Poole Sign Lindback

[Steve0]

Is it lunchtime at school?

Interesting you chose to reply to my post rather than the one where SS clearly broke forum rules

 

Oh well - birds of a feather and all that.

[Bleeds Pirate Blue]

How is Woffinden's average false when it was earned two seasons ago?

 

It's false because he is one of the best riders in the world, a x2 World Champion and is currently over achieving his average by 1.50 points per meeting. Did you honestly expect Tai to average 7.03??? Personally I think Woffy is the best rider in the world (perhaps not on form right now, but bigger picture and all that...) and he should be able to post a 9.00+ average if actually trying in the weakened UK Elite League.

 

It's people allowing this kind of BS, including all the times Poole have done it, that make this sport a joke. Which is a real shame, because it's actually quite good.

[BurntFaceMan]

I'm pretty sure this is entirely to do with the change in heat formats.

 

If you take the top 8 riders from 2013:

 

Tai Woffinden - 9.20
Niels Kristian Iversen - 9.12
Darcy Ward - 9.07
Fredrik Lindgren- 8.94
Matej Zagar - 8.64
Kenneth Bjerre - 8.45
Hans Andersen - 8.34
Bjarne Pedersen - 8.12

 

You get an average of 8.74.

 

If you take the top 8 riders from 2016:

 

Jason Doyle - 9.81
Niels Kristian Iversen - 8.99
Andreas Jonsson - 8.78
Chris Holder - 8.00
Krzystof Kasprzak - 7.91
Matej Zagar - 7.55
Fredrik Lindgren - 7.54
Sam Masters - 7.46

 

You get an average of 8.26.

 

So if in 2013 the average of the top 8 riders was 8.74 and a GP rider was assessed at 8.00, that suggested that a GP rider was assessed to be approximately 0.74pts off of the top 8 average. If you apply that same formula to 2016 averages it suggests that a GP rider should be assessed at approximately 7.52pts.

 

So it's clear that based on a like for like approach, a GP rider should be assessed nearer to 7.5pts than the old 8pts, which makes a 7pt assessed average just as reasonable as a 8pt assessed average, as in reality it should be in the middle of 7 and 8.

Basically, a 7pt assessed average is just as fair as an 8pt assessed average. Neither of them are correct.

Edited September 16, 2016 by BurntFaceMan

[BWitcher]

 

It's false because he is one of the best riders in the world, a x2 World Champion and is currently over achieving his average by 1.50 points per meeting. Did you honestly expect Tai to average 7.03??? Personally I think Woffy is the best rider in the world (perhaps not on form right now, but bigger picture and all that...) and he should be able to post a 9.00+ average if actually trying in the weakened UK Elite League.

 

It's people allowing this kind of BS, including all the times Poole have done it, that make this sport a joke. Which is a real shame, because it's actually quite good.

 

What a load of nonsense.

 

May as well say, Hans Andersen's average is false, he's far too close to Chris Holder, nowhere near as good, let's move him to 6.50. Oh dear, Lindback doesn't fit.

 

Woffinden's average was 7.03, because that was the average he obtained over a full season. End of story.

 

Whilst I think it's wrong that Lindback has been given a 7.00, what's done is done, personally I'm just looking forward to the play-offs and some exciting speedway now.

I'm pretty sure this is entirely to do with the change in heat formats.

 

If you take the top 8 riders from 2013:

 

Tai Woffinden - 9.20

Niels Kristian Iversen - 9.12

Darcy Ward - 9.07

Fredrik Lindgren- 8.94

Matej Zagar - 8.64

Kenneth Bjerre - 8.45

Hans Andersen - 8.34

Bjarne Pedersen - 8.12

 

You get an average of 8.74.

 

If you take the top 8 riders from 2016:

 

Jason Doyle - 9.81

Niels Kristian Iversen - 8.99

Andreas Jonsson - 8.78

Chris Holder - 8.00

Krzystof Kasprzak - 7.91

Matej Zagar - 7.55

Fredrik Lindgren - 7.54

Sam Masters - 7.46

 

You get an average of 8.26.

 

So if in 2013 the average of the top 8 riders was 8.74 and a GP rider was assessed at 8.00, that suggested that a GP rider was assessed to be approximately 0.74pts off of the top 8 average. If you apply that same formula to 2016 averages it suggests that a GP rider should be assessed at approximately 7.52pts.

 

So it's clear that based on a like for like approach, a GP rider should be assessed nearer to 7.5pts than the old 8pts, which makes a 7pt assessed average just as reasonable as a 8pt assessed average, as in reality it should be in the middle of 7 and 8.

Basically, a 7pt assessed average is just as fair as an 8pt assessed average. Neither of them are correct.

 

No, what you have shown is he should have been assessed at 7.5, based upon your own logic.

[BurntFaceMan]

No, what you have shown is he should have been assessed at 7.5, based upon your own logic.

 

Exactly, so just like I said, it's incorrect for him to be assessed as either 7pts or 8pts.

 

Also, if you go further and take the top 8 2012 averages into account:

 

Darcy Ward - 9.76

Chris Holder - 9.67

Niels Kristian Iversen - 8.84

Tai Woffinden - 8.80

Fredrik Lindgren - 8.68

Peter Karlsson - 8.61

Kryzystof Kasprzak - 8.39

Hans Andersen - 8.18

 

You get an average of 8.86, which suggests a GP rider should be assessed at 0.86 pts less than a top 8 Elite League rider. If you were to apply that rule to the 2016 Elite League top 8 it would suggest a GP rider should now be assessed at 7.4 pts.

 

Basically, it is clear that with our current league format 8 pts is too high to assess a GP rider as, however 7 is too low. But based on the averages from 2012 and 2013 (just before we introduced the FTR system) a GP rider coming into the league (in it's current state) should receive assessed average closer to 7 pts than 8 pts.

 

So if you want to go with a nice round number, 7 pts is statistically a more appropriate assessed average than 8pts in the current format.

Edited September 16, 2016 by BurntFaceMan

[Bleeds Pirate Blue]

@BWitcher So you think allowing the world's best speedway rider into a weakened league on a ludicrously low average, which he is blowing out of the water, is fine? I am not saying it is outside of the rules, I'm just calling it BS. Simply re-assess Woffy to a more realistic 8.50 (I could just about live with an 8.00). I wouldn't be against seeing Lindback get assessed as an 8.00 either.

[foreverblue]

His is the only true average.

At least Wolves use real averages

Lindback's last average was 4.15 at Belle Vue!

[BWitcher]

@BWitcher So you think allowing the world's best speedway rider into a weakened league on a ludicrously low average, which he is blowing out of the water, is fine? I am not saying it is outside of the rules, I'm just calling it BS. Simply re-assess Woffy to a more realistic 8.50 (I could just about live with an 8.00). I wouldn't be against seeing Lindback get assessed as an 8.00 either.

 

That was his average, as earned on track. It's very simple and neither is it BS.

 

It's when you get into the world of assessing and re-assessing that things become BS.

[Bleeds Pirate Blue]

Any time Poole have signed a rider on a false average we get murdered for it - "he wasn't trying for half a season" and "deliberate average manipulation by XXX".

 

 

As per speedway-stats.co.uk Tai's UK averages have been as follows:

 

2011 Tai Woffinden - 8.38

2012 Tai Woffinden - 8.76

2013 Tai Woffinden - 9.25

2014 Tai Woffiden - 7.06

2016 Tai Woffinden - 8.50 (five matches only)

 

Spot the odd one out!?? Regardless of being legal, it stinks. Use common-sense and re-assess.

 

That was his average, as earned on track. It's very simple and neither is it BS.

 

It's when you get into the world of assessing and re-assessing that things become BS.

 

Okay - I get where you are coming from - the use of assessment. We shall have to agree to disagree on this point. Yes it can be abused, but there are cases when common sense needs to prevail.

[foreverblue]

Nice of Hans to give Antonio his equipment, Van, tools etc helping as much as he can and wishing the pirates well, might even see him cheering us on.

[Susans1]

Could I ask someone in the know this, there is a possibility that Hans Anderson will ride in the European meeting tomorrow evening if he does ride how will this effect the signing of Linback?

[foreverblue]

Could I ask someone in the know this, there is a possibility that Hans Anderson will ride in the European meeting tomorrow evening if he does ride how will this effect the signing of Linback?

He has withdrawn as still unfit to ride.

[Steve Shovlar]

Thing with Woffinden was, he sulked through the 2014 season making no effort whatsoever. It was nothing to do with lack of ability but the fact he didn't want to ride here after signing a contract. It was his way of making a point to the Wolves management.

 

His excuse was that he was tired.

[Starman2006]

Lindback's last average was 4.15 at Belle Vue!

 

Lindback's last average was 4.15 at Belle Vue!

It would have been had he rode one more meeting..

Interesting you chose to reply to my post rather than the one where SS clearly broke forum rules

 

Oh well - birds of a feather and all that.

Now you do sound very sad...

[IronScorpion]

As per speedway-stats.co.uk Tai's UK averages have been as follows:

 

2011 Tai Woffinden - 8.38

2012 Tai Woffinden - 8.76

2013 Tai Woffinden - 9.25

2014 Tai Woffiden - 7.06

2016 Tai Woffinden - 8.50 (five matches only)

 

Spot the odd one out!?? Regardless of being legal, it stinks. Use common-sense and re-assess.

 

With Tai being the World Champion in 2013 & racing GP's Sat, Poland Sun, EL Mon, Sweden Tue + all his Monster & foreign clubs commitments, he, also, had the extra media commitments through being World Champion & he had admitted that it eventually took too much out of him & he needed a break. He was riding at possibly 85-90%, hence his low average.

[BANANAMAN]

Steve Shovlar, on 16 Sept 2016 - 3:12 PM, said:

Thing with Woffinden was, he sulked through the 2014 season making no effort whatsoever. It was nothing to do with lack of ability but the fact he didn't want to ride here after signing a contract. It was his way of making a point to the Wolves management.

 

His excuse was that he was tired.

If NONE of the other clubs in the Play Offs promotions have any problem with the signing of Woffinden & Lindback lets just get on with it ! ..I am sure if anything wrong had been done the other clubs would be all over it like a rash .. In my opinion Woffy makes Wolfs a lot stronger ..but I think there is not a lot in it regarding Lindback ..... Just one question WHO will start the " Cheats Never Prosper thread " ? ( there is not a prize )

[Starman2006]

@BWitcher So you think allowing the world's best speedway rider into a weakened league on a ludicrously low average, which he is blowing out of the water, is fine? I am not saying it is outside of the rules, I'm just calling it BS. Simply re-assess Woffy to a more realistic 8.50 (I could just about live with an 8.00). I wouldn't be against seeing Lindback get assessed as an 8.00 either.

Leave him alone mate, you will never please him.

[Steve0]

 

It would have been had he rode one more meeting..

Now you do sound very sad...

Actually I'm very happy and looking forward to having a great weekend

[OveFundinFan]

I walked in last night, saw the news on this forum that Poole had brought in a GP rider to replace a non GP rider and was very annoyed. Upon reflection - nothing, absolutely nothing that has been said on this forum has changed my mind.

As I said last night - it might be in the rules but its not right.

Not blaming Lindback obviously, not in a way Matt Ford/Poole (although I was waiting for something to happen as the play offs came near), so the blames goes to those making the rules, along with those who approved of them, and those that apply them.

I have seen Hans ride a few times this year, and obviously seen Lindback in all the GPs, and to say they can be classed so similar that AL can replace HA is just so illogical. Same with Tai replacing Joonas at Wolves. I know Kylymacorpi is a long track world champ, but that not a speedway world champ, there is a difference.

 

I have missed just over 30 years of speedway after being a strong BV Hyde Rd fan from the late50's. Went once to the greyhound track and then quit, started watching GPs in 2013 on telly and live at Cardiff, went to the new BV NSS for the Fri/Sat world cup and loved it.

I was thinking next year to start going to BV again, as when I could afford it - but not now, British speedway is in serious problems...... virtually all of you have been saying that all year on this forum....and I come to agree.

This farcical episode, together with Tai returning to Wolves at a critical point of the season just doesnt dwell easy with me and I am not putting my money where I dont think I am going to get a value of enjoyment for it.

 

Those who are influencing and making decisions re British speedway need there heads banging together, and sort this mess out now.

 

Someone suggested earlier in this thread that as long as punters keep going through the gate of stadiums, paying good money, nothing will change much. Well here is one that was thinking of going back to the sport I love, but nah! not whilst the situation is as it is.

[BWitcher]

Any time Poole have signed a rider on a false average we get murdered for it - "he wasn't trying for half a season" and "deliberate average manipulation by XXX".

 

 

As per speedway-stats.co.uk Tai's UK averages have been as follows:

 

2011 Tai Woffinden - 8.38

2012 Tai Woffinden - 8.76

2013 Tai Woffinden - 9.25

2014 Tai Woffiden - 7.06

2016 Tai Woffinden - 8.50 (five matches only)

 

Spot the odd one out!?? Regardless of being legal, it stinks. Use common-sense and re-assess.

 

Okay - I get where you are coming from - the use of assessment. We shall have to agree to disagree on this point. Yes it can be abused, but there are cases when common sense needs to prevail.

 

You're missing a key thing here.

 

When Poole have had stick it's when one of their riders has gone out on loan and then returned with a much lower average. Very, very different situation.

 

Woffinden rode a full year and achieved his averaged. Wolves suffered from that. There is no comparison.