Do Speedway Promoters Ever Come On Here?

[phillipsr]

Who should be listened to is entirely subjective though. Problem with forums is everyone has different opinions on what would make Speedway great again. How can a promoter cater for a focus group that wants all the world stars back, also wants to go back to 1980 when speedway apparently was great, also want speedway to be more modern and catch up with the times, Also want it to be £10 sport plus many more. We can argue whos sensible (i imagine there would be different lists on who is) but that doesnt make there suggestions any good or feasible

Edited August 27, 2016 by phillipsr

[arnieg]

I do hope though that in addition to dismissing trolls they do take on board some of the constructive criticism about our sport. easy to dismiss the forum as moaning fans, but most on here are also customers.

It is worth noting that for the SCB coordinator role (Graham Reeve's position) one of the short listed candidates was a supporter and BSF member with no involvement in running the sport, so they are clearly open to constructive input.

 

However when even the most articulate and eloquent of posters disagree on the prognosis and cure, how do the promoters decide which prescriptions to take on board particularly given they will as individuals have different opinions to some of their fellow promoters.

[Halifaxtiger]

HT the two instances you mention at BV and IOW sadly are the exception rather than the rule.

 

I still love speedway and in my heart of hearts would love to go back to being a regular with all that entails but I will not be taken for a mug and fork out £17 every week just to see 17 minutes of racing. It's not so much the silly rules/lack of passing etc that gets to me it's the sheer lack of entertainment and value for money.

 

I know what goes on because my husband and daughter go most weeks, well they did but even they have given up for the year now. I know some tracks put a helluva lot of effort into it but sadly my local track doesn't.

 

Most of the "extras" I've advocated in the past would cost very little in financial terms, tho they might take a bit of co-operation, good will, imagination and commitment from promoters and riders alike and that seems in short supply too. A simple example is riders doing victory laps and wheelies...used to be the norm now becoming a rarity. Kids love them, so do big kids and it all helps fans feel involved.

 

Now if promoters want to ignore folk like me, so be it, but IMO it's a very short sighted view.

My point was more that there are some on here who have no intention of going and are constantly critical but remain a member of this forum. That may or may not be you but I simply don't understand why they are still here if they have no interest.

 

As to listening to those who no longer go, it is my view that it is better to try and hang on to what you have and recruit new fans than to persuade those who have left back. You can, after all, only do so much and if you had been listened to while you were still a fan you might still be there now.

 

Otherwise, its very difficult to disagree with your view because one of my beefs is that some (in fact, many) tracks simply do not try hard enough. I am reluctant to bang on about Isle of Wight but they are a superb example of how to go about it.

 

You can make a fair argument that in a holiday resort like the Island advertising is not just desirable its a necessity, simply because there are so many people who are unaware precisely of what the attractions are. They, however, take it to another level. Posters, leaflets, banners, shows, fairs, newspaper adverts, the lot. One young lady even delivered leaflets on horseback !. I took a bus trip from Sandown to Ryde (about 6 miles) and saw two posters and one banner. As I say, you might expect a holiday destination to advertise but I have never seen anything like that at Eastbourne, for example.

 

When you get to the tidy little Stadium, the food and drink is reasonably priced and you can take your own in. The promoter, Barry Bishop, welcomes people through the gate (one poster commented that the last person to do that was Johnnie Hoskins in the 1970's) and he spends the meeting wandering around talking to people. Last Tuesday he took a number of Birmingham fans on to the centre green. They weren't sponsors, VIP's, just ordinary fans down for the day. Both he and his co-promoter Martin Widman are totally approachable, will listen to comment and constructive criticism with a careful ear and give you feedback.

 

Children are free. For a couple and 2 children under 16, parking and a programme, the cost is £24.50. That's comparable with any other evening attraction and reasonably affordable - at nearby Poole, it could set you back £53. Even the cost of getting to the Island is discounted.

 

There are free sweets, free temporary tattoos and a bike ride round the track for the children.

 

Last Tuesday, they had a bike ride round the track. One young lad is slightly disabled ( I think) and Kelsey Dugard pushed him all the way (and its a big circuit). A very small gesture by a rider that may have a huge effect.

 

The speedway itself is very decent (not in Scunthorpe's league, but better than Belle Vue and Redcar and way better than Sheffield) and my old mates Bryn Williams and Tim Allan do some of the presentation and they are excellent.

 

They are, quite literally, doing everything right from the moment you read one of the numerous adverts to the point that you walk out the stadium and its little wonder that their gates have increased week on week.

 

The thing is none of this is particularly difficult or expensive - indeed, Isle of Wight have sponsors to cover much of the cost. Its simply about a promotion putting every effort in to make the night a good experience for all their customers.

 

Would that every track in the country go to the same lengths because, quite frankly, few of them do.

It is worth noting that for the SCB coordinator role (Graham Reeve's position) one of the short listed candidates was a supporter and BSF member with no involvement in running the sport, so they are clearly open to constructive input.

 

However when even the most articulate and eloquent of posters disagree on the prognosis and cure, how do the promoters decide which prescriptions to take on board particularly given they will as individuals have different opinions to some of their fellow promoters.

I certainly don't think they should automatically adhere to everything that is said on here - as you rightly say, views are wildly different.

Not treating the opinions on this forum with absolute contempt and reading its contents would be a start.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Halifaxtiger

[Little Thumper]

It is worth noting that for the SCB coordinator role (Graham Reeve's position) one of the short listed candidates was a supporter and BSF member with no involvement in running the sport, so they are clearly open to constructive input.

 

However when even the most articulate and eloquent of posters disagree on the prognosis and cure, how do the promoters decide which prescriptions to take on board particularly given they will as individuals have different opinions to some of their fellow promoters.

 

My friend, you are clearly correct in your assertion.

 

Choosing between options is often difficult.

But invariably, doing nothing rarely solves any problem.

 

For any organization to succeed, it needs a strong, charismatic leader(s) who has a vision of what can be achieved.

Casting my gaze around the world of speedway promotion, I have yet to identify any such great leader.

 

The National Speedway Stadium presents a golden opportunity for a re-birth of speedway in this country.

But for this transformation to even begin, the NSS must be far more than a concrete, cash-generator.

 

When the Manchester Velodrome opened, it immediately became the nerve centre for track cycling in this country.

It became the focus for track racing but at the same it became fully inclusive and truly National.

It spawned similar such velodromes in Wales, Scot;and and London and as result, track cycling has become a sport in which we excel but at the same time it has encouraged thousands of people to become involved, either as participants or spectators.

 

I had better stop there, as I'm even boring myself to death.

 

World Peace Is None Of Your Business

[Trees]

We've had loads of threads over the years saying what we, as fans, think would improve our clubs, most of them from a promoting point of view similar to what seems to be going on at IOW. Not much of it costs much, just takes the will, time and effort .....

[arnieg]

My friend, you are clearly correct in your assertion.

 

For any organization to succeed, it needs a strong, charismatic leader(s) who has a vision of what can be achieved.

Casting my gaze around the world of speedway promotion, I have yet to identify any such great leader.

 

 

World Peace Is None Of Your Business

Problem is charismatic leaders need willing follower. Speedway promoters (who tend to be used to being their own bosses) are not by nature such people, and collaborative working is not something that comes naturally to them.

[steve roberts]

Remember having a chat with the late Bernard Crapper (Oxford Promoter) regarding his use of the starting line phone apparently disputing a call by the referee. He explained to me that he was often just passing the time of day with the official giving the impression that he was 'ranting and raving' waving his arms about! He would do it to inject some much needed entertainment to a dull meeting and to get the fans going!

 

We could do with characters like him now in the sport.

[Bryn]

Plus practical help from fans able to provide it (as is the case on the IOW) in addition to posting on forums - agree Mother T?

Remember having a chat with the late Bernard Crapper (Oxford Promoter) regarding his use of the starting line phone apparently disputing a call by the referee. He explained to me that he was often just passing the time of day with the official giving the impression that he was 'ranting and raving' waving his arms about! He would do it to inject some much needed entertainment to a dull meeting and to get the fans going!

 

We could do with characters like him now in the sport.

 

Bernard is not the only one who did/does that Steve!

[Trees]

Plus practical help from fans able to provide it (as is the case on the IOW) in addition to posting on forums - agree Mother T?

 

 

Bernard is not the only one who did/does that Steve!

Yes Bryn, doing my little bit 😊

[Humphrey Appleby]

Remember having a chat with the late Bernard Crapper (Oxford Promoter) regarding his use of the starting line phone apparently disputing a call by the referee. He explained to me that he was often just passing the time of day with the official giving the impression that he was 'ranting and raving' waving his arms about! He would do it to inject some much needed entertainment to a dull meeting and to get the fans going!

Of course we all now know it was kafabee, so I'm not sure it would have the same effect these days.

[LisaColette]

Matt Ford is Gavan?

:D

[Tsunami]

Its ok to be a critic in others sports but no speedway, its ok to be a critic of a football club owner but not a speedway promoter or governing body collectively ... Whys that??

Mainly because the Football club owner has got the money to make more money, whilst speedway promoters don't but still try to keep the sport alive at their cost. But you knew that.

[steve roberts]

Despite an earlier comment about Jack 'The Villain' Millen he certainly would draw the crowds. Recall one-time Tees-side Promoter, Ron Wilson, would book him in especially for open meetings because he knew that Jack would add hundreds to the attendance! Jack would play to the crowd and create mischief but was an entertainer. Apparently he was a really nice guy off track!

Plus practical help from fans able to provide it (as is the case on the IOW) in addition to posting on forums - agree Mother T?

 

Bernard is not the only one who did/does that Steve!

That great showman, Johnnie Hoskins, was another!

[arnieg]

I think it is naive to think it doesn't happen in football too.

 

See for example:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/12/charlton-athletic-fan-can-only-get-season-ticket-if-he-signs-beh/

[Trees]

At one time I thought it was said that promoters maybe posting on here with right girlie names 😆

[Tsunami]

You know as well as I do that a good proportion of promoters come on here including a few ex promoters, to be fair I think the BSF has created a response now because we do get the occasional BSPA clarification when the proverbial hits the fan as it did with Cook

Whilst some do, i don't think as many do look at the BSF now. I knew a lot of their signons, but most don't use them now, and i would say possibly only about 4 actually contribute anything now. Whether the others look in you don't know but, from personal experience and attitudes, i would say not too many. Too many have been bitten by coming on here and posting, and getting savaged for it by the usuals. Tends to piss people off if all or most are negative back.

Interesting that George English never looks at the BSF, but you may not know, a current BSF thread is dissected and printed on one full page(A4) every week, and produced by Lawrence Heppell who works in the box at both Newcastle and Berwick. If you can get your hands on a Diamonds matchday magazine it is usually worth a read.

[Arson fire]

Mainly because the Football club owner has got the money to make more money, whilst speedway promoters don't but still try to keep the sport alive at their cost. But you knew that.

??Nothing to do with money, not all football clubs or owners/ commitees have money... Yet still try to keep clibs afloat, Got absolutley nothing to do with money. So i dont get where your coming from.

 

You either have the balls to speak your mind as a fan or you don't. Good and bad.

[Halifaxtiger]

We've had loads of threads over the years saying what we, as fans, think would improve our clubs, most of them from a promoting point of view similar to what seems to be going on at IOW. Not much of it costs much, just takes the will, time and effort .....

Precisely. What Isle of Wight are doing is neither difficult nor expensive.

 

Its ok to be a critic in others sports but no speedway, its ok to be a critic of a football club owner but not a speedway promoter or governing body collectively ... Whys that??

Of course you can be critical of speedway promotions. That criticism has to be fair, reasonable and constructive, though, and frequently here it isn't.

 

Indeed, promotions should welcome such criticism (although almost always they don't). To return to Isle of Wight, a few weeks ago on their facebook page Barry Bishop actually asked fans what they didn't like. Extraordinary, but is a mark of their attitude and wish to improve.

 

After all, how can you change your product to what your customers want if you don't know what they like or dislike and worse, aren't even prepared to listen ? You can't do everything but changes can be made that are quite simple and won't cost a penny.

 

To me, there are two types of people who aren't critical : those who pack up, leave and don't come back, and those who say everything is wonderful (at least publicly) whether it is or it isn't. Both are useless to a promotion. One because they don't know why they have left and the other because they are not going to say something is wrong even if it is. The best fan is objective in view, being reasonably critical but remaining loyal.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Halifaxtiger

[E I Addio]

Nothing wrong with ex-fans giving an opinion, but the trouble is most of them can't say what they want to say and leave at that, They have to keep repeating the same old points again and again and again. Boring.

 

The other thing that applies to the majority of posters, both present and ex-fans is that they come out with these bright ideas with no thought to the cost side of things. Every idea has to be funded somehow and nobody wants to pay more in admission.Then we have the classic "think outside the box" as if there were viable ideas out there waiting for someone to find them.

 

Most promoters worth their salt have at least one, sometimes two fans forums a year where they meet their paying public face to face. That is the ones that count, that pay to go through the turnstiles and are sufficiently interested to turn up. Of course some fans can't make it due to work etc, but these forums usually contain a pretty fair cross section of those who put their hand in their pocket opposed to those who sit behind their keyboards moaning for the sake of it (I.e. Moxey 63 etc). I would have thought the test is whether the promoters can be bothered to meet the fans, not whether they trawl through the build on Internet forums

[Halifaxtiger]

Nothing wrong with ex-fans giving an opinion, but the trouble is most of them can't say what they want to say and leave at that, They have to keep repeating the same old points again and again and again. Boring.

 

The other thing that applies to the majority of posters, both present and ex-fans is that they come out with these bright ideas with no thought to the cost side of things. Every idea has to be funded somehow and nobody wants to pay more in admission.Then we have the classic "think outside the box" as if there were viable ideas out there waiting for someone to find them.

 

Most promoters worth their salt have at least one, sometimes two fans forums a year where they meet their paying public face to face. That is the ones that count, that pay to go through the turnstiles and are sufficiently interested to turn up. Of course some fans can't make it due to work etc, but these forums usually contain a pretty fair cross section of those who put their hand in their pocket opposed to those who sit behind their keyboards moaning for the sake of it (I.e. Moxey 63 etc). I would have thought the test is whether the promoters can be bothered to meet the fans, not whether they trawl through the build on Internet forums

Nothing wrong with fans forums, indeed they are a good idea. But they they don't provide instant feedback where as the internet does. As an example, I was commenting on the Colts-Kings meeting about an hour after it had finished rather than 3 months (or longer) later.

 

In addition, the internet (and I accept that there is a deal of rubbish) is a method by which customers can state opinions; foolish to ignore anything that does that, I'd say.

 

It also gives the promotion a chance to respond promptly. At the first meeting I went to on the Island the track was a dustbowl and I complained on their face book page about it. Barry Bishop replied almost immediately, apologising, saying they would try to do something about it for the future, hoped I'd come back and said I could have a pits tour and a centre green visit if I did. To me, that's a near perfect response: an apology, a remedy and a bribe. It contrasts with the hostile and abusive response I got last time I complained to a promoter about the same issue.

 

Same problem, different reply. Needless to say I have been back to Isle of Wight (several times) but not the other track. Doesn't take a lot to be reasonable and polite to a paying customer, but its something several simply do not seem to be able to do - although it doesn't stop them whining about how poor their attendances are.

 

As to the cost of entertainment, Isle of Wight's sweets and tattoo's for children are provided by sponsors, and the bike race round the track costs the promotion nothing. It needn't be the case that you have to shell out a fortune to provide additional attractions.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Halifaxtiger