Play Off Race - Top 4

[damosuzuki]

Belle Vue will need time, but my point in posting that article was to ask if that's where they were 22 years ago would ANYONE have believed it if you'd whisked them into the NSS at the bank holiday Poole meeting.

 

The advice I'd give them is do what Glasgow did - they went down and spent time with Matt Ford finding out how he'd gone about marketing and promotion at Poole.

[SUPERACE]

Im going Monday i will get my ticket when i get there as will 75% of the crowd so why anyones bothered about advanced ticket numbers i will never know. The crowds this year have been good mostly, and i would say up there with most in the league apart from Poole.

 

But i agree with Steve 100% our promotion dont promote, they sit back and just expect everyone to turn up. They are legends for delivering us this amazing stadium but i feel we need new owners to take us to the next level. Maybe someone on the south coast will make a bid

Edited September 8, 2016 by SUPERACE

[foreverblue]

There are more teams than can qualify for the play offs and have a chance of winning the league. How many team had a chance of winning the league by the end of august without the play offs?

The 6 play off meetings are usually the best attended of any meeting and the best racing. Teams usually charge more for the final so even more money is generated.

You can't keep comparing to what speedway was like in a previous era, what it was like in the good old days. Life has changed and so has sport. Play offs are a part of most sports in the current era and i think the majority of fans like them and embrace them

Edited September 9, 2016 by foreverblue

[orion]

Lol!

 

Every season teams all but qualify for the knockout cup bit by the end of august, leaving weeks and weeks of meaningless meetings till the cup final, every season.

 

Now and again a mega team emerges but it was very rare the season was over by the end of September in a proper league format, never mind august, happy to be shown the 'many times' though.

 

Even when there was a mega team they would attract attendances which would put some 'knockout cup bit' finals to shame, you must remember the crowds for the Belle Vue meetings at Swindon in the early 70s, it was the only thing that kept them going most seasons.

 

I hope you don't cry at this years end of an era meeting, ha ha!

Let again you are wrong ....as this year has shown it is important to finish top as it allows you pick who you ride in the semi another fact you fail to factor in ...so you point about meaningless is as normal is not true ...with that in mind and with you saying it happens every season ...what matches have been meaningless this season due to the play offs ?

Edited September 9, 2016 by orion

[B.V 72]

There would be a far bigger crowd for Mondays match with Poole if it was not on tv i m o.If a couple go to Belle vue sit in the grandstand buy 2 progs,parking,drink/snack + petrol its over £60.A lot of fans will stay home and watch it and spend the money on the play off semi's they then get to see both meetings for half the cost a no brainer for a lot of people these days.

 

On a personal note i will be there i am a season ticket holder.I posted on another thread that a good few years ago i used to be able to afford to go to speedway,football,cinema and have a good few nights in the pub every week.But these days leasure and everything else seems to cost a hell of a lot more than it used to so like most people these days i have to pick what i want to do i cannot afford to do it all.In the summer i pick speedway above all others and do other things in the winter.From the crowds all over these days it would seem that a lot of people choose to mix it up and pick out a few speedway meetings they want to attend hence the big crowd difference from match to match.So there are a lot of choices for the leasure £ and people have to choose where they spend it and speedway seems to be a little to low on the list for my liking.

[orion]

Cup finals and championship deciders have always attracted the best crowds, that has nothing to do with the cup and qualifier format which has been shown (in Sweden at least) to have a negative overall effect on crowds.

 

The stock bsf answer that you can't go back to the good old days. Only an idiot dismisses something just because it was in a different era.

 

Ha ha what is the point of having something important that doesn't attract any fans? Someone said Monday's meeting at Belle Vue is meaningless, surprised you missed it? Belle Vue riders were testing set ups on Wednesday and a Leicester rider didn't even bother to turn up for a crucial top spot meeting.

What do you mean someone ? I asked you a simple question what matches are meaningless and have nothing to race for seeing top spot is important ..why would Leicester rider turn match if was a normal league match without the play offs ? When oxford and cradley used to top of the league there top riders used to out engines and set up's all the time it's hardly a new thing

[BWitcher]

Cup finals and championship deciders have always attracted the best crowds, that has nothing to do with the cup and qualifier format which has been shown (in Sweden at least) to have a negative overall effect on crowds.

 

 

 

No it hasn't been shown to have a negative effect in Sweden at all, as you full well know. Only you and your hilarious attempts at twisting figures can come up with such nonsense.

 

Here is the post made by ArnieG regarding attendances in Sweden before and after playoffs introduced.

 

 

 

 

The question was raised about crowds in Sweden and the effect of play-offs.

 

Here’s the data for the Elitserien:

 

av attendance

1994 1009

1995 1135

1996 1089

1997 1137

1998 1172

1999 1796

 

Play-offs introduced

 

av attendance excluding play-offs

2000 2261

2001 2781

2002 2678

2003 2847

2004 2864

2005 3029

2006 2602

2007 2742

 

Play-off final attendances

 

2000 12242 & 7464

2001 8639 & 9080

2002 5940 & 8035

2003 5468 & 8426

2004 5709 & 7526

2005 8703 & 7264

2006 7901 & 5899

2007 9398 & 8564

 

Note : Tony Rickardsson was world champion in 1994/98/99/2001/02/05 (and in top four for entire period 1996-2005. 2007 was the first time since 1989 when no Swede finished in the top four of the World Championship – Andreas Jonsson in 10^th place was the top Swede.

Edited September 9, 2016 by BWitcher

[foreverblue]

Cup finals and championship deciders have always attracted the best crowds, that has nothing to do with the cup and qualifier format which has been shown (in Sweden at least) to have a negative overall effect on crowds.

 

The stock bsf answer that you can't go back to the good old days. Only an idiot dismisses something just because it was in a different era.

 

Ha ha what is the point of having something important that doesn't attract any fans? Someone said Monday's meeting at Belle Vue is meaningless, surprised you missed it? Belle Vue riders were testing set ups on Wednesday and a Leicester rider didn't even bother to turn up for a crucial top spot meeting.

Time moves on. it's ok to reflect on the past we all do, crowd levels drop because of many things, the popularity of the sport as a whole has dropped, clubs have closed and we can sit on our sofa to watch it.

 

The playoffs make it more exciting and this year we have Lakeside and Swindon having a playoff decider.

[waiheke1]

Look, we've already been through this. Those figures showed crowds increasing by at least 4% on average before the qualifier and cup format was introduced and after the increase stalled and even turned negative. It is just a fact, no opinion involved.

 

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=82341&p=2832044

 

I don't understand why you can't see it?

but that's just not true at all is it, your picking and choosing statistics as you see fit.

from 1995-1998 the crowds grew by under 1% per year.

yes, eliterseien had a drop off in 2006/7 (was growing every year bar one under the play offs til that stage) - but still 1000 more fans than pre play offs, and of course the play ff finals themselves get 3-5 times the avaerage crowd from 1999 (significantly more times the average corwd fro m 98 and before)

If you can look at those stats and use them as an argument AGAINST the playoffs, there really is no point debating with you.

[BWitcher]

but that's just not true at all is it, your picking and choosing statistics as you see fit.

from 1995-1998 the crowds grew by under 1% per year.

yes, eliterseien had a drop off in 2006/7 (was growing every year bar one under the play offs til that stage) - but still 1000 more fans than pre play offs, and of course the play ff finals themselves get 3-5 times the avaerage crowd from 1999 (significantly more times the average corwd fro m 98 and before)

If you can look at those stats and use them as an argument AGAINST the playoffs, there really is no point debating with you.

 

And that is it in a nutshell.

[waiheke1]

The average attendance in 1995 was 1135 not 1009.

[ouch]

The crowd figures increased in Sweden due to the play offs.

 

Therefore

 

The crowd figures decreased in Britain due to the play offs.

 

If you cannot apply the facts of a debate consistently then you are being selective and biased.

[Starman2006]

The crowd figures increased in Sweden due to the play offs.

 

Therefore

 

The crowd figures decreased in Britain due to the play offs.

 

If you cannot apply the facts of a debate consistently then you are being selective and biased.

Not at poole they don't we always have good attendances, and they just get bigger in the play off's..

[stevebrum]

but that's just not true at all is it, your picking and choosing statistics as you see fit.

from 1995-1998 the crowds grew by under 1% per year.

yes, eliterseien had a drop off in 2006/7 (was growing every year bar one under the play offs til that stage) - but still 1000 more fans than pre play offs, and of course the play ff finals themselves get 3-5 times the avaerage crowd from 1999 (significantly more times the average corwd fro m 98 and before)

If you can look at those stats and use them as an argument AGAINST the playoffs, there really is no point debating with you.

Well said. No point debating tho.

[BWitcher]

The crowd figures increased in Sweden due to the play offs.

 

Therefore

 

The crowd figures decreased in Britain due to the play offs.

 

If you cannot apply the facts of a debate consistently then you are being selective and biased.

 

If you don't know what the debate is, best not to comment.

 

Nobody has said the INCREASED crowds in Sweden (the capitals are for the less intelligent, or trolling members of the forum, who can't grasp numbers very well) are down to the playoffs..

 

What has been disputed is the claim by ONE person/troll that the INCREASED crowds in Sweden are evidence of play offs having a detrimental effect on attendances.

[BWitcher]

What is astonishing is you continue to waste your own time with your inane ramblings.

 

You clearly think you're being clever at your attempt to 'manipulate' the statistics, sadly for you they just further emphasise what a complete troll you are. I say troll because I refuse to believe you can be so dumb to actually believe there is any logic to your nonsense.

[ouch]

 

Against my better judgement I'll indulge your trolling after seeing your post quoted within another post.

 

In the thread " So who will win the EL in 2016"

the usual row had broke out with Fred saying play offs had a detrimental effect on crowd numbers.

 

armieg posted,

The question was raised about crowds in Sweden and the effect of play-offs.

 

Heres the data for the Elitserien.......

 

You replied to this with

Thanks for that Arnieg.

 

Pretty much blows Fred's argument out of the water.

 

You followed it up with,

 

Attendances will always fluctuate from year to year, the simple facts remain, the crowds for regular league meetings are far higher in Sweden since the playoffs than in the time preceding it.

 

You wanted facts, Arnieg has provided them.

 

This does not tally with your reply to my post.

[stevebrum]

What is astonishing is you continue to waste your own time with your inane ramblings.

 

You clearly think you're being clever at your attempt to 'manipulate' the statistics, sadly for you they just further emphasise what a complete troll you are. I say troll because I refuse to believe you can be so dumb to actually believe there is any logic to your nonsense.

Is it round 2 or 3 or 4 of trying to justify the same viewpoint that fails each time?

Each time it's the same argument rehashed (to be wrong again).

The one man band continues.

[SUPERACE]

The 'advanced sales' have proved to be an excellent barometer for the actual attendance at Belle Vue.

 

The wolves sky meeting had over 700 'advanced sales' in the grandstand, you said 75% buy their tickets when they get there so that means the attendance for the wolves sky meeting was 2,800! I think it was less than that but I'm happy to go with you.

 

On that basis our average gate is nearly 3500!

 

I can't think of a team which has increased crowds by 3.5x (based on your 75% walk ups?) in one season, I suppose Glasgow have increased but has it actually doubled never mind over 3x?

 

Anyway, if 75% buy their tickets on the day the crowd on Monday will probably be at least 2000 so not as bad as it might look on the telly.

Advanced ticket sales were bound to drop as people realised that buying on the day made no difference. First few meetings i bought in advance, now im used to the stadium and used to buying a ticket on the day i now do that as its easier. I would suggest that a lot who uses to buy in advance now buy on the day.

[BWitcher]

Against my better judgement I'll indulge your trolling after seeing your post quoted within another post.

 

In the thread " So who will win the EL in 2016"

the usual row had broke out with Fred saying play offs had a detrimental effect on crowd numbers.

 

armieg posted,

The question was raised about crowds in Sweden and the effect of play-offs.

 

Heres the data for the Elitserien.......

 

You replied to this with

Thanks for that Arnieg.

 

Pretty much blows Fred's argument out of the water.

 

You followed it up with,

 

Attendances will always fluctuate from year to year, the simple facts remain, the crowds for regular league meetings are far higher in Sweden since the playoffs than in the time preceding it.

 

You wanted facts, Arnieg has provided them.

 

This does not tally with your reply to my post.

 

Yes it does.

 

The facts are attendances have not gone down in Sweden since the playoffs have been introduced, which was the crux of Fred Flange's argument.

 

I didn't at any point say they had gone up BECAUSE of the play offs. In fact I even gave other reasons that could have an impact later on.

 

Try again.