wouldn't put anything past Matt Ford in his quest to win ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Basically if it wasn't Poole no questions would be asked then 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Does the rulebook say 'season ending injury' or 'long term injury', tbh they mean the same .... I hope we get a PR from the BSPA today regarding the Hans/Lindback situation .. The Bjarne/Tungate situation is of course questionable too. I wouldn't put anything past Matt Ford in his quest to win .....I don't think they mean the same thing at all! If a rider got injured at the beginning of the season and was out for 4 months, that would be a long term injury not a season ending injury though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 I don't think they mean the same thing at all! If a rider got injured at the beginning of the season and was out for 4 months, that would be a long term injury not a season ending injury though. OK - so 4 months is a long term injury then! What about 1 month? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Apparently, the rule was brought in as a safeguard for teams against injury to riders at this late stage of the season, not as a way of strengthening teams.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 (edited) Surely if Poole were just looking to strengthen they would have brought Lindback in for Andersen earlier, like Wolves did with Woffinden. They could have done that. No issue other than the iffy average. People are making fuss about nothing. This is better than using a guest. Edited September 27, 2016 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 The whole issue of bringing World stars back for just the last few matches of the season to try and win the league, has to stop. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 I don't think they mean the same thing at all! If a rider got injured at the beginning of the season and was out for 4 months, that would be a long term injury not a season ending injury though.Of course 4 months is a long term injury, this rule doesn't apply to early season though only for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Beevers Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 This is totally wrong and should not be allowed to be gotten away with although this is a difficult one because the injured rider's so called long term injury has proven short. Now if I was the BSPA chairman, I personally think this would be wrong to let slide and I would consider these options. 1) Pooles No 5 for the rest of the season should be R/R 2) Pooles No 5 for the rest of the season should be no rider and rides can only be taken by the minimum of 3 reserve replacements. 3) All points scored by Antonio Lindback should be deducted from the first meeting and Poole should have to ride R/R for the remainder of the season. 4) Antonio's points deducted and a no rider scenario at No 5 covered by the minimal 3 rides at reserve. What would everybody choose because I think these would be four fair options. I would sway to No 2 or 3 as it is not entirely Poole's fault as they cannot stop the rider riding in Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 (edited) I have doubts re grounds for a retrospective punishment given the facility was already agreed too based on the situation at the time the replacement was made. Poole would surely claim grounds over whether or not Andersen should be riding given advice and info at that time. The thing with such changes is they probably are “within rules” but they are morally questionable and just create total apathy among a lot of people. Edited September 27, 2016 by The Mockingjay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Judging by the number of posts.threads on this forum alone - I doubt 'total apathy' fits the bill at all!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 (edited) While I appreciate partly in jest…even a rough guestimate adding up total contributions over the numerous threads only comes to about 2,000 ish….about 800 of which will likely involve Starman bickering with people, so in reality there isn’t actually that many people care. Edited September 27, 2016 by The Mockingjay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 This is totally wrong and should not be allowed to be gotten away with although this is a difficult one because the injured rider's so called long term injury has proven short. Now if I was the BSPA chairman, I personally think this would be wrong to let slide and I would consider these options. 1) Pooles No 5 for the rest of the season should be R/R 2) Pooles No 5 for the rest of the season should be no rider and rides can only be taken by the minimum of 3 reserve replacements. 3) All points scored by Antonio Lindback should be deducted from the first meeting and Poole should have to ride R/R for the remainder of the season. 4) Antonio's points deducted and a no rider scenario at No 5 covered by the minimal 3 rides at reserve. What would everybody choose because I think these would be four fair options. I would sway to No 2 or 3 as it is not entirely Poole's fault as they cannot stop the rider riding in Poland. Points deducted from first leg. Hans either rides 2nd leg or if unfit they can use a guest/ rr ( whichever rulebook alliws). If Hans declares himself fit but poole choose not to use him, then no facility (I.e. sub 6 pt pl rider) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Judging by the number of posts.threads on this forum alone - I doubt 'total apathy' fits the bill at all!! :-) Really? Posters on here are in the minority, there are far more who have simply walked away and continue to do so every time this kind of thing happens. Surely if Poole were just looking to strengthen they would have brought Lindback in for Andersen earlier, like Wolves did with Woffinden. They could have done that. No issue other than the iffy average. People are making fuss about nothing. This is better than using a guest. Making a fuss about nothing? Seriously? It's staggering how often speedway fans get up in arms about something that is legitimate, then when rules are broken they claim it's nothing. Lindback wouldn't have been interested in joining any earlier or they would have signed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Would have thought Hans would have taken a nice winter on his accident insurance, with such a serious injury and x rays to substantiate his claim, but he probably doesn't need the money, but again, he's never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Making a fuss about nothing? Seriously? It's staggering how often speedway fans get up in arms about something that is legitimate, then when rules are broken they claim it's nothing. Lindback wouldn't have been interested in joining any earlier or they would have signed him. Yeah. Seriously. And I don't consider myself someone who gets "up in arms" about things that are legitimate either. In fact I seem to have a higher "legitimacy" tolerance than a lot of people on here. Poole had the play-offs coming up and Hans got injured. For me, being able to bring in a new rider is a MUCH better option that using a guest. Even if Andersen isn't out for the season, he was legitimately injured and Poole acted quickly to plug the gap. Surely this is more credible than people wondering who is going to be able to use Chris Harris at Wolverhampton. That's a real nonsense. I do have issues with Lindback's average though. I think the "GP riders assessed at 8" was perfectly reasonable and made sense. But bringing in a rider for the play-offs I have no problem with. And, let's be honest, that' what Wolves did too with Woffinden to all intents and purposes. There are, of course, major issues with riders' averages that makes the whole average thing a farce at the moment anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Yeah. Seriously. And I don't consider myself someone who gets "up in arms" about things that are legitimate either. In fact I seem to have a higher "legitimacy" tolerance than a lot of people on here. Poole had the play-offs coming up and Hans got injured. For me, being able to bring in a new rider is a MUCH better option that using a guest. Even if Andersen isn't out for the season, he was legitimately injured and Poole acted quickly to plug the gap. Surely this is more credible than people wondering who is going to be able to use Chris Harris at Wolverhampton. That's a real nonsense. What you believe to be credible or not credible is completely and utterly irrelevant. What is credible is the sport following it's rules. A signing was ONLY allowed for a LONG TERM injury. Andersen's injury, quite clearly, was NOT long term. There is no grey area here. It's blatant. As such the signing of Lindback was an illegal one. In any CREDIBLE sport an illegitimate signing would be ruled null and void any any meetings/matches they had competed in would be conceded. In speedway's case it's by removing a rider's points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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