So Who Is Going To Win The El In 2016?

[BWitcher]

I'm not relying on 'in a way' I am relying on a club captain stating the team plan.

 

I don't know enough about foreign league speedway, I couldn't tell you who rides for or who or whether attendance's have increased or as in the UK decreased since the qualifier and cup format was introduced.

 

Why don't they have a qualifier and cup for the championship in premier league football or any other league in the UK for that matter? Why don't they decide the world individual championship with qualifiers and a cup final?

 

 

Exactly, you don't know enough.

 

Now I am assuming the people who know best are the ones running the clubs.... and they have decided a playoff system is best.

 

Why would they do that?

Edited August 15, 2016 by BWitcher

[ouch]

Dead rubber against Peterborough Panthers the perfect opportunity for Ipswich Witches to work on set-ups, says Danny King

21/05/16

 

Second leg of the elite shield was described as a dead rubber by some.

18/3/16

 

 

Thats pretty much the season over now.

Were racing for pride now and we need to put on some better performances at home because its not good to watch for the crowd.

9/8/14

 

Nothing to race for. Mike Bowden - Plymouth

04/10/14

[BWitcher]

Dead rubber against Peterborough Panthers the perfect opportunity for Ipswich Witches to work on set-ups, says Danny King

21/05/16

 

Second leg of the elite shield was described as a dead rubber by some.

18/3/16

 

 

Thats pretty much the season over now.

Were racing for pride now and we need to put on some better performances at home because its not good to watch for the crowd.

9/8/14

 

Nothing to race for. Mike Bowden - Plymouth

04/10/14

 

Whereas before you had dead fixtures from around 25% into the season.

 

Clubs would be introducing new signings just to give them a bit of experience for the future as matches didn't mean a lot.

 

Riders would be dropping their average for the following year as matches didn't mean a lot.

 

The dead rubber argument only enhances the playoff argument.... not weakens it.

[sparkafag]

Dead rubber against Peterborough Panthers the perfect opportunity for Ipswich Witches to work on set-ups, says Danny King

21/05/16

 

Second leg of the elite shield was described as a dead rubber by some.

18/3/16

 

 

Thats pretty much the season over now.

Were racing for pride now and we need to put on some better performances at home because its not good to watch for the crowd.

9/8/14

 

Nothing to race for. Mike Bowden - Plymouth

04/10/14

 

 

Sorry “ Second leg of the Elite Shield described as dead rubber by some” isn’t a club statement nor is there any kind of relevance, context or tone to that comment, and I don’t even know who said “that’s pretty much the season over” but if it was said it would have been said once a sides season was over…..the clue is in the quote, do irrespective of Play Offs or not it would be said, it isn’t a Play Off exclusive statement and thus would be said in context of a league, so I assume that comment confirms a league season is also rendered meaningless for large parts?

 

The King quotes (wherever they came from) are also in relation to a Cup competition (given the date) when Ipswich were either hammered or knocked out, the comments are comparable to “playing for pride” when a season is over, as with Bowden’s statement, an oft used saying in football.

 

These kind of comments aren’t being made to deter people or in fact often used, or again, Play Off exclusive.

 

I appreciate some taking issue with Play Offs, but a lot of what is being said here is water weak, just as using football as a comparison is re their play off system/lack of.

Edited August 15, 2016 by The Mockingjay

[ouch]

I couldn't be bothered to go through old speedway stars so did a quick Google search and found these quotes in relation to speedway cup competitions.

 

I was asked if clubs had put out a statement saying nothing to race for or similar so the answer to that simple question is yes. The others I quickly came across were a bonus.

I find it odd that you needed proof to back up my post after your elongated fairytale about supposed attendances. I post without any factually evidence to back it up. None.

 

I was also suprised when to asked if clubs make these statements or is it just fans perception. JUST!!

Fans perception of how meaningful an upcoming fixture is, is of paramount importance and no way warrants the term just.

 

I not going to get into a discussion out the play offs as I knocked the argument out of the park over a decade ago. I did then and do now concede the point that thems the rules like it or lump it and as such I've never seen a play off meeting. I've seen bits and heard about what's occured but it's not for me.

Like I said earlier the few thousand we have watching now like the play offs and lucky for this forum (Fred aside) the rest have stopped going so have no needed to fill pages and pages of pointless arguments like we had years ago.

[orion]

I know there were dead rubbers before, that point has been acknowledged, along with the big crowd in the rain for the final, ad nauseum, I agree with you, no need to keep bringing it up!

 

The problem is the meetings that aren't now dead rubbers because teams are trying to qualify for the cup don't draw the crowds. Coventry v Swindon for example. I think Swindon were maybe 5th and although Coventry appeared to be floundering they had almost the same number of points from the same number of meetings as Belle Vue last season. In other words a vital cup qualifier and Coventry is only 90mins drive from Swindon, it was almost a derby as well!

 

The so called important meetings for teams finishing top don't draw the crowds either and that is far more damning as in a proper league teams in contention for the championship draw bigger and bigger crowds as the title draws closer and closer while the qualifier and cup format kills that stone dead and the example of KL at Belle Vue a couple of seasons ago.

Lol!

 

Well if you stick your fingers in your ears and go lar lar lar over and over then I can see why you don't think it happened!

 

Oh hang on, here it is

 

 

95mins

 

The best bit is when Lemon takes the piss at the end.

 

You'd better stick your fingers in your ears again ha ha.

As suspected he never said that at all ..you said he admitted losing matches on purpose ...what he said was that Belle Vue beat Swindon when they were in a weak state before getting stronger .. another made up story from mr jackanory.

Edited August 15, 2016 by orion

[stevebrum]

Aaaha ha ha ha

That's even better than brum ha ha

Making stuff up as usual I see.

 

[orion]

Making stuff up as usual I see.

 

Nothing has change with him ...it's that bad he has make other accounts to try to back him up with his long tails ...what was last week's one talking to Woffy etc

[stevebrum]

Nothing has change with him ...it's that bad he has make other accounts to try to back him up with his long tails ...what was last week's one talking to Woffy etc

With a predictable dull retort.

As expected.

[orion]

With a predictable dull retort.

As expected.

Yea you almost know what he's going to put ...can't wait intill next week's made up story

[sparkafag]

I couldn't be bothered to go through old speedway stars so did a quick Google search and found these quotes in relation to speedway cup competitions.

 

I was asked if clubs had put out a statement saying nothing to race for or similar so the answer to that simple question is yes. The others I quickly came across were a bonus.

I find it odd that you needed proof to back up my post after your elongated fairytale about supposed attendances. I post without any factually evidence to back it up. None.

 

I was also suprised when to asked if clubs make these statements or is it just fans perception. JUST!!

Fans perception of how meaningful an upcoming fixture is, is of paramount importance and no way warrants the term just.

 

I not going to get into a discussion out the play offs as I knocked the argument out of the park over a decade ago. I did then and do now concede the point that thems the rules like it or lump it and as such I've never seen a play off meeting. I've seen bits and heard about what's occured but it's not for me.

Like I said earlier the few thousand we have watching now like the play offs and lucky for this forum (Fred aside) the rest have stopped going so have no needed to fill pages and pages of pointless arguments like we had years ago.

Couldn't be bothered or can't find statements often made by clubs?... I needed proof of said statements because you said they are oft made, proof verifes that claim, it's a claim you aren't entitled to without proof as youre attempting to impose it as fact and it isn't...

 

I also said "just some fans" in an attempt to be polite by just some I was meaning you

 

The odd fairytale is no different to claims attendance's would up without play offs, odd then you wouldn't take umbridge with those claims...

 

Grand job not talking about the Play Offs though, really putting it out the park

Edited August 15, 2016 by The Mockingjay

[ouch]

You asked for quotes I gave you quotes if you don't like them take it up with the author, don't shoot the messenger

 

If you meant just some fans to mean just me then you obviously read next to nothing on this very forum.

 

Fair play to owning up to your fairytale, most would keep it going.

[sparkafag]

You asked for quotes I gave you quotes if you don't like them take it up with the author, don't shoot the messenger

 

If you meant just some fans to mean just me then you obviously read next to nothing on this very forum.

 

Fair play to owning up to your fairytale, most would keep it going.

Nah you can't even validate your own thoughts

 

And true, Fred's pushing on with his fairytale.

[E I Addio]

In answer to a question about Swindon being crap and losing at home to Belle Vue in the qualifiers Rossiter, with a slapped arse expression on his face, admits it was when they were changing to fit Darcy in.

ha!

What he actually said was "it was in the period when we were changing before Darcy came along" . He didn't say they were changing to fit Darcy in and he certainly didn't say anything about losing matches deliberately.

Nothing has change with him ...it's that bad he has make other accounts to try to back him up with his long tails ...what was last week's one talking to Woffy etc

Poor ol' Fred still doesn't realise that you can't change a fairytale into truth by putting lol or aha ha into it . Edited August 15, 2016 by E I Addio

[E I Addio]

Have a read back at how Swindon managed to fit ward in and then tell me its a fairytale.

We are not discussing how Swindon managed to fit Ward in. We are discussing your claim in post 232 that the Swindon manager admitted on national television that they had been deliberately losing qualifiers to fit Ward in. That is not what he said at all . It was a porkie on your part.

Edited August 15, 2016 by E I Addio

[BWitcher]

Just looking back through the thread to see if I had missed another onion gem and I read this post again.

 

I've been pondering this for a few minutes and the answer is bleedin obvious, as usual.

 

How do you know the cup makes more money? Makes more money than just the league championship, maybe? I doubt it but maybe. Makes more money than the league and the proper cup? Doubt it. Overall financially better? No, there is a reality that that the lower teams stay involved longer but the effect on crowds is almost imperceptible, certainly not the hundreds someone has claimed in an earlier post.

 

This more money thing, its not more money in total, it's the classic speedway thing of looking after the lower teams at the top teams expense?

 

In a proper league as the season progress beyond halfway the top teams get bigger and bigger gates as they push for the title and the also-rans just get the die hards and look on enviously with no hope for the rest of the season.

 

With the qualifier and cup format the lower teams and their die hard fans have the chance to race for the top 4 so their season is extended but its still only the die hards that go.

 

In the meantime the top teams who have already qualified don't benefit from the steady increase in crowds a normal title push generates.

 

Add in the lack of a proper cup with usually poor attendances for the first round but the quarter final, then the semi and obviously the final itself generates more and more interest and not just die hards go to the cup semi final and final do they?

 

Therefore it is not financially better for speedway overall, the money is spread out more evenly but the total receipts when compared to a proper league championship and proper cup competition is almost certainly less, particularly in a closely fought season.

 

 

So you keep telling us, yet those who have access to all the actual figures, in each and every major country that speedway operates team speedway, chooses to have a play off system.

 

I ask you yet again, but in the knowledge you won't answer, why would they be choosing to use a system that you 'claim' brings in a lot less money?

[orion]

I can just about live with stupid people misquoting but I detest liars.

You detest yourself ?

[E I Addio]

No mention of television, no mention of deliberately, in other words that is not what I said at all, it was a lie on your part. Why lie when its so easy to quote what I posted? I can just about live with stupid people misquoting but I detest liars.

Orion asked you to post a link and you posted a link to a television meeting. Why would you post a link to a television meeting if that's not what you were referring to ?

 

The hole gets deeper.

 

BTW we still haven't had details of the Swindon captain you referred to that you say said something to that effect years ago.

[sparkafag]

Just looking back through the thread to see if I had missed another onion gem and I read this post again.

 

I've been pondering this for a few minutes and the answer is bleedin obvious, as usual.

 

How do you know the cup makes more money? Makes more money than just the league championship, maybe? I doubt it but maybe. Makes more money than the league and the proper cup? Doubt it. Overall financially better? No, there is a reality that that the lower teams stay involved longer but the effect on crowds is almost imperceptible, certainly not the hundreds someone has claimed in an earlier post.

 

This more money thing, its not more money in total, it's the classic speedway thing of looking after the lower teams at the top teams expense?

 

In a proper league as the season progress beyond halfway the top teams get bigger and bigger gates as they push for the title and the also-rans just get the die hards and look on enviously with no hope for the rest of the season.

 

With the qualifier and cup format the lower teams and their die hard fans have the chance to race for the top 4 so their season is extended but its still only the die hards that go.

 

In the meantime the top teams who have already qualified don't benefit from the steady increase in crowds a normal title push generates.

 

Add in the lack of a proper cup with usually poor attendances for the first round but the quarter final, then the semi and obviously the final itself generates more and more interest and not just die hards go to the cup semi final and final do they?

 

Therefore it is not financially better for speedway overall, the money is spread out more evenly but the total receipts when compared to a proper league championship and proper cup competition is almost certainly less, particularly in a closely fought season.

 

Typical speedway, rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

So what's the answer? One for the clever ones at the bspa (lol!) but what it needs is someone with a bit of vision to come up with a way of spreading the wealth, one where the total income is at least the same as a proper league championship and a proper cup and the teams with promoters who for whatever reason can't be competitive are proped up without the total pot being reduced. Once the promoters are happy that they aren't losing out then it doesn't matter what the fans think but hopefully there will be something to fill the gap that would be generated if the thrilling race for 4th place was taken away.

 

 

 

 

Fairy tales, ask ouch.

[E I Addio]

?

 

Leigh Adams.

Link ?

?

 

 

If you want to justify your lie on the basis that in the context it was probably the gist of it then please, feel free, but you seem to be insisting on ignoring the context and just taking the post in isolation so you can describe my post as fantasy. I don't mind, either way you are a liar.

.

The bottom line is that in the link you posted Rosco did not say what you claimed he said. That's about all there is to it.