Gemini Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 ......Shale Searcher......I can't answer that one, the days of the referee having the final say seem long gone.. Leicester didn't help the cause, none of them had changed, and that sends out the wrong message...Also, every man and his dog had been out onto the track on turn 2 (pits entrance/exit) and had kicked, heeled, scraped, stubbed their feet all over, and that made it look far worse than it was... In the old days, pit gates were shut, with signs up saying "Riders Please Keep Off The Track" until the pit gates were opened by the clerk of the course..There are riders that just don't like riding on wet tracks, and its worse now than at any time I can recall, and the Elite League is far worse than the Premier League.. Thanks for your reply. The main thing fans object to is being kept in the dark what is going on and allowed to pay admission when there is obviously no chance of the match going ahead. In this case it's even worse because some Kings Lynn fans are having problems getting a refund weeks afterwards. Unlucky for me I think I must have thrown our two tickets away as I can't find them so that's £30 the promotion can have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrotron Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Well another pr disaster for the club. Why the track work didnt start around 4.30- 5.00pm i dont know. I was stood at the front of the stadium around 6.30 when a couple of people came up to me asking where you buy tickets and how do you get into the grandstand, obviously new to the sport and the stadium, after this latest shambles im sure they wont be in a rush to return. After the opening meeting disaster it appears lessons have not been learned, we have a fantastic new stadium, best track in the country, and a team top of the league. Yet still past mistakes are revisited, the crowd was woeful anyway and ive no doubt many yet again will have been alienated. After all the trials and tribulations of delivering this stadium all that good work is being undone by very poor management. I posted a couple of seasons ago i believed this promotion would deliver this facility but would not have the ability to run it to its full potential. What i witnessed tonight sadly does not make me change my mind. I feel the promotion are out of their depth, this is a great oppertunity to launch the club into a new golden era and that is being squandered. Imagine the Facenna brothers or Matt Ford for example having a stadium like this in a major city, the public awareness and the complete running of the club would be far more professional. You only get one oppertunity to create a good first impression, that was lost at the grand opening, tonight did nothing to convince me the promotion are learning from their mistakes. Best post on here sums it up in a honest manner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Best post on here sums it up in a honest manner Agree.... I was under the impression, that once the referee arrives at the track, he/she takes over control of the track, in which case he/she would have made an inspection of the air fence/mesh fence on straights, and kickboards, kerb, and walked on the track.. So surely, the referee has to take some, if not all responsibility of the meeting going ahead or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Covers would have saved this meeting, ok, I know the rhetoric over covers, so perhaps a different solution... If, only 25% to 40% of the rain could have been prevented from being absorbed by the track, it would also have gone ahead... Surely, and i've mentioned this before to no avail, perhaps there's something that could be added to the shale when tyre packing to prevent water ingress.... Perhaps something similar to what gets sprayed on cricket wickets (when they mention its a glued pitch) Something like PVA glue, or something that helps seal the track surface.. Anyone have any thoughts/alternative methods to waterproof the racing surface (obviously, it has to be environmentally safe)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I'm sure you are right about covers which makes the issue with the manufacturers of the covers Belle Vue ordered even more frustrating. Based on some of the information posted on this forum the cost and manpower issues with covers aren't significantly different to those faced when airfences were introduced. Every track found the money and manpower so it should be possible to do it again. I like the creative suggestion of 'waterproofing' the track. Most airfences are just deflated and left on the track, the putting up and taking down of covers is a totally different, cumbersome and time consuming job, something that cannot be done with half a dozen volunteers unless they have got hours and hours free. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I'm sure you are right about covers which makes the issue with the manufacturers of the covers Belle Vue ordered even more frustrating. Based on some of the information posted on this forum the cost and manpower issues with covers aren't significantly different to those faced when airfences were introduced. Every track found the money and manpower so it should be possible to do it again. I like the creative suggestion of 'waterproofing' the track. Has this ever been tried? PVA glue may not be the answer, but there must be something? You add it to a crop sprayer and spray the race surface during the final tyre packing stage.... Got be worth a try or two, even if the PVA doesn't work, something must?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Covers would have saved this meeting, ok, I know the rhetoric over covers, so perhaps a different solution... If, only 25% to 40% of the rain could have been prevented from being absorbed by the track, it would also have gone ahead... Surely, and i've mentioned this before to no avail, perhaps there's something that could be added to the shale when tyre packing to prevent water ingress.... Perhaps something similar to what gets sprayed on cricket wickets (when they mention its a glued pitch) Something like PVA glue, or something that helps seal the track surface.. Anyone have any thoughts/alternative methods to waterproof the racing surface (obviously, it has to be environmentally safe)? Would that not be a possible causing of riders finding to much grip when they lease expect it, we all know the dangers of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Okay, how many men are needed to sort the airfence and how long does it take? Only a few, just unclip the clips of the airbags to the fence and let the air out, probably half an hour( as long as it takes to walk round the outside of the fence and unclip say three clips per panel, then pull out the plugs and let the air out ). Have seen the job being done where there were only two or three people. You would need more people and time to put up or take down one cover. Putting the airbags in place or taking them away is a totally different and time consuming job. Edited August 22, 2016 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin wood Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Fred when you say there was little doubt the meeting would go ahead I think after 8 hrs of non stop rain heavy rain then there is a doubt.I missed my first match this season because I thought it would (a) get called off late or ( have to wait about 45mins after start time while they scraped the wet shale off like the Leicester match.The track has got good drainage but there is a limit.Trying to run the meeting was the wrong call it was always going to be worse conditions to the Leicester match and keeping fans hanging about is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Would that not be a possible causing of riders finding to much grip when they lease expect it, we all know the dangers of that. Once the rain has stopped, you would them lightly wonder wheel the surface.. I am confident the small amount of PVA glue involved wouldn't make the track more grippy than without the PVA being there... You are tyre packing until just before you would stop, then applying a really fine mist of PVA onto the outer surface of the track, I done mean flooding it with PVA, or even a paintbrush thick layer, just enough to keep 25%/40% of the rain out the shale and down the drains... Does anyone know if this sort of idea has EVER been tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Once the rain has stopped, you would them lightly wonder wheel the surface.. I am confident the small amount of PVA glue involved wouldn't make the track more grippy than without the PVA being there... You are tyre packing until just before you would stop, then applying a really fine mist of PVA onto the outer surface of the track, I done mean flooding it with PVA, or even a paintbrush thick layer, just enough to keep 25%/40% of the rain out the shale and down the drains... Does anyone know if this sort of idea has EVER been tried? Why don't you try it ? Then you can tell us whether it works and how much it costs, and the riders can tell us if it causes unwanted grip. Somehow I don't think we will be hearing a success story, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Why don't you try it ? Then you can tell us whether it works and how much it costs, and the riders can tell us if it causes unwanted grip. Somehow I don't think we will be hearing a success story, but we'll see. ****************||******************* Brief passage from cricket groundsman.. he ECB's playing regulations for the 2006 season include provision for the use of "Surface Stabilisation Agents" on one-day pitches, in an attempt to produce more durable surfaces. "The PVA glue binds and seals the surface," says Alan Fordham, the ECB's first-class cricket operations manager. "Glue pitches were a hot topic at a recent groundsmen's conference and a number of groundsmen have shown interest in conducting their own trials. The aim is to try to produce a pitch that remains the same for both sides and does not deteriorate." The glue, which is readily available at DIY stores, is sprayed on to the entire pitch in quantities of between five and 10 litres per 15 litres of water. The surface dries hard within two hours, giving the wicket a glaze and turning it grey. So, you wouldn't use that sort of ratio...!! I will discuss with someone to see if it's viable to test.. Edited August 22, 2016 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 What the hell happened to this thread. Jeeez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 PVA glue has only been used on cricket pitches in fairly recent times and as far as I know it is only permitted for one day matches. As I understand it, the glue is only used in the wicket area and its purpose is to bind the surface together and to stop it deteriorating over the course of a match. It doesn't seem to be anything to do with waterproofing the pitch. In fact as a water based glue it seems to me it is likely to dissolve if you put it down on a wet track. With regard to track covers I think people are under estimating the square meterage of a Speedwáy track which would taken a lot of covering. It takes manual labour but obviously the time taken depends on the number of volunteers available. A lot of tracks struggle to get enough track staff as it is ( when did anyone last see a full squad of track rakers at Coventry for example ?) and to get them to do a lot of heavy lifting would IMO be a bid ask. You can only push volunteers so far . Before people start shooting from the hip about all this it seems to me to be more sensible to wait until we know more about how big these things are and what method is used to put them down and pick them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 What the hell happened to this thread. Jeeez I think it got stuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) PVA glue has only been used on cricket pitches in fairly recent times and as far as I know it is only permitted for one day matches. As I understand it, the glue is only used in the wicket area and its purpose is to bind the surface together and to stop it deteriorating over the course of a match. It doesn't seem to be anything to do with waterproofing the pitch. In fact as a water based glue it seems to me it is likely to dissolve if you put it down on a wet track. With regard to track covers I think people are under estimating the square meterage of a Speedwáy track which would taken a lot of covering. It takes manual labour but obviously the time taken depends on the number of volunteers available. A lot of tracks struggle to get enough track staff as it is ( when did anyone last see a full squad of track rakers at Coventry for example ?) and to get them to do a lot of heavy lifting would IMO be a bid ask. You can only push volunteers so far . Before people start shooting from the hip about all this it seems to me to be more sensible to wait until we know more about how big these things are and what method is used to put them down and pick them up. PVA glue is water resistant when it has gone off.. If you then apply water and agitation, such as brushing, scarifying it rightly dissolves.. My point being, if it can stop the ingress of only 30% of rain during a day, then it might be enough to save a speedway meeting.. We need to try and find something that works if covers are to expensive/cumbersome/Labour intensive to be a workable solution.. Can anyone think of anything else that could be applied by spraying, that won't kill any seals, Dolphins, Ants, Newts and Worms? Edited August 22, 2016 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horneymikh Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Did any of the riders do a track walk? We got there at about 6.30 and it didn't look like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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