moxey63 Posted August 10, 2016 Report Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Domestic speedway should stop trying to compete with international events, the GP and World Cup. For starters, I prefer the bread-and-butter stuff, would rather watch riders doing it for the love of the sport than the love of themselves. Domestic racing won't recover, survive even, until the product gives a nice wave of goodbye to riders skipping meetings for commitments elsewhere. Make the rules more simple, stick to a race format that is the same for every match, each of the leagues. I don't like one suggestion of having different formats for each competition. It has been all done before and the sport should really steer clear of fiddling with different formats. Ditto changing 3, 2, 1 into 4, 3, 2,1 or whatever. No thanks. The season, in whatever country, lasts for as long as its league programme, so let's start giving it a bit of respect it deserves and align it with riders who are prepared to be here for every fixture. To the majority of fans the GPs and World Cups are just a bit on the side. They are nice to watch but club speedway has been left in tatters as some competitors save the best for these events and perhaps for other leagues they race. I started watching for the pull of the team ethic, and one of the reasons I lost interest was that it really does seem so unimportant, just existing to give riders (some of them) a living as they hop from one place to another. These are my thoughts, and I know we all have differing views.. which is why I can't see anything ever being resolved to everyone's taste. Edited August 10, 2016 by moxey63 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Domestic speedway should stop trying to compete with international events, the GP and World Cup. For starters, I prefer the bread-and-butter stuff, would rather watch riders doing it for the love of the sport than the love of themselves There is a thing called the National League where you can and watch riders do that, but even then most will have ambitions to eventually reach the Grand Prix/World Cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 How ironic, Hancock in this week's Star comments he might consider riding in the UK if there was a squad system and meant he only needed to do about 10 meetings a year. He could not be bothered to come to the UK for the SWC, so I hope the BSPA don't give this mans opinion any credence. He used British Speedway early in his career when other options were limited, but now the grass is greener in Poland and Sweden he basically seems not to care less about British speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 How ironic, Hancock in this week's Star comments he might consider riding in the UK if there was a squad system and meant he only needed to do about 10 meetings a year. He could not be bothered to come to the UK for the SWC, so I hope the BSPA don't give this mans opinion any credence. He used British Speedway early in his career when other options were limited, but now the grass is greener in Poland and Sweden he basically seems not to care less about British speedway. All the top riders are like this. Even thou I support Wolves it doesn't sit right with me that Woffinden can stroll back into the Elite league when it suits him putting a rider who is committed to a full Elite league season out of work. I understand the reasons why the GP stars don't ride in the Elite league,they tell us often enough, its a shame promoters can't see the big picture where these guys frankly don't give a stuff about the Elite League,although they are just as happy to shamelessly come back and use the Elite league simply for GP preparation when they have a bit of a bare calendar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 its a shame promoters can't see the big picture where these guys frankly don't give a stuff about the Elite League,although they are just as happy to shamelessly come back and use the Elite league simply for GP preparation when they have a bit of a bare calendar Agreed. I am not sure who said it, maybe someone on here or maybe it was Kelvin on Sky but I agree with what they suggested the answer is to plan a league around riders who are committed to riding a full season in the UK, even if that means most of the top names are not part of the picture. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 All the top riders are like this. Even thou I support Wolves it doesn't sit right with me that Woffinden can stroll back into the Elite league when it suits him putting a rider who is committed to a full Elite league season out of work. I understand the reasons why the GP stars don't ride in the Elite league,they tell us often enough, its a shame promoters can't see the big picture where these guys frankly don't give a stuff about the Elite League,although they are just as happy to shamelessly come back and use the Elite league simply for GP preparation when they have a bit of a bare calendar How big is the picture? The picture in Wolves case, will be increased attendances and possibly a Play Off Semi/Final and Title then a restructure of the side less Woffinden next season (with a slightly increased budget due to swelled attendances) if he doesn’t commit to the full year. The clubs are using the riders just as much as the riders are using the clubs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted August 11, 2016 Report Share Posted August 11, 2016 Agreed.I am not sure who said it, maybe someone on here or maybe it was Kelvin on Sky but I agree with what they suggested the answer is to plan a league around riders who are committed to riding a full season in the UK, even if that means most of the top names are not part of the picture. Isn't that where we are today? Really don't understand this 'used British Speedway' or 'don't give a stuff for the EL'. Surely the attraction is the deal that suits the individual, wherever that may be. Tai's return to the EL is a huge bonus and opportunity to increase publicity and attendances, irrelevant of the reasons. The SWC & BF are completely different debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) How can Tai giving us his presence for six weeks offer any added publicity to those who don't already know of his return - because we are speedway fans. I only found out by accident on Facebook. It wasn't splashed on SKY Sports, not a lot in the press or on the radio. It'll give British speedway another short-lived bit of interest and a lot of wonderment of many that it still allows itself such short term planning. We were always told that having a world champion would get all the media interested again. It didn't happen with Havelock, and I don't think it has with Tai's double. Wolverhampton, I believe, say it's been done at the business end of the season, which in itself makes the other part that fans have been shelling out for just talk, chatter, practice. Therefore have fans cottoned on to this and that's why crowds are thin. If the folk that run the sport treat matches pre-Play-offs like this, are the Play-Offs based on crowd turn-out a success or are they fans that would be there but feel the qualifying matches are just foreplay. The pre-season Speedway Star debate and the excellent special they produce on team forecasts is totally irrelevant a month in to the season. The bigger kidders in the glory stakes know precisely the right time to ditch one rider with another who will give them the lift, the brief impact of being there at the death, the glory seekers, the extra fans who had in the preceding few months had picked-and-chose their fixtures as the others didn't really mean that much. But they'll be there for the Play-Offs. The Pay-Offs produce high crowds, but why doesn't the sport try to place itself to get those people there throughout the year. It proves they exist. The Woffinden return is the same, opportunity to get someone in who will win you something and also get a few fans in for a few meetings. Short-term speedway again... and the reason why the sport, 90 years on, is run in out-dated stadiums where "offices" are porta-cabins. Fans will applaud it, the type who cheer a well-chosen guest for an injured rider because it favours them, but looking at it broadly.. we all know what will happen next year... Tai will stay away, maybe for the last six weeks, but like now, the act to see out the last six weeks of the season and which suits all parties involved will rear its ugly head. My opinion, if you want to spread to a wider audience, the sport will suffer. Edited August 12, 2016 by moxey63 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Why would a lower level sport be splashed all over Sky Sports News or the radio during the Olympics or a high content period (transfer window). The idea Speedway is going to take main level content away from either sport is utterly ridiculous, nor should it be expected this move would be doing that, it is a straw man argument. What the inclusion of the “World Champion” will do is increase the minuscule level of attention the sport does actually receive, because with all due respect Woffinden is far more promotable than Kylmapkorpi – it will increase interest levels to a higher level than they were previously (the volume of traffic on this forum when the name Woffinden is mentioned confirms that, as I would expect will the increased attendances when he is racing). You could also argue that if you put together enough “short term” plans you are actually securing a longer term as “short term” is simply the thing that keeps things breathing and ticking along weekly and thus the supposed short term plans are just the general day to day activity of the sport, but the kind of thing that will be dismissed. The argument that Play Offs attract more people so more should be there all the time could apply to clubs who make Cup Finals, draw big EPL teams in the FA Cup (all of which are sports with a far higher profile and events shown to a wider audience that don’t keep them coming back). It is now the norm people turn out for bespoke events and events that are perceived to be “big” it is why most sports are doing all they can to increase what are seen as “big events” to get more people in at a higher volume when the going is good because the culture of a high audience level attending lower level sports on a weekly basis is dying out. Edited August 12, 2016 by The Mockingjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Exactly Mockingjay... speedway's future plans are for the next six weeks. What happens next... well, hopefully people who don't die in the winter will just turn up again next March. The sport is safe. I know fans and sports target big events. For example, British speedway's national title, one that we expect to claim some pride, it was that much of a "big" event - even Tai stayed at home to watch it. Least he's back now, so we're safe for six weeks. Edited August 12, 2016 by moxey63 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 (edited) Exactly Mockingjay... speedway's future plans are for the next six weeks. What happens next... well, hopefully people who don't die in the winter will just turn up again next March. The sport is safe. I know fans and sports target big events. For example, British speedway's national title, one that we expect to claim some pride, it was that much of a "big" event - even Tai stayed at home to watch it. Least he's back now, so we're safe for six weeks. It doesn’t work like that but it is a narrative you have written for yourself and are now firmly entrenched in so much so that what you are saying doesn't even correlate with this signing, it is a club signing a rider the reaction to it on here, like with most news is utterly hysterical from the same doom mongers who grow ever more desperate to put a negative tint on all things speedway. You have decided the sport has little future and and it doesn’t matter one single iota what occurrence takes place you will find a way to decide that speedway is screwed and that’s it and then twist and impose your opinion on most occurrences, shame the rest of us just can’t be left to get on with enjoying it… But yes, the sport probably will thrive for the next 6 weeks (which I am sure will fill you with utter joy and delight) following on from the last 6 weeks and the success of the 4s Weekend, World Cup, Grand Prix and general attendance levels, stick them together you then have a seasons which has generally been quite well received and brought a feeling of feel good back to the sport in this country (for most hard core fans). I would say there is actually a feel good factor around just now - so as speedway fans let's all enjoy the next few exciting weeks of the season, the Play Offs, should be a great 6 weeks or so. Edited August 12, 2016 by The Mockingjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 We disagree, but everyone has their opinions. Just that I dropped into this thread because its title, what needed to be done to save 2017. Wasn't just me being negative... I take your points on board though. It depends on how you look at the sport as to whether it has a life or not. But let's just enjoy the next six weeks... we may be dead come next March and won't have to worry. And that's where I came in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 We disagree, but everyone has their opinions. Just that I dropped into this thread because its title, what needed to be done to save 2017. Wasn't just me being negative... I take your points on board though. It depends on how you look at the sport as to whether it has a life or not. But let's just enjoy the next six weeks... we may be dead come next March and won't have to worry. And that's where I came in... Again, ridiculous, there is very little to suggest the sport will be dead or won’t come to tapes in 2017, but you keep on at it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanF Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Here is my radical idea for 2017, and it presumes we remain with an Elite League of 8 and a PL of 13. All teams are built to PL standards, or a slightly higher number if the PL teams are comfortable with it. Each Elite League team nominates one "designated" rider in addition. For example, Wolves may nominate Tai Woffinden etc. All teams in both divisions ride all other teams in both leagues, home and away. This gives 20 home and 20 away meetings. For each meeting between two EL teams, the teams may replace any rider from their team with their designated rider. So again using Wolves as an example, versus Poole they would replace Clegg with Woffinden. This system would allow the spectators to get their weekly speedway fix, and allow the riders who want to keep busy 40 league meetings a year. It would also allow the "superstars" to ride a 14 meeting season which would allow more of them to commit to the UK. I don't know how practical it is, but I think it is an interesting concept. I also think that this format would bring a workable promotion and relegation system closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Drag the sport into the 21st century and understand that the internet exists, stop marketing it as a "family night out", promotors start promoting and not just preaching to the converted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Drag the sport into the 21st century and understand that the internet exists, stop marketing it as a "family night out", promotors start promoting and not just preaching to the converted.Any real concrete evidence ? to really say be progressive then things will improve? any thoughts Jonny? this myth of bringing in new people (fans) is not reality to be honest the hard core of fans keep clubs going in Britain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) The thing is with speedway, so-called promoters haven't the time to promote their hobby,as there real business need all/most of their day. Usually speedway is left to fans who lend a hand and then we wonder why some of the things that go wrong actually do. Then again,promoters probably would have no clue either. In the local papers and even in yesterday's Mirror, stock car racing was being advertised for over the August Bank Hols. Now, promoters of our sport leave it to regular fans to promote it. "Bring a friend" is normally the advice from promoters, and save your club. It tries to be a professional sport, glossy programme being put before the show on the track, and surely it should be the other way. Edited August 13, 2016 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 There needs to be changes to the bikes as soon as possible I watched heat 9 of last Monday's Wolves match( on their web site ) and even PK was fighting the bike and had trouble keeping the front wheel down at times .If a rider with his experience can't control these bikes something must be done and quickly ,it must be no fun for riders when they live in fear of being fired at the fence at any moment . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 There needs to be changes to the bikes as soon as possible I watched heat 9 of last Monday's Wolves match( on their web site ) and even PK was fighting the bike and had trouble keeping the front wheel down at times .If a rider with his experience can't control these bikes something must be done and quickly ,it must be no fun for riders when they live in fear of being fired at the fence at any moment . Change has to come from the F.I.M so no chance Here is my radical idea for 2017, and it presumes we remain with an Elite League of 8 and a PL of 13. All teams are built to PL standards, or a slightly higher number if the PL teams are comfortable with it. Each Elite League team nominates one "designated" rider in addition. For example, Wolves may nominate Tai Woffinden etc. All teams in both divisions ride all other teams in both leagues, home and away. This gives 20 home and 20 away meetings. For each meeting between two EL teams, the teams may replace any rider from their team with their designated rider. So again using Wolves as an example, versus Poole they would replace Clegg with Woffinden. This system would allow the spectators to get their weekly speedway fix, and allow the riders who want to keep busy 40 league meetings a year. It would also allow the "superstars" to ride a 14 meeting season which would allow more of them to commit to the UK. I don't know how practical it is, but I think it is an interesting concept. I also think that this format would bring a workable promotion and relegation system closer. Quite like radical ideas here's mine How about having a meeting 15 heats in duration but divided into 3 segments of 5 races. At the end of 5 races the team with the most points would earn 1 point, if its level a runoff between 2 riders would decide the point. Then after heat 5 the scores are reset to zero and we start again for the 2nd set of races. Teams or to be of 6 or riders 7 riders with a race format similar to what we have now. All team members must have to have 3 programmed rides, tactical subs when a team is 6 behind, only 1 tactical sub ride per rider during all 15 heats and only 1 run off ride if required. Not all the meat on the bones I know and maybe a bit bonkers but its different and would keep matches relevant until the later heats. Any thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 14, 2016 Report Share Posted August 14, 2016 Change has to come from the F.I.M so no chance Quite like radical ideas here's mine How about having a meeting 15 heats in duration but divided into 3 segments of 5 races. At the end of 5 races the team with the most points would earn 1 point, if its level a runoff between 2 riders would decide the point. Then after heat 5 the scores are reset to zero and we start again for the 2nd set of races. Teams or to be of 6 or riders 7 riders with a race format similar to what we have now. All team members must have to have 3 programmed rides, tactical subs when a team is 6 behind, only 1 tactical sub ride per rider during all 15 heats and only 1 run off ride if required. Not all the meat on the bones I know and maybe a bit bonkers but its different and would keep matches relevant until the later heats. Any thoughts Cyril Crane - 1969 or 70. Remember reading it in the SStar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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