King's Lynn Stars 2017

[TesarRacing]

Often. No idea what they are saying but they have an infectious way of presenting.

But then I'm a fan of Nigel and Kelvin presenting too.

 

I know and I have no idea what Nige & Kelv are on about either!!

[Bagpuss]

I think the idea of a wireless broadcaster is a good one, someone like Rob Butler off of Radio Naaarfolk could do a good job.

[Agrotron]

Often. No idea what they are saying but they have an infectious way of presenting.

But then I'm a fan of Nigel and Kelvin presenting too.

 

 

The one with the wart on her chin Daria is it, she is pretty good and knows her stuff.

[waiheke1]

if that is the case I can't see who we are going to sign . We will be extremely lucky to sign a no7 on the points we have available that's going to do little more than make the numbers up

Tbh, given the average rider will drop by 15%, you need your number 7 to average 1.7 to be doing their job. They will likely have only 3 rides, so if they can score 1.5 pwr meeting at home and 1 away then they are effectively riding "to their average." I'd say that's achievable for someone like bailey, given that most other teams will have a weak number 7.

[g13webb]

Tbh, given the average rider will drop by 15%, you need your number 7 to average 1.7 to be doing their job. They will likely have only 3 rides, so if they can score 1.5 pwr meeting at home and 1 away then they are effectively riding "to their average." I'd say that's achievable for someone like bailey, given that most other teams will have a weak number 7.

 

I think there are going to be a few surprises when the first set of figures become the level of the reality especially after the loading of 1.4 is taken away from Elite averaged riders. The teams with the majority of 'Premier' riders will stay fairly stagnate to level they started, the season, whereas those teams employing Elite riders , more likely than not, will see their total figure reduced . It will be interesting to see how the BSPA see this in the terms of creating a new points level for future rider changes...,

 

Another query regarding riders and their averages: When we have passed into first new set of points scheduling period and riders need to be replaced for whatever reason, am I right in thinking that all new riders of elite standing will be subject to the 1.4 loading that the other riders were calculated too, at the start.

 

Technically they should be, Because our teams are made up using PL averages, any replacement used, who have no PL scores has to bring his CMA in line with everybody else......

[Daniel Smith]

 

I think there are going to be a few surprises when the first set of figures become the level of the reality especially after the loading of 1.4 is taken away from Elite averaged riders. The teams with the majority of 'Premier' riders will stay fairly stagnate to level they started, the season, whereas those teams employing Elite riders , more likely than not, will see their total figure reduced . It will be interesting to see how the BSPA see this in the terms of creating a new points level for future rider changes...,

 

Another query regarding riders and their averages: When we have passed into first new set of points scheduling period and riders need to be replaced for whatever reason, am I right in thinking that all new riders of elite standing will be subject to the 1.4 loading that the other riders were calculated too, at the start.

 

Technically they should be, Because our teams are made up using PL averages, any replacement used, who have no PL scores has to bring his CMA in line with everybody else......

 

It's all going to be very confusing, one promoter has said (think it was Louis) it will be 4 home 4 away league fixtures (exc KOC) to gain an average.

In the Premiership if a rider needs replacing prior to the 4x4 then the PL or EL x1.4 remains.

once the 4x4 is completed it's 'then as you were', the Premiership will use EL averages.

We could (although not likely at all) have a situation where Somerset's Tungate hits a 9 average and he gets replaced by Sayfutdinov.

What hasn't been mentioned is if a Premiership club signs a Championship rider after the 4x4 and visa versa will there be a conversion required.

There should be because after the 4x4 the 2 leagues are then running different sets of averages.

[foreverblue]

Although I assume Bailey would have been announced by now if he was the number 7, it would be a little ironic that Holder's average was supposedly too high for Poole but you could fit him into what would be a strong side with over a point to spare.

That is because Kings Lynn have a different pool of riders to pick from.

[Starboy118]

 

It's all going to be very confusing, one promoter has said (think it was Louis) it will be 4 home 4 away league fixtures (exc KOC) to gain an average.

In the Premiership if a rider needs replacing prior to the 4x4 then the PL or EL x1.4 remains.

once the 4x4 is completed it's 'then as you were', the Premiership will use EL averages.

We could (although not likely at all) have a situation where Somerset's Tungate hits a 9 average and he gets replaced by Sayfutdinov.

What hasn't been mentioned is if a Premiership club signs a Championship rider after the 4x4 and visa versa will there be a conversion required.

There should be because after the 4x4 the 2 leagues are then running different sets of averages.

 

 

You can bet all you like that one person has already worked out how to fully exploit any loopholes!

[stevebrum]

We could (although not likely at all) have a situation where Somerset's Tungate hits a 9 average and he gets replaced by Sayfutdinov.

Covered by the ruling on replacements only possible till end of July, unless due to injury.

[waiheke1]

 

I think there are going to be a few surprises when the first set of figures become the level of the reality especially after the loading of 1.4 is taken away from Elite averaged riders. The teams with the majority of 'Premier' riders will stay fairly stagnate to level they started, the season, whereas those teams employing Elite riders , more likely than not, will see their total figure reduced . It will be interesting to see how the BSPA see this in the terms of creating a new points level for future rider changes...,

 

Another query regarding riders and their averages: When we have passed into first new set of points scheduling period and riders need to be replaced for whatever reason, am I right in thinking that all new riders of elite standing will be subject to the 1.4 loading that the other riders were calculated too, at the start.

 

Technically they should be, Because our teams are made up using PL averages, any replacement used, who have no PL scores has to bring his CMA in line with everybody else......

I thought it was confirmed that 42 would be the points limit for re declarations.

Puzzled as to why you think pl average based riders will maintain their average better than El riders.

Once the first averages are out, I would assume new riders (with existing El average) would need to come in on something like a 1.25 conversion.

For kl I expect first set of averages to be something like holder 10.5 lambert 8.5 batch 8 Porsing 6 rose 4.5 huckenbeck 5.5 bailey 1.5

Edited January 13, 2017 by waihekeaces1

[g13webb]

I thought it was confirmed that 42 would be the points limit for re declarations.

Puzzled as to why you think pl average based riders will maintain their average better than El riders.

Once the first averages are out, I would assume new riders (with existing El average) would need to come in on something like a 1.25 conversion.

For kl I expect first set of averages to be something like holder 10.5 lambert 8.5 batch 8 Porsing 6 rose 4.5 huckenbeck 5.5 bailey 1.5

I'd go along with them KL predictions, but that come to a few more than 42 you mentioned....

 

Puzzled?? My thinking was the PL rider has an average gained against mostly PL riders, who they race every week in the PL league. so bearing in mind there are not many EL only riders per team, it would be imagined their score would be similar to what they have been given. As the teams were assembled to a 50 pt limit, I cant imagine a team full of PL riders would drop that much... You say a limit has already been decided at 42, then it has obviously been forecast that those riders are going to drop the score significantly. Cant see that. 2 or 3 pts probably, but 8 is excessive.

 

Teams made up with loaded EL averages are a different proposition. They will lose their 1.4 loading and will expect to make the aver up riding against lesser competition. Top riders like Holder, Doyle, Lindgren should make up that loading, but lesser EL riders will find it very hard indeed to make up the difference.. This will show when those new figures become available.

 

I hope that new riders are treated the same as the one's already earmarked to ride. The last thing we want to see is 'Ringers' brought in to fill loop holes that have been overlooked.

[therefused]

I'd go along with them KL predictions, but that come to a few more than 42 you mentioned....

 

Puzzled?? My thinking was the PL rider has an average gained against mostly PL riders, who they race every week in the PL league. so bearing in mind there are not many EL only riders per team, it would be imagined their score would be similar to what they have been given. As the teams were assembled to a 50 pt limit, I cant imagine a team full of PL riders would drop that much... You say a limit has already been decided at 42, then it has obviously been forecast that those riders are going to drop the score significantly. Cant see that. 2 or 3 pts probably, but 8 is excessive.

 

Teams made up with loaded EL averages are a different proposition. They will lose their 1.4 loading and will expect to make the aver up riding against lesser competition. Top riders like Holder, Doyle, Lindgren should make up that loading, but lesser EL riders will find it very hard indeed to make up the difference.. This will show when those new figures become available.

 

I hope that new riders are treated the same as the one's already earmarked to ride. The last thing we want to see is 'Ringers' brought in to fill loop holes that have been overlooked.

There are only so many points in a meeting though, not every team can average 47/48 it just isnt possible.

[g13webb]

There are only so many points in a meeting though, not every team can average 47/48 it just isnt possible.

 

I appreciate that, that is why the 50 pts max to assemble a team to me was miles too high.... It was my believe all the riders CMA were too high, Using false figures from another league was the only option once the protected heats gave out them false averages...

.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

 

I appreciate that, that is why the 50 pts max to assemble a team to me was miles too high.... It was my believe all the riders CMA were too high, Using false figures from another league was the only option once the protected heats gave out them false averages...

.

50 was not too high.

 

With the weighting it was really about 36 'in old money' so actually very low.

 

When the new averages come into force all 2016 meetings drop out of the calculation.

 

42 points is then the crude average for each side for a 45-45 draw (it will be skewed by some riders having 5 rides and others 3 but lets not complicate it too much!)

 

So in reality a drop from 50 to 42 and removing the 1.4 weighting is actually a rise in limit albeit just from a statistical mirage!

[g13webb]

50 was not too high.

 

With the weighting it was really about 36 'in old money' so actually very low.

 

When the new averages come into force all 2016 meetings drop out of the calculation.

 

42 points is then the crude average for each side for a 45-45 draw (it will be skewed by some riders having 5 rides and others 3 but lets not complicate it too much!)

 

So in reality a drop from 50 to 42 and removing the 1.4 weighting is actually a rise in limit albeit just from a statistical mirage!

 

I don't get your calculations. when most teams have only a couple of EL riders the 'old money value' is way higher than your 36. You're getting mixed up with teams having 7 EL riders with loaded averages. we haven't had that for yonks!!!

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

 

I don't get your calculations. when most teams have only a couple of EL riders the 'old money value' is way higher than your 36. You're getting mixed up with teams having 7 EL riders with loaded averages. we haven't had that for yonks!!!

Im not mixed up at all.

 

In 'old money' a 9 point 2nd tier rider would convert to 6.43 but this year have to use the 9. So even a team with 7 old 2nd tier riders adding up to 50 is really still 36 'in old money'

[g13webb]

Im not mixed up at all.

 

In 'old money' a 9 point 2nd tier rider would convert to 6.43 but this year have to use the 9. So even a team with 7 old 2nd tier riders adding up to 50 is really still 36 'in old money'

That's the point, we don't a team with 7, 2nd tier riders. If there were it would be more feasible.... Most teams are only using 2/3 riders with their EL loaded score...the rest are on PL averages that was attained in the PL.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

That's the point, we don't a team with 7, 2nd tier riders. If there were it would be more feasible.... Most teams are only using 2/3 riders with their EL loaded score...the rest are on PL averages that was attained in the PL.

I dont think you have grasped the impact of the multiplier.

 

It was to equalise the comparative figures from each league. Therefore it doesnt matter whether a teams 7 are all former EL all former PL or any mix inbetween.

 

It has also been shown on various threads by those with extensive statistical nouse that barring a minimal number of anomilies (eg Klindt) it was a very good fit for actual performances.

[g13webb]

I dont think you have grasped the impact of the multiplier.

 

It was to equalise the comparative figures from each league. Therefore it doesnt matter whether a teams 7 are all former EL all former PL or any mix inbetween.

 

It has also been shown on various threads by those with extensive statistical nouse that barring a minimal number of anomilies (eg Klindt) it was a very good fit for actual performances.

 

Your reply has given me a good laugh, and the two poster who liked it was so predictable. For your information, I acquired and 'O' level at 15, 'A' level at 17, degree at 20, followed by ONC in Mechanical Engineering at 24..

For the last 40 years I was a Project Engineer where compounded calculations were the order of the day. I have supplied many structural Calculations for building, so please spare me the insults talking about the impact of the Multiplier....

 

Now if anybody has got this wrong then you should first look at yourself. Lets start first with the old CMA figures of the Elite League. Because they were so varied and untrue, it was decided to use the rider's PL average, where possible, as this figure was thought to be a truer reflection of one's ability. ( Fair Comment) Coupled with this decision it was to create a loading that to bring the EL riders, who had no Pl average, into a comparison with the ability of those PL riders. Also taking into account the racing format was changing to make the HL role easier. Taking all these things into the equation, it was decided a loading of 1.4 to multiply the existing EL average to form a comparison with the PL averages.... but only until the first set of new figures become available. ( Not all the rider get this multiplier, only the ones who didn't have a PL CMA) ........ Do hope you're keeping up.

 

1. When a team Manager assembles his team he had 50 pts to play with. If he use 7 riders with PL averages. then he would add their said PL scores with no multiplier to be seen... When the first new set of figures are acquired after 4H and 4A it is expected some riders will score less and the teams points will drop. .. but not that much.... ( a multiplier hasn't been used or changed)

 

2. When a team Manager assembles his team he had 50 pts to play with. If he use 7 riders with EL averages. then he would add their said EL scores and Multiply by 1.4 ( 35.71 EL pts x 1.40 = 49.99) When the first new set of figures are acquired after 4H and 4A the team score will diminish. They will automatically lose 14.28 from the loading they started with but it is expected their CMA will go up to compensate for it..... ( a multiplier was used and now dropped)

 

3. When a team Manager assembles his team he had 50 pts to play with. If he use 5 riders with PL averages. and 2 EL riders, then he would add their said PL scores plus the EL scores multiplied with 1.4 . ( (PL pts x 5) +( EL x 2 x 1.4)) .. When the first new set of figures are acquired after 4H and 4A the team score should diminish. They will automatically lose the loading of the 2 EL riders, but all the riders will count as scored ..... ( a multiplier was used and now dropped)

 

So you see, the make-up of the team has massive implications. Not all EL riders will increase the score by (*1.4). Not all PL rider will drop their scores.

No doubt as time goes, it will all rectify itself when all riders will used the correct averages for the league they compete it We are in a change-over stage where some will win and some will lose, It is the intention to get back to a more realistic situation than it's been for some years....

 

So you see I am well aware of the implications of the multiplier, and I hope I have shown you how it makes a massive difference by the way the team has been assembled....

[Bagpuss]

I liked dontforgetthefuelstapsbruv's post because he is correct and you, not for the first time, are spouting absolute nonsense.