Rayleigh Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 Another gutsy win for the Rockets with Branford at the forefront, a well earned point in heat 13 and a nail biting heat 14 win swung it for the Rockets. When you see a real trier sport just don't get better. Sorry Eddie, your contribution were appreciated as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted September 19, 2016 Report Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Talking to an 'official' post meeting I understand there could be a few questions put to the SCB. Should Bates have ridden for Scunthorpe when he rode last week for Sheffield and the farcical Ht 15 when after Scunthorpe were denied use of PalmToft no other rider was announced. Bates is then put in the heat as replacement for A N Other! Is this really how a team should perform when all around smelt a fiddle going on ........ Edited September 20, 2016 by GWC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted September 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Talking to an 'official' post meeting I understand there could be a few questions put to the SCB. Should Bates have ridden for Scunthorpe when he rode last week for Sheffield and the farcical Ht 15 when after Scunthorpe were denied use of PalmToft no other rider was announced. Bates is then put in the heat as replacement for A N Other! Is this really how a team should perform when all around smelt a fiddle going on ........ I was under the impression you couldn't guest for two different teams at a track within 8 days. As Bates was riding for his team Sheffield last week he was eligible to guest last night. I'm prepared to be corrected. What should've been a cracker was spoiled by the endless reruns and various delays. Battling performances from both teams. Sad to see Cameron Heeps down to the bare bones with his equipment. The heat 15 farce spiced it up a bit. Edited September 20, 2016 by Shads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Talking to an 'official' post meeting I understand there could be a few questions put to the SCB. Should Bates have ridden for Scunthorpe when he rode last week for Sheffield and the farcical Ht 15 when after Scunthorpe were denied use of PalmToft no other rider was announced. Bates is then put in the heat as replacement for A N Other! Is this really how a team should perform when all around smelt a fiddle going on ........ Heat 15 nominations are from top three averages and/or top three scorers on the night. Palm Toft was neither so rightly not allowed in. Bates however was in the top three scorers anyway. Some would argue that the two minute warning shouldn't have been put on until Scunthorpe had nominated eligible riders. Bates was eligible to guest as the eight day rule is for guest appearances as Shads says above. Imagine if Bates had scored that well last week for Sheffield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Talking to an 'official' post meeting I understand there could be a few questions put to the SCB. Should Bates have ridden for Scunthorpe when he rode last week for Sheffield and the farcical Ht 15 when after Scunthorpe were denied use of PalmToft no other rider was announced. Bates is then put in the heat as replacement for A N Other! Is this really how a team should perform when all around smelt a fiddle going on ........ After MPT was blocked, Lewis Kerr was nominated by Scunthorpe and excluded for two minutes, since the clock was counting down and there was no chance of him getting out there in time. There was then a fresh two minutes, with Josh Bates taking a reserve ride in place of Lewis. The rules are a bit daft if you ask me. A nominated race should be just that. About time the rules restricting the use of riders in Heat 15 were thrown in the bin. As already mentioned, the 8-day-rule regarding guests applies only to guest appearances i.e. a rider cannot guest at the same track within 8 days. Bates' Sheffield appearance is immaterial. The rule was amended a few years ago. All the best Rob Edited September 20, 2016 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Talking to an 'official' post meeting I understand there could be a few questions put to the SCB. Should Bates have ridden for Scunthorpe when he rode last week for Sheffield and the farcical Ht 15 when after Scunthorpe were denied use of PalmToft no other rider was announced. Bates is then put in the heat as replacement for A N Other! Is this really how a team should perform when all around smelt a fiddle going on ........ Given the contributions from shads, ben91 and lucifersam (which coincide with my understanding) perhaps the bigger question is why does this 'official' pontificate when they have such a poor understanding of the rules? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 After MPT was blocked, Lewis Kerr was nominated by Scunthorpe and excluded for two minutes, since the clock was counting down and there was no chance of him getting out there in time. There was then a fresh two minutes, with Josh Bates taking a reserve ride in place of Lewis. [e/quote] Interesting that Kerr was the nominated rider as at the end of the 2 minute period both the referee and announcer were saying they didn't know who the nominated rider was as they hadn't been informed so the referee excluded..... nobody. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Interesting that Kerr was the nominated rider as at the end of the 2 minute period both the referee and announcer were saying they didn't know who the nominated rider was as they hadn't been informed so the referee excluded..... nobody. Official referee's programme shows Lewis excluded under two minutes: http://www.speedwaygb.co/16results/rye_house_19.09.16_res.pdf Which matches the conversation I had with Rob G after the meeting, when I asked him who had been excluded under two minutes. All the best Rob Edited September 20, 2016 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits4eva Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Official referee's programme shows Lewis excluded under two minutes: http://www.speedwaygb.co/16results/rye_house_19.09.16_res.pdf Which matches the conversation I had with Rob G after the meeting, when I asked him who had been excluded under two minutes. All the best Rob It was not announced Rob... If it was, I and many others didn't hear it. The ref looked very perplexed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) It was not announced Rob... If it was, I and many others didn't hear it. The ref looked very perplexed too. Live updates (I assume that was Shads!!) were confused as well, which is why I checked with Rob G when I spoke to him. He seems he was only notified that MPT was not eligible with the clock already ticking down, and with no riders ready to go out (riders tend to start packing away once their night is over!!). Of course, it's the Clerk Of The Course in control down the pits, so it's quite possible that the two minutes ran out before the conversation between the COTC and the ref, to notify the ref that Lewis was the named rider. In any case, as the programme indicates, any confusion was sorted out, and Josh Bates was able to take his place as the reserve for the excluded Lewis Kerr. It's a shame that this wasn't announced on the night. All the best Rob Edited September 20, 2016 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandits4eva Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 Live updates (I assume that was Shads!!) were confused as well, which is why I checked with Rob G when I spoke to him. He seems he was only notified that MPT was not eligible with the clock already ticking down, and with no riders ready to go out (riders tend to start packing away once their night is over!!). Of course, it's the Clerk Of The Course in control down the pits, so it's quite possible that the two minutes ran out before the conversation between the COTC and the ref, to notify the ref that Lewis was the named rider. In any case, as the programme indicates, any confusion was sorted out, and Josh Bates was able to take his place as the reserve for the excluded Lewis Kerr. It's a shame that this wasn't announced on the night. All the best Rob Everyone assumed it was a deliberate tactic the rider in yellow not coming out so that Bates had a little breather having had 3 rides in a row... I personally had him pencilled in before he was announced knowing Palm Toft wasn't eligible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Everyone assumed it was a deliberate tactic the rider in yellow not coming out so that Bates had a little breather having had 3 rides in a row... I personally had him pencilled in before he was announced knowing Palm Toft wasn't eligible! I think it was a genuine moment of confusion - it's certainly not the first time a team manager has named an illegible rider for Heat 15 - and quite often the referee doesn't spot it either! The only delaying part came in naming Kerr, knowing he would be excluded, to give Bates time to get his bikes unpacked! It seems daft to me that Wallner (3+1) and Douglas (2) would have been eligible for Heat 15 and yet Palm Toft (6+1) is not. The rule is a bit silly. All the best Rob Edited September 20, 2016 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 It does seem a strange rule when any 2 from 6 can ride in heat 15(3 highest by CMA have poor nights & 3 others are high scorers from programmed rides). A straight rule change at the AGM ............................... Nominated Heat 15 are Nominated riders not eligible riders. Simple. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 It does seem a strange rule when any 2 from 6 can ride in heat 15(3 highest by CMA have poor nights & 3 others are high scorers from programmed rides). A straight rule change at the AGM ............................... Nominated Heat 15 are Nominated riders not eligible riders. Simple. The reason why there are eligible riders, is that heat 15 is deemed to be the classic highlight race to finish a meeting on. In the past, hard up teams and/or getting beaten by many points, put the cheaper riders in regardless, and it was felt by the BSPA that that was a cop out and the fans should see the top orders/scorers instead. Hence the Eligible rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 The reason why there are eligible riders, is that heat 15 is deemed to be the classic highlight race to finish a meeting on. In the past, hard up teams and/or getting beaten by many points, put the cheaper riders in regardless, and it was felt by the BSPA that that was a cop out and the fans should see the top orders/scorers instead. Hence the Eligible rules. It's still a ridiculous rule. There's been instances when a rider has scored double figures and not been eligible for the last race, while a team-mate who's scored a point or two is eligible. Make the nominated race exactly that. All the best Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 20, 2016 Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 It's still a ridiculous rule. There's been instances when a rider has scored double figures and not been eligible for the last race, while a team-mate who's scored a point or two is eligible. Make the nominated race exactly that. All the best Rob To be fair those instances would be rare. Unless the rider that has scored double figures and isn't eligible is a reserve as I believe only points from programmed rides count towards the heat 15 nominations. The point Tsunami raises is fair, however if a team has been humped then their riders aren't going to bust a gut just to make heat 15 a spectacle. I remember Rye House using Rob Smith, who was our number eight and hadn't had a race all meeting in a heat 15 some years back, I'm sure he finished third in front of an opponent too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted September 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Live updates (I assume that was Shads!!) were confused as well, which is why I checked with Rob G when I spoke to him. He seems he was only notified that MPT was not eligible with the clock already ticking down, and with no riders ready to go out (riders tend to start packing away once their night is over!!). Of course, it's the Clerk Of The Course in control down the pits, so it's quite possible that the two minutes ran out before the conversation between the COTC and the ref, to notify the ref that Lewis was the named rider. In any case, as the programme indicates, any confusion was sorted out, and Josh Bates was able to take his place as the reserve for the excluded Lewis Kerr. It's a shame that this wasn't announced on the night. All the best Rob I was right under the refs box. Chris Gay was on the phone to the pits pretty much the entire time from when he didn't allow Palm Tofts inclusion in heat 15 to when Bates appeared on the track. No announcement was made. I certainly didn't hear Lewis Kerrs name announced. Like B4e, I thought it was a delaying tactic to allow Bates and his mechanic a little more time to get ready. It failed miserably. Like some other posters, I'm mystified why the rule exists in the first place Edited September 20, 2016 by Shads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waco Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 Apart from the shananagens before the last race it was a nail biting night for Rockets fans,,The team scraping home in heat 15,,Ride of the night Rob Branford heat 14 the lads an entertainer for sure...,,Personally i have been off line for nearly a fortnight with a line destroyed by the water boards excavations in our road,, And BT definately would not make quick speedway riders,,will they now sue the water board for their costs ???,,,,I want compensation from Talk Talk........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 MPT, for example, on Monday night, is not a top 3 by CMA but is a racer who gives it his all, misses a gate or has a chain break, therefore, is not a top 3 scorer on the night & is not "a qualified" rider. For the past 2 months, almost, he has guested for more than half the EL clubs & PL clubs & has put himself, possibly unfortunately for the Scorpions, in the shop window for a place in other teams choices for 2017. People pay to see riders like MPT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted September 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) MPT, for example, on Monday night, is not a top 3 by CMA but is a racer who gives it his all, misses a gate or has a chain break, therefore, is not a top 3 scorer on the night & is not "a qualified" rider. For the past 2 months, almost, he has guested for more than half the EL clubs & PL clubs & has put himself, possibly unfortunately for the Scorpions, in the shop window for a place in other teams choices for 2017. People pay to see riders like MPT. I noticed he was very non comittal during his centre green interview after your last home meeting when asked about returning next year. It's been said he phoned the Rye promotion to ask about a team place after Peterborough let him go. We couldn't fit him in due to Peter Karger not having had the required 4 home and 4 away due to a rain off at Sheffield. A blessing in disguise really as Rob Branford would've probably gone elsewhere. Edited September 21, 2016 by Shads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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