Belle Vue -v- Swindon 19th August

[ouch]

The £180000 Glasgow paid was only for the electronic bill boards according to the Star.

[foreverblue]

Jesus wept!

 

I didn't say they were identical did I?

 

ALMOST identical!

 

You are that desperate to troll my posts you can't even read what they say!

 

Both tracks were wet, why troll that point?

 

Fans were in the stadium at both meetings, why troll that point?

 

The blade was on the track at both meetings, why troll that as well?

 

Oh no, I've just realised you are only trolling the post in relation to the kl v Swindon meeting, you are going to go through the whole process again with the kl v Poole meeting on the basis that they weren't carbon copies or identical to each other, aren't you?

 

Lol! You do realise foreverblue keeps liking your troll posts, says it all really.

Troll troll troll troll everyone's a troll who doesn't agree with you! I like his posts because i agree with him, has anyone liked your post? He is correct about the Kings Lynn meeting, i was there.

Edited August 20, 2016 by foreverblue

[foreverblue]

I dont care if someone diagrees with me but, as you both know, it is actually against forum rules to change a quote to suit an argument, that is why he is a troll. Why change a quote unless it is to troll? In any case the original post is there to refer to.

 

Look at his content history, it isn't an accident the vast majority of his recent posts are simply trolling my posts, usually with no relevance to the thread.

 

You said we could rest zagar but couldn't rest fricke, why? Stupid or trolling?

 

It is no surprise you keep liking his posts, as I said, it says it all.

Fricke should be banned. You suggested Zagar should have been rested from the Wolves meeting which he couldn't be unless injured. Maybe poor use of words from me.

Edited August 20, 2016 by foreverblue

[foreverblue]

I thought you said zagar could be rested? If you didn't I'm happy to apologise.

I thought you said Zagar should be rested because you didn't need to win.Don't remember saying he should be rested.

[BWitcher]

I dont care if someone diagrees with me but, as you both know, it is actually against forum rules to change a quote to suit an argument, that is why he is a troll. Why change a quote unless it is to troll? In any case the original post is there to refer to.

 

Look at his content history, it isn't an accident the vast majority of his recent posts are simply trolling my posts, usually with no relevance to the thread.

 

You said we could rest zagar but couldn't rest fricke, why? Stupid or trolling?

 

It is no surprise you keep liking his posts, as I said, it says it all.

 

I haven't changed any of your posts so quit your pathetic lying and accusations.

 

There is only one of us who have been banned for rule breaking. Only one of us who has had to change username out of sheer embarrassment. It's not me.

 

Somebody who was actually at the Kings Lynn meeting has confirmed what I have said... NOBODY else on the entire thread is dragging that meeting into this debate except you, to as usual, try and portray Belle Vue as some sort of victim.

 

Every single other Belle Vue fan on this thread has held their hands up and admitted that on this occasion Belle Vue messed up and haven't tried to deflect attention elsewhere.

Edited August 20, 2016 by BWitcher

[Shale Searcher]

The same happened at the Leicester v Kings Lynn match, big rain shower (over an hour) we swept all the surface water off, did a bit of grading, and I thought and so did a few others Inc Leicester trackman, that it was ok, after 3 or 4 races, the track would have developed.. but Kings Lynn wanted it blading, and once a blade is used, it usually only goes one way in the UK, and that's off!! And it was off!!

 

UK track material is just not like the stuff they use abroad, and usually UK tracks don't have enough dry material, additional plant to resurface a bladed track quick enough....

Edited August 20, 2016 by Shale Searcher

[Gresham78]

Brilliant racing track, top of the league, successful World Cup, looking to the future with a NL team, the academy to come and a fantastic signing in Dan Bewley, securing income from events organised for the Peter Craven suite and a new NSS website up and running to encourage further bookings. I think you're right, they haven't a clue.

 

Of course mistakes have been made and more can be done, although I think last night was mainly down to a lack of experience with the new track and believing the excellent drainage would be able to cope. I think that is why the track was left when the rain stopped, they expected it to drain and dry as it did in the WC race off and the Leicester match. Unfortunately, this time the volume of water was just tooo much. It was a mistake but it was reasonable to think the drains would cope based on the limited previous history.

 

The Glasgow promotion do seem to be leading the way with their professional approach and in increasing local awareness to build up their crowds. Lessons can be learned from them although, my concern there, if rumours are correct, is that the publicity campaign is costing in the region of £180,000. Not many, if any, other clubs can afford that sort of budget and importantly, is it going to be cost effective? You will have to get a lot of people through the gate to recover that sort of outlay.

You say it was reasonable to think the drains could cope with the rainfall but as I understand it Manchester had significant rainfall on Thursday night followed by 8 hours worth on Friday. With that kind of precipitation the best drainage system in the world isn't going to cope. The fact is there comes a point when the shale is saturated as it was on Friday and once that happens it has to dry out and it just wasn't going to do it in 3 hours. The worst thing is they let people through the turnstiles not knowing for certain that they were going to be able to put on a meeting. There should have been a track inspection at lunch time taking into account the weather forecast - an update posted on the website and social media followed by another inspection when the rain stopped and a decision taken then. You have to take into account not only the travelling supporters like myself who spent 6 hours getting to Manchester but also the home fans some of whom probably don't live that close to the stadium. and have to travel as well. Just taking a punt on it like they did last night and assuming it would be ok as it had been in the past is unprofessional and shows a contempt for the paying public.

After the fiasco of the opening night messrs Gordon and Morton need to get their act together and act a bit more responsibly and professionally otherwise as Bellevueace said the fine facilty that is the NSS is not going to be exploited to the full.

How the Belle Vue Promotion didn't learn from the farce of the opening night is beyond me; to have the paying public in the stadium only to call it off because of an unfit track is careless if it has hapens once but to do it again is just incomptent.

[Shale Searcher]

You say it was reasonable to think the drains could cope with the rainfall but as I understand it Manchester had significant rainfall on Thursday night followed by 8 hours worth on Friday. With that kind of precipitation the best drainage system in the world isn't going to cope. The fact is there comes a point when the shale is saturated as it was on Friday and once that happens it has to dry out and it just wasn't going to do it in 3 hours. The worst thing is they let people through the turnstiles not knowing for certain that they were going to be able to put on a meeting. There should have been a track inspection at lunch time taking into account the weather forecast - an update posted on the website and social media followed by another inspection when the rain stopped and a decision taken then. You have to take into account not only the travelling supporters like myself who spent 6 hours getting to Manchester but also the home fans some of whom probably don't live that close to the stadium. and have to travel as well. Just taking a punt on it like they did last night and assuming it would be ok as it had been in the past is unprofessional and shows a contempt for the paying public.

After the fiasco of the opening night messrs Gordon and Morton need to get their act together and act a bit more responsibly and professionally otherwise as Bellevueace said the fine facilty that is the NSS is not going to be exploited to the full.

How the Belle Vue Promotion didn't learn from the farce of the opening night is beyond me; to have the paying public in the stadium only to call it off because of an unfit track is careless if it has hapens once but to do it again is just incomptent.

 

A friend was on one of the JAPS, and basically the track hadn't been tyre packed sufficiently to keep the rain out the shale, to allow the majority of it to "run-off" down the banking to the drains.....

[Aces51]

A friend was on one of the JAPS, and basically the track hadn't been tyre packed sufficiently to keep the rain out the shale, to allow the majority of it to "run-off" down the banking to the drains.....

That sounds to me as if it could be right. There was certainly a deep layer of loose wet shale on top. I'm sure Colin Meredith would have tyre packed it knowing the forecast but I don't know much about his replacement and to be fair to him he must still be finding his feet.

 

I can understand what Gresham 78 is saying and why but the drains are excellent and have dealt with prolonged heavy rain on a number of occasions, the British Final, the World Cup race off and the Leicester meeting spring to mind. I recall a really heavy downpour shortly before a meeting and literally within 10 or 15 minutes the water had disappeared. I travel quite a distance and from previous experience fully expected the meeting to go ahead and can believe that the promotion would as well. If the meeting had been at the old track I wouldn't have set off.

 

Interestingly, Tony Steele and the track curator walked the track a while before the JAPS went out and nothing was said then about calling it off, that only arose after the riders had an input and the blade was brought out.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Aces51

[BWitcher]

I posted "Remarkably last night appears to have been almost a carbon copy of two other late postponements" you posted "The situation was very, very different and far from a 'carbon copy' of the Kings Lynn meeting against Swindon in July", you deliberately changed what I posted to back up your trolling.

 

I posted "Apart from the FIVE almost identical features you're right there's no comparison?" You posted "Although of course your 'claimed' five identical features weren't identical." again you deliberately changed what I posted to back up your trolling.

 

Are you unable to see that you have misquoted me to back up your trolling? That is against forum rules. To deny it is stupid, it is plain to see.

 

Then there is your trolling claim that "As usual you are the ONLY person on the thread still trying to defend and deflect blame." This is simply trolling, in no way have I defended anybody.

 

Now you claim "I haven't changed any of your posts so quit your pathetic lying and accusations." can you not understand that missing words from someone's post does actually fully meet the description of changing the post?

 

Look I am very happy to keep quoting exactly what you've posted to prove you are a liar, why are you continually compelled to change my posts to try (and fail) to achieve the same result?

So I haven't changed any of your posts.

Glad we have cleared that up. No Forum rules broken.

 

You said it was almost a carbon copy, I stated it was far from a carbon copy. That's not changing your post, that's disagreeing with your post. If you don't understand basics like that there is little hope in ever having any form of sensible conversation with you.. but then you don't want that do you?

 

The forum rules you keep referring too are for when someone uses the 'Quote' facility and alters what was originally there.

 

Now give it a rest.

[Gemini]

The same happened at the Leicester v Kings Lynn match, big rain shower (over an hour) we swept all the surface water off, did a bit of grading, and I thought and so did a few others Inc Leicester trackman, that it was ok, after 3 or 4 races, the track would have developed.. but Kings Lynn wanted it blading, and once a blade is used, it usually only goes one way in the UK, and that's off!! And it was off!!

 

Why is a visiting team allowed to dictate how a track is prepared, especially with the track staff knowing what the outcome will be?

[BWitcher]

You put 'carbon copy' in quotes, you were quoting me, you should have posted 'appears to be almost a carbon copy' if you are using quotes!

 

Yawn.

 

Your desperation knows no bounds. If you think I have broken forum rules, present the rule.

[Gemini]

Oh gawd! Will one of you just give up so we can have some peace.

[BWitcher]

Oh gawd! Will one of you just give up so we can have some peace.

 

If he has an issue Gemini he should take it to the moderators instead of hurling around stupid allegations clogging up the forum.

[Aces51]

I blame the parents.

[Shale Searcher]

Why is a visiting team allowed to dictate how a track is prepared, especially with the track staff knowing what the outcome will be?

 

I can't answer that one, the days of the referee having the final say seem long gone.. Leicester didn't help the cause, none of them had changed, and that sends out the wrong message...

 

Also, every man and his dog had been out onto the track on turn 2 (pits entrance/exit) and had kicked, heeled, scraped, stubbed their feet all over, and that made it look far worse than it was... In the old days, pit gates were shut, with signs up saying "Riders Please Keep Off The Track" until the pit gates were opened by the clerk of the course..

 

There are riders that just don't like riding on wet tracks, and its worse now than at any time I can recall, and the Elite League is far worse than the Premier League..

That sounds to me as if it could be right. There was certainly a deep layer of loose wet shale on top. I'm sure Colin Meredith would have tyre packed it knowing the forecast but I don't know much about his replacement and to be fair to him he must still be finding his feet.

 

I can understand what Gresham 78 is saying and why but the drains are excellent and have dealt with prolonged heavy rain on a number of occasions, the British Final, the World Cup race off and the Leicester meeting spring to mind. I recall a really heavy downpour shortly before a meeting and literally within 10 or 15 minutes the water had disappeared. I travel quite a distance and from previous experience fully expected the meeting to go ahead and can believe that the promotion would as well. If the meeting had been at the old track I wouldn't have set off.

 

Interestingly, Tony Steele and the track curator walked the track a while before the JAPS went out and nothing was said then about calling it off, that only arose after the riders had an input and the blade was brought out.

 

When you have adequate drainage, decent banking and clay to shale bias, if you pack it down with tyres, whilst it's damp, it forms a almost a skin, which will allow a lot of the falling rain to make it down hill to the drains. However, once the surface is disturbed, it will leech water down through the track. If rain is forecast, you need to moisten the surface, and tyre pack and tyre pack and tyre pack, then get off the track, and leave it well alone until the ref wants to look at it.. And most of all, keep the "track kickers" off until official pre meeting track walk..

[Gresham78]

I'm assuming Shale Searcher you've worked on tracks yourself judging by your comments in which case I accept what you're saying.However it doesn't excuse the lack of communication by the club. If they'd just announced something on the lines of ' despite heavy rain the club are confident of the meeting going ahead'That announcement could have been proceeded by a track inspection and followed up with a further inspection when the rain stopped.

Everybody in speedway knows rain and racing don't go together very well so you've got to keep people informed when a meeting is likely to be affected by the weather & the track condition needs to be monitored regularly. It's no good just relying on the drains,letting people in and then saying 'oh darn it we forgot to tyre pack it'.

If this sport wants to be taken seriously again its got to act more professionally and that includes the National Speedway Stadium as it should be setting an example to the rest of the sport.

[bruno]

I blame the parents.

I blame Maggie Thatcher

[KIRKYLANE]

A general comment re the above and the other occasions when things have gone astray throughout British Speedway in recent times :

 

When will British Speedway stop shooting itself in the foot ?

 

Sadly, I think the answer is likely to be never !!!!

 

It is no wonder that the media and TV regard Speedway as a minority sport and give it minimal support.

 

I have watched Speedway for over 50 years and there are times when I despair with the way British Speedway runs itself.

[Shale Searcher]

I'm assuming Shale Searcher you've worked on tracks yourself judging by your comments in which case I accept what you're saying.However it doesn't excuse the lack of communication by the club. If they'd just announced something on the lines of ' despite heavy rain the club are confident of the meeting going ahead'That announcement could have been proceeded by a track inspection and followed up with a further inspection when the rain stopped.

Everybody in speedway knows rain and racing don't go together very well so you've got to keep people informed when a meeting is likely to be affected by the weather & the track condition needs to be monitored regularly. It's no good just relying on the drains,letting people in and then saying 'oh darn it we forgot to tyre pack it'.

If this sport wants to be taken seriously again its got to act more professionally and that includes the National Speedway Stadium as it should be setting an example to the rest of the sport.

Yes, you assume correctly.. And yes your are right about clubs not keeping its fans updated with info..

 

There's so much in speedway that is out of control, some you can take control of, and should.. Inc keeping supporters updated with team news, mind you, with the reactions you get on here, perhaps they can't risk losing 50+ to a meeting because their star rider is in some other way occupied abroad, and their best "7 rides, rider" is performing in a meeting a division or two lower down the leagues!!!