Handicap

[Fromafar]

Reading Tony Jacksons comment regarding Starting positions after tapes incidents,he states the rule change from June,I'm pretty sure when I was at Glasgow recently ,Edinburgh or Somerset match that rule was not applied.Recent Sky matches that rule was not applied. What is the rule then!!

[arnieg]

Go to

 

http://www.scbgb.co.uk/regulations

 

and download supplementary regulation 2016/2 dated 1 June.

 

NOTE - it only applies to heat 15

[Fromafar]

Go to

http://www.scbgb.co.uk/regulations

and download supplementary regulation 2016/2 dated 1 June.

NOTE - it only applies to heat 15

It was not Heat 15 in any of the meetings?

[racers and royals]

It was not Heat 15 in any of the meetings?

The rule is -15m back always goes from gate 4 and positions are shuffled to allow for that- unless it`s heat 15 when the 15 M rider goes off his allocated gate.

Are you saying that didn`t happen ?

Edited September 7, 2016 by racers and royals

[Fromafar]

Go to

http://www.scbgb.co.uk/regulations

and download supplementary regulation 2016/2 dated 1 June.

NOTE - it only applies to heat 15

The point I am making is the riders in the re -run races started off Gate 4 15 mtrs back,not in the position Tony is talking about.

The rule is -15m back always goes from gate 4 and positions are shuffled to allow for that- unless it`s heat 15 when the 15 M rider goes of his allocated gate.

Are you saying that didn`t happen ?

Yes.There is picture in this weeks SS to prove it Edited September 7, 2016 by Fromafar

[racers and royals]

The point I am making is the riders in the re -run races started off Gate 4 15 mtrs back,not in the position Tony is talking about.

Yes.

Please list heats and gates to clarify your argument ? - We can then check the ref`s programme on the BSPA website.

Edited September 7, 2016 by racers and royals

[Fromafar]

Please list heats and gates to clarify your argument ? - We can then check the ref`s programme on the BSPA website.

Ht7 and Ht12 at workington the riders started 15 mtrs back from their original gate positions.The meeting at Glasgow I referred to the rider started off outside gate.The rule quoted above in other post does not state that riders should start off outside gate except Ht 15 in my interpretation though.

[racers and royals]

There is no confusion in the rule book heats 1- 14 the rider goes off 15 m on gate 4 . Only in heat 15 (sup reg 2) does the rider go off his orginal gate 15 m back. Anything that has happened contrary to these rules is A refs cock-up B team managers cock-up.

It was changed for heat 15 to stop a team moving gates in the instance of a close match when one team had the bad gates( 1 and 3) and wanted to get their riders on 2 and 4

Edited September 7, 2016 by racers and royals

[Tsunami]

There is no confusion in the rule book heats 1- 14 the rider goes off 15 m on gate 4 . Only in heat 15 (sup reg 2) does the rider go off his orginal gate 15 m back. Anything that has happened contrary to these rules is A refs cock-up B team managers cock-up.

I think George English is probably one of the only promoters to know the explanation of the rules, as he had to confront and insist this is the way the rule should be implemented. Neither John Anderson, or the ref Ronnie Allan, knew for our visit to Berwick, and George was proved right and it was referred to the SCB. The self same instance happened the following week at Glasgow when the rule was ignored wrongly. George didn't appeal on the day, because the answer to validate his stance had not been issued in a Supplementary, which of course was in the fullness of time. I think if you understand the reasons for the rule, you have a better understanding and certainly the wording explaining the rule was slightly flawed to those reading them. We lost out at Glasgow, but what the hell.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Tsunami

[arnieg]

Ht7 and Ht12 at workington the riders started 15 mtrs back from their original gate positions.The meeting at Glasgow I referred to the rider started off outside gate.The rule quoted above in other post does not state that riders should start off outside gate except Ht 15 in my interpretation though.

 

It doesn't need to as the rulebook already says you go off 15 metres then it's from gate 4.

 

See 15.16 - nothing in the supplementary regulation changes the application of 15.16 to heats 1 to 14

[racers and royals]

I think George English is probably one of the only promoters to know the explanation of the rules, as he had to confront and insist this is the way the rule should be implemented. Neither John Anderson, or the ref Ronnie Allan, knew for our visit to Berwick, and George was proved right and it was referred to the SCB. The self same instance happened the following week at Glasgow when the rule was ignored wrongly. George didn't appeal on the day, because the answer to validate his stance had not been issued in a Supplementary, which of course was in the fullness of time. I think if you understand the reasons for the rule, you have a better understanding and certainly the wording explaining the rule was slightly flawed to those reading them. We lost out at Glasgow, but what the hell.

Are people really that thick - the sup reg clearly refers to heat 15 and actually cross references to it - 15.14.3. I can only assume Refs and certain team managers do not read the sup regs !!!!

[Fromafar]

There is no confusion in the rule book heats 1- 14 the rider goes off 15 m on gate 4 . Only in heat 15 (sup reg 2) does the rider go off his orginal gate 15 m back. Anything that has happened contrary to these rules is A refs cock-up B team managers cock-up.

It was changed for heat 15 to stop a team moving gates in the instance of a close match when one team had the bad gates( 1 and 3) and wanted to get their riders on 2 and 4

So what about the situation at Workington v Berwick .Peter Oakes had an article in his SS Column at the end of May stating that the riders were going to go off their original gate positions instead of Gate4.so I assumed the rule was changing (as happened at Workington) Since I have attended matches and watch matches on Sky that this has not happened so is it the usual misiterpretation of the rule book by the Ref in charge of the meeting.( I recall a sky match recently where either Garrity or Sargeant touched the tapes in heat 1 and went of gate 4 in the rerun.

It doesn't need to as the rulebook already says you go off 15 metres then it's from gate 4.

 

See 15.16 - nothing in the supplementary regulation changes the application of 15.16 to heats 1 to 14

But in happened.

There is no confusion in the rule book heats 1- 14 the rider goes off 15 m on gate 4 . Only in heat 15 (sup reg 2) does the rider go off his orginal gate 15 m back. Anything that has happened contrary to these rules is A refs cock-up B team managers cock-up.

It was changed for heat 15 to stop a team moving gates in the instance of a close match when one team had the bad gates( 1 and 3) and wanted to get their riders on 2 and 4

So the picture of Vissing in SS starting in gate 1 should not have happened?

[racers and royals]

So what about the situation at Workington v Berwick .Peter Oakes had an article in his SS Column at the end of May stating that the riders were going to go off their original gate positions instead of Gate4.so I assumed the rule was changing (as happened at Workington) Since I have attended matches and watch matches on Sky that this has not happened so is it the usual misiterpretation of the rule book by the Ref in charge of the meeting.( I recall a sky match recently where either Garrity or Sargeant touched the tapes in heat 1 and went of gate 4 in the rerun.

But in happened.So the picture of Vissing in SS starting in gate 1 should not have happened?

But it did change just for heat 15 for the reason I put in post 8. Why is there confusion about heats 1-14 ??

[Fromafar]

But it did change just for heat 15 for the reason I put in post 8. Why is there confusion about heats 1-14 ??

Why is Tony Jackson complaining that the rule needs changed because it is dangerous then.Obviosly he and the Ref agree the rule is correct regarding riders going of original gate in Ht1 Ht 14 is valid.Thats what I can't understand the rule appears to be different at each match.Oakes did not intimated that it changed for just Heat 15 his article read that it was for all the meeting.Usual Speedway Rules though.Why is there confusion!

[arnieg]

Why is Tony Jackson complaining that the rule needs changed because it is dangerous then.Obviosly he and the Ref agree the rule is correct regarding riders going of original gate in Ht1 Ht 14 is valid.Thats what I can't understand the rule appears to be different at each match.Oakes did not intimated that it changed for just Heat 15 his article read that it was for all the meeting.Usual Speedway Rules though.Why is there confusion!

The rule is the same for every match. Whether it is interpreted correctly for every match is another matter.

[racers and royals]

Why is Tony Jackson complaining that the rule needs changed because it is dangerous then.Obviosly he and the Ref agree the rule is correct regarding riders going of original gate in Ht1 Ht 14 is valid.Thats what I can't understand the rule appears to be different at each match.Oakes did not intimated that it changed for just Heat 15 his article read that it was for all the meeting.Usual Speedway Rules though.Why is there confusion!

He I`m sure wants it changed back to gate 4 without exception- It is dangerous anywhere other than gate 4 however the league title could be won on changing gates in heat 15-It`s not the man necessarily going back 15m but his team mate getting onto a far better gate- what`s the alternative ?

[Fromafar]

The rule is the same for every match. Whether it is interpreted correctly for every match is another matter.

Could you show me rule 15.16 as I can't seem to find it on the link you gave Thanks

He I`m sure wants it changed back to gate 4 without exception- It is dangerous anywhere other than gate 4 however the league title could be won on changing gates in heat 15-It`s not the man necessarily going back 15m but his team mate getting onto a far better gate- what`s the alternative ?

To end it ,what you are saying the situation at Workington should not have happened?thanks.

[racers and royals]

Could you show me rule 15.16 as I can't seem to find it on the link you gave Thanks

To end it ,what you are saying the situation at Workington should not have happened?thanks.

15.16 HANDICAP HEAT RULES (for offences shown in Art 15.3, or permitted by an SR

In Team events, if a rider commits a Starting Offence (Art 15.3) the Team Manager has an

option to either replace the disqualified Rider by a Reserve (starting in the original position) or

nominate the offending rider for a 15-metre Handicap, starting in gate (d).

If Gate (d) is already occupied as a result of a 2nd or subsequent re-instatement then a

Reserve Switch is the only option. Furthermore to permit the 15-metre handicap then:

a) The Team Partner will take gate ( with the opponents taking gates (a) & ©

For a 2nd offence by the same rider in the same heat a mandatory disqualification with

no replacement permitted.

c) If the offence is committed by a TR rider and a Reserve Switch is chosen, the use of the

TR shall nevertheless count as a TR ride i.e. it is forfeited but the Points scored by the

Reserve do not count as double.

d) as per Art. 15.15.7 only the Handicap option is available.

In an Individual event that permits the use of the 15-metre “Handicap” option for a Starting

Offence (Art 15.3, then the ruling allows for multiple use, providing gate (d) is used, then gate

© for any subsequent offending rider

[Fromafar]

15.16 HANDICAP HEAT RULES (for offences shown in Art 15.3, or permitted by an SRIn Team events, if a rider commits a Starting Offence (Art 15.3) the Team Manager has anoption to either replace the disqualified Rider by a Reserve (starting in the original position) ornominate the offending rider for a 15-metre Handicap, starting in gate (d).If Gate (d) is already occupied as a result of a 2nd or subsequent re-instatement then aReserve Switch is the only option. Furthermore to permit the 15-metre handicap then:a) The Team Partner will take gate ( with the opponents taking gates (a) & © For a 2nd offence by the same rider in the same heat a mandatory disqualification withno replacement permitted.c) If the offence is committed by a TR rider and a Reserve Switch is chosen, the use of theTR shall nevertheless count as a TR ride i.e. it is forfeited but the Points scored by theReserve do not count as double.d) as per Art. 15.15.7 only the Handicap option is available.In an Individual event that permits the use of the 15-metre “Handicap” option for a StartingOffence (Art 15.3, then the ruling allows for multiple use, providing gate (d) is used, then gate© for any subsequent offending rider[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

Thanks,so Tony and the Ref got it wrong then?

[racers and royals]

Thanks,so Tony and the Ref got it wrong then?

I`ve known "Jacko" for a long time- maybe he knew the rule and was overruled by the ref !