steve roberts Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 The race format has changed since the days of the second half. These days the top men have raced each other at least twice, usually three times by the end of the match. Is there really going to be the same interest in seeing them race yet again in the second half. I used to like all the old palava like scratch races , Golden Helmet , Juniors and so on but times have changed and you can't put the clock back. I understand that appears to be the present climate of thinking and economics. However I haven't attended a speedway for 12 years due to re-location and I wouldn't consider getting into my car and driving to my nearest track (Sheffield from York) for fifteen heats of racing. Not value for money in my opinion. Personally twenty heats of racing (in whatever format) suggests a better return on my admission and petrol money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I understand that appears to be the present climate of thinking and economics. However I haven't attended a speedway for 12 years due to re-location and I wouldn't consider getting into my car and driving to my nearest track (Sheffield from York) for fifteen heats of racing. Not value for money in my opinion. Personally twenty heats of racing (in whatever format) suggests a better return on my admission and petrol money. 20 heats of racing in individual meetings if that is the criteria, and the second halves which you miss are, to all intents and purposes mini individual meetings. Be honest and say you have simply got out of the habit. Many people do. It's happened to me in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) 20 heats of racing in individual meetings if that is the criteria, and the second halves which you miss are, to all intents and purposes mini individual meetings. Be honest and say you have simply got out of the habit. Many people do. It's happened to me in the past. I used to be able to walk to Cowley Stadium when I lived in Oxford which was a massive incentive. I used to travel extensively around the country following speedway but, yes, you are partially correct in your assessment but I re-iterate to encourage me to re-attend there has to be an incentive and the thought of getting into a car and battling thru' traffic for fifteen heats of racing offers me no encouragement. Edited August 5, 2016 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I would like each of our promoters to make their tracks the best they can for entertaining racing as possible for starters. I'd like them to consider the music they play, making sure it is loud enough and appropriate. I'd like them to get the best guys as centre green mic men that they can, who are entertaining, know the sport, know the riders, have rapport with the fans, are fun and totally bias towards their team I'd like them to make sure the stadiums are looking good, that their track shops have good quality, current, smart merchandise at decent prices that the fans want to buy. Give their supporters clubs a proper base and all the help they need. Make sure their programmes are interesting, a kids page, competitions, stats, fans page, supporters club page ... Then turn to the race format, if they're going for 6 man teams, as long as we don't have any more protected heats and riders end up with proper, fair averages that's what we want isn't it? I'd like the promoters and refs to give time for riders to do a victory lap and for riders to always do them too and celebrate with their fans. I'd like all clubs to do some sort of press conference or talk to their riders after a home meeting, win or lose, the fans want to hear what they have to say. I don't want to see the return of tactical substitutes because riders don't get their full compliment of races but maybe it would be interesting for the team manager to have to pick the riders for the 2/3/4 races and/or a losing team could choose gate positions in a race if 6 down as a small tactical positive? How on earth you could encourage or make all EL clubs have a NL or DL team I don't know but they should all do something to develop our youngsters, thinking particularly of Poole here who are one of the best supported clubs in the country who don't 'seem' to do anything? I'd love to watch and support some test matches at BV, Lynn and Peterborough to give our best riders good, tough meetings on our big tracks. But of course to put anything like this together is near on impossible with the GP series taking up so much time of the top guys, I doubt it could be fitted in Some nice ideas there...to your list of ideas, I'd like to add an electronic scoreboard. Whilst I understand the most likely reason we don't have it, is because Clubs want you to buy a programme and make revenue. However...the see the score updated after every heat at a glance, without having to buy a programme and religiously fill it in would enhance the speedway experience imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Some nice ideas there...to your list of ideas, I'd like to add an electronic scoreboard. Whilst I understand the most likely reason we don't have it, is because Clubs want you to buy a programme and make revenue. However...the see the score updated after every heat at a glance, without having to buy a programme and religiously fill it in would enhance the speedway experience imo. I recall that Coventry used to/still have (?) an electronic score board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 People on here have mocked the idea of returning to 13 heat speedway -some even jokingly (I think they were) calling for one heat speedway or two laps even. They often call me for having no right of even offering an opinion, as I no longer attend. But the very same individuals imply perhaps they and others could not be attracted by two less heats than the 15 now. There love of speedway as fragile as mine was, then? The short answer is no because there isn't anyone who has said they would stop attending. Some are saying a change to 13 heats wouldn’t shift the needle, have a huge impact attendances or merit a £10 decrease for a family. Is the marketing line “two races less” really the thing that is going to get non-attendees/newbies out the house… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) I am not aligned to the true story, but perhaps the proof that British speedway really does need to split from the Grand Prix riders and the multi-country racers, is highlighted by Belle Vue. A new stadium, a yearning to return to the Saturday night speedway last enjoyed at Hyde Road,and yet seem left to randomly stage matches on any day of the week they can fill in around available riders from both teams (inc opponents). Even if the Aces signed seven riders that could do Saturdays, their opponents quite rightly wouldn't comply just to suit the Mancs. As someone who still has an interest in the sport, and just five miles from Belle Vue, I am sometimes surprised to find that Belle Vue have raced, say that night or the previous one. Didn't even know they had a match on Wednesday last. So how does anyone know who doesn't know of speedway? The tail is wagging thew dog here when the dog has no control. The short answer is no because there isn't anyone who has said they would stop attending. Some are saying a change to 13 heats wouldn’t shift the needle, have a huge impact attendances or merit a £10 decrease for a family. Is the marketing line “two races less” really the thing that is going to get non-attendees/newbies out the house… Did crowds increase in 1993 when the league format was extended from 16 heats to 18? Edited August 5, 2016 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I recall that Coventry used to/still have (?) an electronic score board. Lynn have one but I never look at it unless I don't buy a programme. Many programmes are choca block with sponsor pages, of course they are important but often they are companies your every day supporter will never be able to use, imo the majority are better off on hoardings and kevlars. The programme needs to be mainly for the fans, years ago Lynn had their last page divided into lots of squares full of small sponsors, businesses the fans were more likely to use .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Did crowds increase in 1993 when the league format was extended from 16 heats to 18? So by your own admission a change of heat numbers makes little difference to attendances and thus you would simply be charging the fan base less over the course of a season? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) To encourage speedway fans to stop filling in programmes and stare at an electronic scoreboard is like asking a 50-a-day smoker to quit overnight. It's what a lot of fans attend for... So by your own admission a change of heat numbers makes little difference to attendances and thus you would simply be charging the fan base less over the course of a season? What are you talking about? I am simply putting an idea across to try and encourage savings to speedway. I am not saying that I am right, but the likes of the big branded goods in shops have done this - I mean, have you noticed you are paying more for a tin of Quality Street compared to 1995 prices, say... and yet the tin has shrunk and no body ain't noticed. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=quality+street+through+the+years&biw=1280&bih=909&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=tRT0X_BhCuq6wM%253A%253BNhDKU6npb3071M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.mirror.co.uk%25252Fnews%25252Fuk-news%25252Fnestl-hits-back-claims-quality-7025949&source=iu&pf=m&fir=tRT0X_BhCuq6wM%253A%252CNhDKU6npb3071M%252C_&usg=__zXIGm-wZF59rI_AJaFAxmaLWb4w%3D&ved=0ahUKEwi55p__-qnOAhVpIsAKHRKLCIgQyjcILQ&ei=M1ykV_mAO-nEgAaSlqLACA#imgrc=tRT0X_BhCuq6wM%3A Saving an individual a couple of quid, a family even a tenner, it doesn't sound a lot. But if an adult is going to the speedway alone because he can't afford to take his family, then the kids, the future of speedway, are being denied and the sport also being starved of its future fans. Maybe it won't work. But have you noticed, Swindon had a higher crowd when SKY were in town and charged just a tenner.... It was on TV, live,and yet people were active in getting up off their backsides and attending, cos the price was lower. Now, to say fans would stay away because of two less heats, it's like saying they could have stayed away because it was on TV. The price reduction perhaps helped sway them. Edited August 5, 2016 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) What are you talking about? I am simply putting an idea across to try and encourage savings to speedway. I am not saying that I am right, but the likes of the big branded goods in shops have done this - I mean, have you noticed you are paying more for a tin of Quality Street compared to 1995 prices, say... and yet the tin has shrunk and no body ain't noticed. Saving an individual a couple of quid, a family even a tenner, it doesn't sound a lot. But if an adult is going to the speedway alone because he can't afford to take his family, then the kids, the future of speedway, are being denied and the sport also being starved of its future fans. Maybe it won't work. But have you noticed, Swindon had a higher crowd when SKY were in town and charged just a tenner.... It was on TV, live,and yet people were active in getting up off their backsides and attending, cos the price was lower. Now, to say fans would stay away because of two less heats, it's like saying they could have stayed away because it was on TV. The price reduction perhaps helped sway them. Your post….I was answering the question you asked. You asked if a change of race format impacted attendances, no, not really. If a parent is going to speedway without their children they should do a bit of research because generally the majority of tracks don’t even charge for kids as it is. If you shave £10 of the price what you would end up doing is charging an adult who has been paying £17/16/15 £7/6 or £5 instead, clubs wouldn’t be able to sustain on that, the shock factor over the course of a season would kill most clubs. Just to reiterate, again, I haven’t once said people would stay away as a result of two less heats I have said it wouldn’t make new people attend or is the kind of thing that will shift the needle because the majority of people aren’t educated enough on the sport to know or care how many races there were before or are now. For instance, if you had a conversation with somewhere where you said “two less heats at the speedway now” if they knew what speedway was in the first place, they wouldn’t be wowed by it. RE price reductions and Sky, people generally attend events on TV, or they tend to it is the spectacle of TV that often sells it to people rather than the price as has been shown quite often with other sports and Speedway. For all the clubs are mocked re the way they go about their business, they clearly do research prices and their market place, if it was as simple as £10 less = more people every club in the country would do that, most sports would do that even Rugby and Football Edited August 5, 2016 by The Mockingjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 People on here have mocked the idea of returning to 13 heat speedway -some even jokingly (I think they were) calling for one heat speedway or two laps even. They often call me for having no right of even offering an opinion, as I no longer attend. But the very same individuals imply perhaps they and others could not be attracted by two less heats than the 15 now. There love of speedway as fragile as mine was, then? As for the Play-Offs... don't get me started. Oh, OK then. A complete pretense for several months of what are merely qualifying matches and fans kidded into paying good money to watch. The Finals bring out the crowds, but the qualifying matches that get us there suffer as any single match isn't too important, as losses can be made up later to make the top four cut. Usually it is the big lads who lag behind and then, like wrestling I used to watch on World of Sport, they get up off the ropes, make the cut.. and then, with several new additions, often lift the prize. That is why the Play-Offs drag em in. Those fans are like I was. I wasn't there for the conception... but I was there to cheer my lad being born. I was so proud. A proper dad. So as normal a old speedway fans wants to go back to how speedway was when he went ..what a shock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Play offs are exciting but there should be no double points or tacticals allowed in them imo. Straight meetings, not even reserve replacements this year given the balls up with reserve averages ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) So as normal a old speedway fans wants to go back to how speedway was when he went ..what a shock It's about enticing them (me) back as was well as attracting a new generation of fans...that's the dilemma that speedway faces today. Edited August 5, 2016 by steve roberts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Sid, I know what you are saying but Moxeys point was to reduce costs but cutting 15 heats down to 13 . You are not going to cut costs but cutting out 2 heats from the main event then having four heats and a final to pay for in the second half. If money were no object I would say yes, have a second half but the reality is its not financially viable these days, and won't be for the foreseeable future. Addio i know the purse strings are tight at every track so your point there is spot on.Also does the noise Health/Safety curfew come into it as well? for me this is why we are not bringing riders through no second halves not enough track time.I work with a Polish lad an ex rider he says tracks over in Poland are open for hours for the young riders to ride and practice.Also they get training on the mechanical side of things as well England as a speedway nation are light years behind. Edited August 5, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Addio i know the purse strings are tight at every track so your point there is spot on.Also does the noise Health/Safety curfew come into it as well? for me this is why we are not bringing riders through no second halves not enough track time.I work with a Polish lad an ex rider he says tracks over in Poland are open for hours for the young riders to ride and practice.Also they get training on the mechanical side of things as well England as a speedway nation are light years behind. Poultec are offering youngsters some mechanical experience in the speedway course they run ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 So as normal a old speedway fans wants to go back to how speedway was when he went ..what a shock No, just want to revert back to times when MORE people went. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 To encourage speedway fans to stop filling in programmes and stare at an electronic scoreboard is like asking a 50-a-day smoker to quit overnight. It's what a lot of fans attend for... What are you talking about? I am simply putting an idea across to try and encourage savings to speedway. I am not saying that I am right, but the likes of the big branded goods in shops have done this - I mean, have you noticed you are paying more for a tin of Quality Street compared to 1995 prices, say... and yet the tin has shrunk and no body ain't noticed. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=quality+street+through+the+years&biw=1280&bih=909&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=tRT0X_BhCuq6wM%3A%3BNhDKU6npb3071M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mirror.co.uk%252Fnews%252Fuk-news%252Fnestl-hits-back-claims-quality-7025949&source=iu&pf=m&fir=tRT0X_BhCuq6wM%3A%2CNhDKU6npb3071M%2C_&usg=__zXIGm-wZF59rI_AJaFAxmaLWb4w%3D&ved=0ahUKEwi55p__-qnOAhVpIsAKHRKLCIgQyjcILQ&ei=M1ykV_mAO-nEgAaSlqLACA#imgrc=tRT0X_BhCuq6wM%3A Saving an individual a couple of quid, a family even a tenner, it doesn't sound a lot. But if an adult is going to the speedway alone because he can't afford to take his family, then the kids, the future of speedway, are being denied and the sport also being starved of its future fans. Maybe it won't work. But have you noticed, Swindon had a higher crowd when SKY were in town and charged just a tenner.... It was on TV, live,and yet people were active in getting up off their backsides and attending, cos the price was lower. Now, to say fans would stay away because of two less heats, it's like saying they could have stayed away because it was on TV. The price reduction perhaps helped sway them. Why would you want to get rid of programmes, electronic scoreboards are just a nice addition to race nights surely? Something else they could put in progs, some do, is the merchandise available .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 The Play-Off farce of 2006 should have confined the double-point argument to history. Ditto the World Cup... when a country can come from behind thanks to The Joker and win the final, a point ahead of a side that, because they tried to win from the off, were never behind and never able to use The Joker. Queue BWitcher.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 No, just want to revert back to times when MORE people went. Times have changed, people have changed, young people need to be asked what they want really .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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