sparkafag Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Not if you get more people coming in to see more 'value for money' Racing. The vast majority of people wouldn’t know they were getting “value for money racing” because they aren’t familiar enough with the product to know it or that there had been a change. I am also curios to know how 13 heats at £14 is better value than £15 for 15 heats, for example In addition to that it is a 13 heat meeting that should be run in about 25 minutes? So it is about keeping riders happy, is it, or actually trying to keep fans coming through the turnstiles that I do genuinely believe help to pay the riders. Speedway needs a total rethink. It is supposed to be a family sport. Always sold itself on that. So by cutting two heats, cutting admission, it possibly wouldn't make a fan on his own dance at the saving, but what about the family of four. They could save a tenner even. I appreciate they are your views but you have said we all know, which means you are sort of imposing your views on everyone else and to be honest you aren't really clarifying this much, if anything it is getting a bit muddled. So, you think the removal of two races merits the reduction in price of £10.00 for a family? I am sorry I still don't see how this is either saving the sport or making massive savings for promotions. Edited August 4, 2016 by The Mockingjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) The vast majority of people wouldn’t know they were getting “value for money racing” because they aren’t familiar enough with the product to know it or that there had been a change. I am also curios to know how 13 heats at £14 is better value than £15 for 15 heats. In addition to that it is a 13 heat meeting that should be run in about 25 minutes. I appreciate they are your views but you have said we all know, which means you are sort of imposing your views on everyone else and to be honest you aren't really clarifying this much, if anything it is getting a bit muddled. So, you think the removal of two races merits the reduction in price of £10.00? I am sorry I still don't see how this is either saving the sport or making massive savings for promotions. So, please tell, we're sitting beside campfire with eyes open and ears wide... do you have a sure way of saving speedway from the grim reaper. You're keeping us in suspense... and on purpose too. Or are you simply admitting... we're all doomed? Edited August 4, 2016 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) The vast majority of people wouldn’t know they were getting “value for money racing” because they aren’t familiar enough with the product to know it or that there had been a change. I am also curios to know how 13 heats at £14 is better value than £15 for 15 heats. In addition to that it is a 13 heat meeting that should be run in about 25 minutes. Those who have left the Sport for one reason or another could be tempted back and they would know. Perhaps they might return because they can afford it. As for new Supporters - they could learn the ropes like the rest of us did. ................... and yes - if that is how long it takes - fine. People would have more time to do other things afterwards. Leaving it as it is is really working well isn't it? Falling Gates and possible closing Tracks - yes Mockingjay things are really rosey at the moment. A radical rethink is required. Will it happen? To be honest I don't think there is a hope in hell. Edited August 4, 2016 by The White Knight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Don't change anything, then things won't get worse than they now. The mad person doesn't think he's mad... I feel it's the same with fans who can't see no wrong with 2016 speedway. I must be mad... as I'm trying to argue about saving something that has already driven me away. I am trying to give ideas for saving a sport that, like a motor-vehicle awaiting the tow-truck for knackers' yard heaven.. and yet there are still some people on the roadway saying it'll start with a bit of a push! It is all but clinically dead, sir. Edited August 4, 2016 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The introduction of sensible and fair Rules and Regulations would be a start. Bikes, Engines and Tracks should also be looked at with a view to make Racing safer too. Oh how I yearn for the days when four Riders were hurtling around the Tracks of this Country throwing up dirt/shale. I went home covered in it many a time and I loved it. I don't suppose that nowadays, because of 'Health and Safety' and modern engines we could get back the smell of good old Castrol 'R'. Too much to hope for I suppose but all of this was part of what encouraged me to attend Speedway. Regarding my first point - I believe that it is essential that some changes are made. My last points are pure nostalgia and will never return. :sad: The introduction of sensible and fair Rules and Regulations would be a start. Bikes, Engines and Tracks should also be looked at with a view to make Racing safer too. Oh how I yearn for the days when four Riders were hurtling around the Tracks of this Country throwing up dirt/shale. I went home covered in it many a time and I loved it. I don't suppose that nowadays, because of 'Health and Safety' and modern engines we could get back the smell of good old Castrol 'R'. Too much to hope for I suppose but all of this was part of what encouraged me to attend Speedway. Regarding my first point - I believe that it is essential that some changes are made. My last points are pure nostalgia and will never return. :sad: we are still using Castrol " R" dont know why its doesn't smell the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) So, please tell, we're sitting beside campfire with eyes open and ears wide... do you have a sure way of saving speedway from the grim reaper. You're keeping us in suspense... and on purpose too. I find claims such as “saving speedway from the grim reaper” quite hyperbolic in all honesty, it is the kind of phrase often used by some on here as some sort of way to add validity to their point when they attempt to impose the sports ills on others. I also wouldn’t attempt to try and know the ways to “save the sport” and claim that changing the race format if the way to do it and we “all know it” because I don’t believe that to be true. I do find it slightly fascinating when people attempt to impose such strong views and then get slightly uppity when questioned on them given they feel it is the kind of thing we should all know. I do think the sport has probably managed to find its place in the market and mostly sustained it for about 20 years now living on attendances in the 600/2,000 range on average most weeks and most tracks generally survive on that, it is a while now since we have had closures for things other than idiocies surrounding stadium locations/owners of stadia. In an ideal world attendances would increase but I doubt that a sport like speedway is ever going to see a huge shift in its core audience and I honestly flat out refuse to think things like the number of heats in a meeting or tape exclusions are the kind of things the vast majority of people who aren’t attending either know or care about, why would they? I do accept there might be a niche “older” audience who feel these changes would reignite the sport or bring back a generation of fans, in my opinion though that’s an audience that shouldn’t be pandered to now as they have either shown little loyalty to the sport or simply aged to the point they aren’t the target audience any more. I feel the “rules” that need fixed are teething oddities such as FTR in both EL and PL that generally only bother hard-core fans rather than the kind of things likely to save the sport. The best thing the sport could do is enforce more stringent rules re how clubs promote and portray themselves on social media and interact with their audience, the actual product is speedway that’s what it will always be, has been for years and will continue to be, the main changes should be around presentation and image the rest such as rules and regulations is allowed of humpty that doesn’t really impact people. I would also say I find it pretty fairly prices as it is, speedway is cheap and isn’t IMO, in anything like the position to take the decision that charging a family £10 less will shift the audience to make up for that of loss over the course of a season, if anything I think that probably would lead to serious issues re clubs short term future let alone long, it has been proven many times now charging less doesn’t instantly mean more people attend in the long term, and that doesn’t just apply to speedway. Those who have left the Sport for one reason or another could be tempted back and they would know. Perhaps they might return because they can afford it. As for new Supporters - they could learn the ropes like the rest of us did. ................... and yes - if that is how long it takes - fine. People would have more time to do other things afterwards. Leaving it as it is is really working well isn't it? Falling Gates and possible closing Tracks - yes Mockingjay things a really rosey at the moment. A radical rethink is required. Will it happen? To be honest I don't think there is a hope in hell. The key word re the people you are imposing the sport panders to is “left” they have “left” the sport and the sport has actually done ok without them, in the last month the general vibe has been healthy attendances up and down the country, thriving meetings well attended such as the PL4s, Pairs, GP and SWC, it might not fit narrative but that’s not the activity of a sport on it’s arse. People would have more time to do things after….what family is going to travel to a meeting that ends at 8 and then go and do something after it, what are they going to do? Go to the Cinema as well…..they have already consciously chosen to attend their evenings entertainment. You reference tracks might be closing, the tracks that might be closing are generally in bother because of stadia issues rather than as a result of dwindling crowds Do I think things are perfect, no, do I find some of this a bit doommongerish, yes. Edited August 4, 2016 by The Mockingjay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) I worry, looking at the crowds, many fans are in the autumn of their lives. They are the hardcore, and when they pop their clogs... I guess admission prices will go up even more. Resolving speedway's issues will never happen. It is a bit like completing every level of Fifa 2016. Everyone has an idea but are all pulling different ways. There is no quick fix. Edited August 4, 2016 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no-brakes-uk Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Bring back 13 heats, happiness is 40-38, monkey masks, world finals, sticking plasters for grips, jumpers for goalposts, chips for 20p and 'two-wheeling' slow racing on deep tracks because that wor 'proper speedway'. Edited August 4, 2016 by no-brakes-uk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) The bond between teams and their fans , for various reasons like doubling up/down , over use of guests and the mercenary attitude of some rides the bond has been lost and without it team speedway is pointless Strict regulations of engines with the ultimate goal of a stock engine and the elimination of the tuner dictating the sport. The reduction of admission for fans , make any excuse you like about the reason you can't drop the price but the fact is it's too expensive and there are some folk who can't afford it every week and there are some newbies who are put off by the price , it can happen and it must happen to move forward but it won't Edited August 4, 2016 by THE DEAN MACHINE 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Spot on moxey63. You and I have very similar views on Speedway. . Yes very similar views, namely that neither of you go anymore and are never likely to ever again. The way forward is not by turning the clock back. Edited August 4, 2016 by E I Addio 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The bond between teams and their fans , for various reasons like doubling up/down , over use of guests and the mercenary attitude of some rides the bond has been lost and without it team speedway is pointless Strict regulations of engines with the ultimate goal of a stock engine and the elimination of the tuner dictating the sport Doesn't matter what rules or formats they change, until riders and promoters get it into their heads that the fans are the important ones and actually acknowledge they exist the sport will continue it's downward slide. Used to be the case that a lap of honour was nearly always the case. With the exception of a handful of riders theattitude now seems to be "I might miss my plane to the next meeting". FWIW I'm totally in agreement with your last sentence too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 What I'd do is strip the sport back to basics: Exclude all GP / SEC riders with the exception of Brits Exclude all riders wishing to qualify for the GP / SEC Fixed minimum averages for foreigners of 4.5 Tactical Substitutes only (no double bubble) Friday / Saturday / Sunday race days Admissions prices set to £12 Fixed rates of pay according to position in the team (Example) No1-3-5's £200 per point No2-4's £100 pp No6-7's £50 pp Scrap the asset system 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The bond between teams and their fans , for various reasons like doubling up/down , over use of guests and the mercenary attitude of some rides the bond has been lost and without it team speedway is pointless Strict regulations of engines with the ultimate goal of a stock engine and the elimination of the tuner dictating the sport. The reduction of admission for fans , make any excuse you like about the reason you can't drop the price but the fact is it's too expensive and there are some folk who can't afford it every week and there are some newbies who are put off by the price , it can happen and it must happen to move forward but it won't Excellent Post most of my thoughts are similar,only my opinion though and like you say changes have be made to move forward but it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Yes very similar views, namely that neither of you go anymore and are never likely to ever again. The way forward is not by turning the clock back. I'm afraid you are totally wrong in my case E I Addio. Get rid of the 'Double Points' Rule and I would return tomorrow. I understand that Mr. Chapman is not keen on the Tactical Ride so I am calling on him to scrap it - do that and to Quote Arnold Schwarzenegger - "I'll be back". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 I'm afraid you are totally wrong in my case E I Addio. Get rid of the 'Double Points' Rule and I would return tomorrow. I understand that Mr. Chapman is not keen on the Tactical Ride so I am calling on him to scrap it - do that and to Quote Arnold Schwarzenegger - "I'll be back". And if he changes it to the old tactical sub system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The new format being trialled for next season seems to be a tactical lover's delight with substitutions any time a team is behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Yes very similar views, namely that neither of you go anymore and are never likely to ever again. The way forward is not by turning the clock back. Yes, and I seem to remember in earlier days that it was confirmed Moxey stopped going when he had to pay to get in. I think he either wrote in or sold the Speedway Mail. Not exactly a suitable force to listen to IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 And if he changes it to the old tactical sub system? I may not like it - but I suppose I would have to live with it. Why are you asking the same question again - I am sure I have answered it a number of times before. Preferably they would change it to absolutely no way of contriving to keep Meetings closer, and the Meeting would be decided by the Points scored on the Track. Surely that is the fairest way - and probably the cheapest too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 What I'd do is strip the sport back to basics: Exclude all GP / SEC riders with the exception of Brits Exclude all riders wishing to qualify for the GP / SEC Fixed minimum averages for foreigners of 4.5 Tactical Substitutes only (no double bubble) Friday / Saturday / Sunday race days Admissions prices set to £12 Fixed rates of pay according to position in the team (Example) No1-3-5's £200 per point No2-4's £100 pp No6-7's £50 pp Scrap the asset system Love it. Been screaming for ages that the way to reduce costs is to set the amount that clubs can pay. Its shameful that some clubs declare losses of tens of thousands of pounds each season. If riders are limited regarding what they are paid it is then up to them if they choose highly tuned motors or more reliable ones and will create a nice mixture of both again. It can't be that hard as its simple figures. A club averages 600 per home meeting so budget and build a team based upon 500 not 800 and hope for the best. Yes some riders will pack up, have to get a job, throw toys out of the pram but many love the sport and would still race even for half their current wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 What I'd do is strip the sport back to basics: Exclude all GP / SEC riders with the exception of Brits Exclude all riders wishing to qualify for the GP / SEC Fixed minimum averages for foreigners of 4.5 Tactical Substitutes only (no double bubble) Friday / Saturday / Sunday race days Admissions prices set to £12 Fixed rates of pay according to position in the team (Example) No1-3-5's £200 per point No2-4's £100 pp No6-7's £50 pp Scrap the asset system Whilst I agree and like your ideas...are points 3 and 7 legal? Does it infringe 'working rights'? I only ask as I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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