StevePark Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I could understand someone not turning up if they hadn't been paid, but speedway riders do almost without exception. Hans Andersen wasn't getting paid and said he would not ride until such a time he had been. He was told that if he didn't ride he would be deemed as withholding his services and would be banned for 28 days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 No doubt that will affect a riders ability on track, but it most certainly does not prevent him giving it everything he can. Would want to risk your life for no pay, that's what you are saying he should have done I can understand someone going through the motions and staying safe, after all it is the promotion short changing the fans, by collecting their money and not paying the riders who therefore did not put on a show for fans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Would you turn up and do your best for your company if they weren't paying you? I know I wouldn't, we had to deal with Lasse Bjerre last season dropping his average on purpose coz he didn't want to be at Redcar, and you've gained from that by getting a rider on a 6 point average who is capable of scoring 8/9 a meeting, you gonna say bad stuff about Lasse now? Is it being suggested that Sheffield has not one, but TWO riders who have deliberately lost races - thereby cheating the paying public - in order to manipulate results for personal gain (i.e. securing places in the Sheffield team by unfairly contriving to falsify their averages)? These are serious allegations which the Speedway Control Bureau should investigate and, if proven, take appropriate action. Remember David Layne, Peter Swan and Tony Kaye? Banned for life from professional football and sentenced in 1965 to four months in prison for "throwing" a football match. In his summing up the judge said "I also have to think of the tens of thousands of ordinary citizens who find relaxation in football and watching football. Over the years they have paid their shillings to see a football match played as they thought by experts. For those shillings, they got not a match, but a dishonest charade. It is my duty to make it clear to other evil-minded persons in all kinds of sport that this is a serious crime.” I pay my "shilling" regularly to watch a speedway match. If what you are suggesting is true then I too am paying to see a dishonest charade which, in the judges words, is "a serious crime". If evidence exists that such events have taken place it should be presented to the Speedway Control Bureau. Otherwise people should keep their speculation to themselves. Just one more reason why riders should compete fairly and maintain their integrity with the paying supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Nobody has suggested throwing races. People have just rightly pointed out that anyone unhappy at work will not perform to their best. It might be due to bad pay, bad management or just because you're a cyclical, hateful person. Sheffield have signed two riders who were unhappy last season, if they can make them happy they'll score more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackadder Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 All looking good so far. Just the track to sort out now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The SAINT Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 all walks of life, and in particular sport, are rife with people 'not performing' to their max (due to a range of reasons/circumstances).... horse racing,football,cricket have all made headlines because of this.speedway actually RATIFIES this partly in the form of the 'joker' racers where a rider lets another through for extra points!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thbender Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Nobody has suggested throwing races. People have just rightly pointed out that anyone unhappy at work will not perform to their best. It might be due to bad pay, bad management or just because you're a cyclical, hateful person. Sheffield have signed two riders who were unhappy last season, if they can make them happy they'll score more. Oh sorry, my mistake. I assumed that "dropping his average on purpose coz he didn't want to be at Redcar" referred to an illicit contravention of the rules. I now understand that what the writer meant to say was that the rider concerned "dropped his BEVERAGE on purpose coz he didn't want to be at Redcar". Silly me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cue Ball Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 And all this is based on perception from the terraces without any actual knowledge of whether riders were under performing on purpose, or whether they were underperforming due to inferior equipment due to cash flow problems or if they just had a bad season and were (heaven forbid) actually just trying their best and falling short of the mark. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaramanga Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 All looking good so far. Just the track to sort out now. good luck with that not been the best prepaired track in recent years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neb Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Would you turn up and do your best for your company if they weren't paying you? I know I wouldn't, we had to deal with Lasse Bjerre last season dropping his average on purpose coz he didn't want to be at Redcar, and you've gained from that by getting a rider on a 6 point average who is capable of scoring 8/9 a meeting, you gonna say bad stuff about Lasse now? don't know if lasse got paid or not but what I do know is he was advised by his doctors not to ride this year after suffering that nasty hip injury and as I am sure your aware he destroyed every engine he owned, ending up on borrowed engines because he couldn't afford to repair them.as for dropping his average I don't buy it,riding borrowed equipment and carrying a nasty injury from the previous year is bound to have some effect and correct me if I am wrong did he not have a regular mechanic this year but the previous season he had someone fulltime? I am sure a combination of borrowed bikes/engines, carrying injuries and no regular mechanic would affect the best riders around and the first thing to take a hit would be the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Would want to risk your life for no pay, that's what you are saying he should have done I can understand someone going through the motions and staying safe, after all it is the promotion short changing the fans, by collecting their money and not paying the riders who therefore did not put on a show for fans Actually, what I am saying is that if someone isn't getting paid I can accept that they won't turn up (although Steve's point above is dead right). If they do turn up and go out on the track I expect them to give it their best shot. People have paid to watch them and by sodding about they are affecting not just the promotion but the fans and, indeed, the very future existence of the club itself. They'd also attract a great deal of credit if they carried on in such circumstances. What you are saying is if Sheffield didn't get paid this year, they all turned up but pulled up after the first bend in every race you'd be quite happy (or at the very least you'd accept it). I suspect you would be in a very small minority indeed. understand what you're saying but human nature dictates that if you know you're already beaten before you start (due to inferior equipment) then you're mindset adjusts accordingly. EG/ formula one/ jensen button That depends who you are. In speedway, there are few very worse sights than a rider who simply can't be a*sed when you have paid to watch him. don't know if lasse got paid or not but what I do know is he was advised by his doctors not to ride this year after suffering that nasty hip injury and as I am sure your aware he destroyed every engine he owned, ending up on borrowed engines because he couldn't afford to repair them.as for dropping his average I don't buy it,riding borrowed equipment and carrying a nasty injury from the previous year is bound to have some effect and correct me if I am wrong did he not have a regular mechanic this year but the previous season he had someone fulltime? I am sure a combination of borrowed bikes/engines, carrying injuries and no regular mechanic would affect the best riders around and the first thing to take a hit would be the average. There's an awful lot of crap talked about riders deliberately dropping their averages. If Bjerre deliberately did so last season, it would have cost him thousands. All looking good so far. Just the track to sort out now. Lets hope so, because it was rubbish last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 One the question of Bjerre and Kurtz lowing their averages and not trying for their 2016 teams. Nothing can be proved and no one has any concrete evidence that both riders did. In Bjerre's case their was the on track disagreement he had with Andersen, the Redcar Promotion appear to take the side of Andersen, and stripped Bjerre of the captaincy and handed it to Andersen, to which Bjerre publicly state that he did not plan to be with the club next season and would be looking for another club, and fair enough his heart may not have been in club. Did he not try, well if he was not then why did the club not release him. The Kurtz one I think the blame lies firmly at the Promotion at Plymouth at the time. They signed the riders at the start of the season, and just before the season was due to get underway they then decided that they are broke and cannot afford to run. A rescue package was found, and they came to the tapes, and we find out later on the season that riders are not been paid. Is any wonder that a riders or others did not put in extra effort if they are not getting paid, is any wonder with all of the broken promises from the promotion. In answer to the Halifax Tiger question how would I feel if that was Sheffield, as much as it would hurt as I love my speedway I would walk away. I would not support a team where the riders were not been paid, and I certainly would not blame riders for not giving 100%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenR195 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 One the question of Bjerre and Kurtz lowing their averages and not trying for their 2016 teams. Nothing can be proved and no one has any concrete evidence that both riders did. In Bjerre's case their was the on track disagreement he had with Andersen, the Redcar Promotion appear to take the side of Andersen, and stripped Bjerre of the captaincy and handed it to Andersen, to which Bjerre publicly state that he did not plan to be with the club next season and would be looking for another club, and fair enough his heart may not have been in club. Did he not try, well if he was not then why did the club not release him. The Kurtz one I think the blame lies firmly at the Promotion at Plymouth at the time. They signed the riders at the start of the season, and just before the season was due to get underway they then decided that they are broke and cannot afford to run. A rescue package was found, and they came to the tapes, and we find out later on the season that riders are not been paid. Is any wonder that a riders or others did not put in extra effort if they are not getting paid, is any wonder with all of the broken promises from the promotion. In answer to the Halifax Tiger question how would I feel if that was Sheffield, as much as it would hurt as I love my speedway I would walk away. I would not support a team where the riders were not been paid, and I certainly would not blame riders for not giving 100%. They took Jonas' side because they knew he done nothing wrong at the 4's, and they didn't give Jonas the captaincy, they gave it to Bellego, Jonas was captain at last meeting of the season at Workington because Bellego wasn't riding. I didn't have a problem with Lasse not wanting to be at Redcar, that's his choice, but he definitely wasn't trying his best, he was refusing to ride in heat 15's for us, and turning up with dirty bikes when we had a weeks gap between meetings, and not participating in team talks during meetings. Redcar probably kept him in the team to annoy him because he wanted away so bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PE7Panther Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I pay my "shilling" regularly to watch a speedway match. If what you are suggesting is true then I too am paying to see a dishonest charade.... which, sadly, is what speedway often is...... as most of us realise surely? Edited December 8, 2016 by PE7Panther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike0310 Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 One the question of Bjerre and Kurtz lowing their averages and not trying for their 2016 teams. Nothing can be proved and no one has any concrete evidence that both riders did. In Bjerre's case their was the on track disagreement he had with Andersen, the Redcar Promotion appear to take the side of Andersen, and stripped Bjerre of the captaincy and handed it to Andersen, to which Bjerre publicly state that he did not plan to be with the club next season and would be looking for another club, and fair enough his heart may not have been in club. Did he not try, well if he was not then why did the club not release him. The Kurtz one I think the blame lies firmly at the Promotion at Plymouth at the time. They signed the riders at the start of the season, and just before the season was due to get underway they then decided that they are broke and cannot afford to run. A rescue package was found, and they came to the tapes, and we find out later on the season that riders are not been paid. Is any wonder that a riders or others did not put in extra effort if they are not getting paid, is any wonder with all of the broken promises from the promotion. In answer to the Halifax Tiger question how would I feel if that was Sheffield, as much as it would hurt as I love my speedway I would walk away. I would not support a team where the riders were not been paid, and I certainly would not blame riders for not giving 100%. If you read the speedway star you will see that there was a vast array of creditors owed vast amounts of money by the previous promotion at Plymouth but as the star said surprisingly there was no money owed to riders on there,I will leave that one for discussion on why Kurtz for the last few months was so shocking and the rest of the riders were not.people saying it was all down to not getting paid well he was not riding in the top league so how was he surviving if he was not getting any money was he surviving on thin air? Also I'm not defending the last promotion they were blooming awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I don't think a rider not being paid can be blamed for not giving his all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panthers89 Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I don't think a rider not being paid can be blamed for not giving his all. Completely agree, why give your all when your outgoings are through the roof as you've got no money coming in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stBendTiger Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 If you read the speedway star you will see that there was a vast array of creditors owed vast amounts of money by the previous promotion at Plymouth but as the star said surprisingly there was no money owed to riders on there,I will leave that one for discussion on why Kurtz for the last few months was so shocking and the rest of the riders were not.people saying it was all down to not getting paid well he was not riding in the top league so how was he surviving if he was not getting any money was he surviving on thin air? Also I'm not defending the last promotion they were blooming awful.Kyle Newman publicly stated that he was owed his points money for the bulk of the season at Plymouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike0310 Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 So the creditors report must be untrue because I trust newman implicitly,Ipswich have got them selfs a belting rider there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stBendTiger Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 At the end of the day only time will tell, if the promotion think that any rider isn't trying they will get rid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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