Sidney the robin Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Two extra races means added costs.. not forgetting the so-called superstars who are in heat 15. How many fans does it need in the stadium to pay for this race alone? Saving this outlay may even persuade some promoters to reduce admission prices a squidge or hold them back for the next few years. If I was trying to save my outlay, this would be one avenue I'd explore. People say it's two less races, but nobody complains when matches are called at heat 12. Reducing the heats by even two may be a way of giving the fans something more attune to £10 speedway than the wad they pay now. The sport needs to cut corners. Next would be engine tuning for domestic speedway, which I question that it needs or can afford. Needless money going out of the sport, It isn't formula one, and there must be a way to halt money swilling out of the sport that it can barely afford.Great post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Is that seriously the rule being proposed? Tac subs if a team is losing by any margin? If so, utterly ridiculous. Totally agree with you New Science regarding rushing meetings through being of no benefit. For a 7:30 start I would say 9:15 is a reasonable finishing time to expect. Block him mater .and dont be tempted to read his rubbisht That's right, we don't want sense or truth on the forum. We just want hyperbole statements that are utterly incorrect.. "You know a sport is in trouble when they keep changing the rules!" screams Gresham.... well, pretty much every single one of them is in trouble based on that argument but don't mention it as he'll have a hissy fit. Great post. If you want to really kill of speedway it is. Fans want better value for money, you think offering them two less races is the way to go. This is why promoters don't like asking fans things because they get such ridiculous responses. How about we just have two lap races? It will save on fuel costs, races will be shorter, you can put the two minute warning on for the next race when the tapes go up on the current one and everyone can go home by 8:15. Edited August 4, 2016 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 So it is about keeping riders happy, is it, or actually trying to keep fans coming through the turnstiles that I do genuinely believe help to pay the riders. Speedway needs a total rethink. It is supposed to be a family sport. Always sold itself on that. So by cutting two heats, cutting admission, it possibly wouldn't make a fan on his own dance at the saving, but what about the family of four. They could save a tenner even. Let us stop trying to put the future of the sport at risk because of the riders. We need to get back to maintaining a sport that its public can afford. The riders have too much power now. If they don't wish to race here for a lower wage, then what do you do - keep placing the future of speedway at risk, even one more track, just so it can keep its top boys. Now is the time to trim. I mean, we have no world champion riding over here... but is he missed? Now is the chance to put a plan together. To do it when there were real stars - Crump, Rickardsson, Hamill, Adams - would have been more noticeable. But we have never been so low on star performers, and I mean globally and not just in Britain. I am just trying to discuss ways to save the sport, that's all. Only my views. I have said it before would love to see the top riders grace Britain but those days have long gone.Have a plan, balance the books look to the future the riders will be of a lower standard but get the entertainment right speedway will be fine. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 You know a sport is in trouble when they have to keep changing the rules every year. Yea like Cricket and Football you mean ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Is that seriously the rule being proposed? Tac subs if a team is losing by any margin? If so, utterly ridiculous. Totally agree with you New Science regarding rushing meetings through being of no benefit. For a 7.30 start I would say 9.15 is a reasonable finishing time to expect. That's right, we don't want sense or truth on the forum. We just want hyperbole statements that are utterly incorrect.. "You know a sport is in trouble when they keep changing the rules!" screams Gresham.... well, pretty much every single one of them is in trouble based on that argument but don't mention it as he'll have a hissy fit. The story about the use of a TS was originally any team behind could use one, but that was changed on the night and the new format may well be 4 or 5. Each rider still has a minimum 3 rides of his 5 programmed rides. Quite agree as long as there is a pace for the heats, without drawn out periods of little or no activity. I exclude the track grading every 4 heats, as that maintains a more even track standard throughout the meeting. To start a meeting, and the main purpose for some is to 'get this over as quick as possible' defies what a genuine fan is going to meeting for in the first place. Spot on. I remember his attitude and responses to the many people, with actual experience and technical thoughts, on the use of concrete start gates. Attacked the ones who knew what it's all about and ended out being abusive as if was the only one prepared to debate his suggestions. Edited August 4, 2016 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Two extra races means added costs.. not forgetting the so-called superstars who are in heat 15. How many fans does it need in the stadium to pay for this race alone? Saving this outlay may even persuade some promoters to reduce admission prices a squidge or hold them back for the next few years. If I was trying to save my outlay, this would be one avenue I'd explore. People say it's two less races, but nobody complains when matches are called at heat 12. Reducing the heats by even two may be a way of giving the fans something more attune to £10 speedway than the wad they pay now. The sport needs to cut corners. Next would be engine tuning for domestic speedway, which I question that it needs or can afford. Needless money going out of the sport, It isn't formula one, and there must be a way to halt money swilling out of the sport that it can barely afford. Why stop at 13 heats ? Why not take your argument to its logical conclusion and just have one heat ? That will reduce costs even more and if that costs reduction is reflected in reduced admission, then on the basis of your argument we will have the crowds flocking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Why stop at 13 heats ? Why not take your argument to its logical conclusion and just have one heat ? That will reduce costs even more and if that costs reduction is reflected in reduced admission, then on the basis of your argument we will have the crowds flocking in. Why stop at 13 heats ? Why not take your argument to its logical conclusion and just have one heat ? That will reduce costs even more and if that costs reduction is reflected in reduced admission, then on the basis of your argument we will have the crowds flocking in.In the old format we had 13 races plus a second half and usually had decent second half finals.Now on a 15 heat format if the away side is getting smashed heat 15 is irrelevent the top riders have buggered off.The old format 13 races plus a few junior reserve races and a final that was usually pretty good this fifteen heat thing is a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 In the old format we had 13 races plus a second half and usually had decent second half finals.Now on a 15 heat format if the away side is getting smashed heat 15 is irrelevent the top riders have buggered off.The old format 13 races plus a few junior reserve races and a final that was usually pretty good this fifteen heat thing is a myth. How was it be pretty good ? 80 % of the crowd used to go home after the main match was over ,,,second halfs and juniors were irrelevant to most people ...the more heats in the main the match the better as people don't want stocking fillers any more . 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) How was it be pretty good ? 80 % of the crowd used to go home after the main match was over ,,,second halfs and juniors were irrelevant to most people ...the more heats in the main the match the better as people don't want stocking fillers any more .Were you there ? makes me wonder you have no idea second halves people used to stay In my memory did you never stay? . Holloway,Rossiter,D.Smart, ,K.Smart, Hewlett.and endless others rode speedway by riding second halves i presume you knew that or did you watch heat 13 everyweek and bugger off home? you talk some rubbish Orion . Edited August 4, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Were you there ? makes me wonder you have no idea second halves people used to stay In my memory did you never stay? . Holloway,Rossiter,D.Smart, ,K.Smart, Hewlett.and endless others rode speedway by riding second halves i presume you knew that or did you watch heat 13 everyweek and bugger off home? you talk some rubbish Orion . Normal Sidney ..starts a topic and the moment anyone puts out an opinion that's he does not agree with out comes the normal childish name calling ...no doubt we only a couple posts away from you have no knowledge and I know people who say you had no knowledge etc etc ....so predictable Edited August 4, 2016 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Normal Sidney ..starts a topic and the moment anyone puts out an opinion that's he does not agree with out comes the normal childish name calling ...no doubt we only a couple posts away from you have no knowledge and I know people who say you had no knowledge etc etc ....so predictableNo i said nothing nasty, dont twist things around dont be sad orion. Fine if you dont want to discuss no worries i was there second halves with Briggs, Ashby,Kilby, Crump,Autrey were you NO if you were you did not think they were important i did very MUCH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 One thing I would like to see brought in, which would give youngsters more track time, is mandatory junior teams after every meeting. Have regional leagues to keep the costs of travelling down, but try and get as many meetings as possible, obviously with injuries and weather holding some meetings up there will be the odd exception, this will get more youngsters more track time and this is what the sport desperately needs, more riders coming through. The NJL and MDL are excellent starting points, lets expand those. On race formats, personally I would keep 15 heats and go for six man teams. Have the first nine heats scripted where each pairing meets each other, then heats 10 to 15 is up to each manager, each riders has two rides, but any pairs allowed. A bit like the last four heats of the World Cup. The seventh rider will be a junior rider, available to replace any riders injured during the meeting. This might help the current rider shortage a little bit, but still need to run guests or r/r in the meantime until more riders can be brought into the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Were you there ? makes me wonder you have no idea second halves people used to stay In my memory did you never stay? . Holloway,Rossiter,D.Smart, ,K.Smart, Hewlett.and endless others rode speedway by riding second halves i presume you knew that or did you watch heat 13 everyweek and bugger off home? you talk some rubbish Orion . Yep! Used to enjoy watching the second halves personally. So did many of my mates around me...it was a time to relax and have a bit of banter after the main event and enjoy a bag of chips! Shan't repeat my reasons for being pro-second half. It's been well documented elsewhere on this forum. Edited August 5, 2016 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) IMO speedway has to accept that the so called big names are not coming back any time soon ,they can earn more money else where and as self employed men I understand that they have to meke the best living they can .The sport should therefore need to turn it's attention to matters that will help the sport and use the riders that want to race in this country and change and adapt rules to to suit that situation .Personally I have no issue where a ride comes from if he is willing to race here week in week out and not treat it as a fiil in if he has a window in in his racing diary,and wants a king's ransom into the bargian. The changes have to start with the running costs and work from there on. Control of engines ( stopping tuners sucking the cash out of the sport many ex riders making more that way than they ever did as riders ) riders are all obsessed with more speed and should not be allowed to dictate what happens in this area except for possible safety issues. Merging the Leagues regardless of what people say and I have no agenda one way or the other ( but hate the FTR with a passion ) I like EL or Pl racing just want to watch 7 EL riders again if the leagues remain separate if thay can't have a team of 7 EL riders then merging is a long term must. Value for money is vital and 15 heats is fine but you need to give good racing with equally match riders and machinery I often could not careless about the final result if we have had close a entertaining racing . People go to s/way for various reasons they like to see their team win and four men dicing in very close proximity almost touching each other not one of them with the deepest pockets half a lap ahead or being reluctant to race because the track can't accommodate their rockect ship powered bikes Edited August 5, 2016 by FAST GATER 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Personally, I don't want Watrose Speedway turning into Lidl Speedway.. Personally, I don't want Watrose Speedway turning into Lidl Speedway.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 In the old format we had 13 races plus a second half and usually had decent second half finals.Now on a 15 heat format if the away side is getting smashed heat 15 is irrelevent the top riders have buggered off.The old format 13 races plus a few junior reserve races and a final that was usually pretty good this fifteen heat thing is a myth. Sid, I know what you are saying but Moxeys point was to reduce costs but cutting 15 heats down to 13 . You are not going to cut costs but cutting out 2 heats from the main event then having four heats and a final to pay for in the second half. If money were no object I would say yes, have a second half but the reality is its not financially viable these days, and won't be for the foreseeable future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 I would like each of our promoters to make their tracks the best they can for entertaining racing as possible for starters. I'd like them to consider the music they play, making sure it is loud enough and appropriate. I'd like them to get the best guys as centre green mic men that they can, who are entertaining, know the sport, know the riders, have rapport with the fans, are fun and totally bias towards their team 😊 I'd like them to make sure the stadiums are looking good, that their track shops have good quality, current, smart merchandise at decent prices that the fans want to buy. Give their supporters clubs a proper base and all the help they need. Make sure their programmes are interesting, a kids page, competitions, stats, fans page, supporters club page ... Then turn to the race format, if they're going for 6 man teams, as long as we don't have any more protected heats and riders end up with proper, fair averages that's what we want isn't it? I'd like the promoters and refs to give time for riders to do a victory lap and for riders to always do them too and celebrate with their fans. I'd like all clubs to do some sort of press conference or talk to their riders after a home meeting, win or lose, the fans want to hear what they have to say. I don't want to see the return of tactical substitutes because riders don't get their full compliment of races but maybe it would be interesting for the team manager to have to pick the riders for the 2/3/4 races and/or a losing team could choose gate positions in a race if 6 down as a small tactical positive? How on earth you could encourage or make all EL clubs have a NL or DL team I don't know but they should all do something to develop our youngsters, thinking particularly of Poole here who are one of the best supported clubs in the country who don't 'seem' to do anything? I'd love to watch and support some test matches at BV, Lynn and Peterborough to give our best riders good, tough meetings on our big tracks. But of course to put anything like this together is near on impossible with the GP series taking up so much time of the top guys, I doubt it could be fitted in 😕 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) People on here have mocked the idea of returning to 13 heat speedway -some even jokingly (I think they were) calling for one heat speedway or two laps even. They often call me for having no right of even offering an opinion, as I no longer attend. But the very same individuals imply perhaps they and others could not be attracted by two less heats than the 15 now. There love of speedway as fragile as mine was, then? As for the Play-Offs... don't get me started. Oh, OK then. A complete pretense for several months of what are merely qualifying matches and fans kidded into paying good money to watch. The Finals bring out the crowds, but the qualifying matches that get us there suffer as any single match isn't too important, as losses can be made up later to make the top four cut. Usually it is the big lads who lag behind and then, like wrestling I used to watch on World of Sport, they get up off the ropes, make the cut.. and then, with several new additions, often lift the prize. That is why the Play-Offs drag em in. Those fans are like I was. I wasn't there for the conception... but I was there to cheer my lad being born. I was so proud. A proper dad. Edited August 5, 2016 by moxey63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Yep! Used to enjoy watching the second halves personally. So did many of my mates around me...it was a time to relax and have a bit of banter after the main event and enjoy a bag of chips! Shan't repeat my reasons for being pro-second half. It's been well documented elsewhere on this forum. The race format has changed since the days of the second half. These days the top men have raced each other at least twice, usually three times by the end of the match. Is there really going to be the same interest in seeing them race yet again in the second half. I used to like all the old palava like scratch races , Golden Helmet , Juniors and so on but times have changed and you can't put the clock back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) How on earth you could encourage or make all EL clubs have a NL or DL team I don't know but they should all do something to develop our youngsters, thinking particularly of Poole here who are one of the best supported clubs in the country who don't 'seem' to do anything? A system like that run by the Aviva Premiership would be worth looking at IMO, in that league you basically earn more salary and credits on the basis of meeting different criteria such as growth of business and promotion of players from academies. While Speedway doesn’t have the funding in place Rugby does to reward clubs with financial credits when academy graduates progress when criteria is met eg rewards if player plays International, World Cup etc it could possibly be the case that more “points” for team building were rewarded to a side if they are packed with “academy” projects and thus encouraging the idea sides are built for the long term with local talent and a higher points limit to allow them to be supplemented with a Lindgren, Holder etc. So say for example Joe X starts as a second half rider for Poole and then races in the team and achieves a 4.00 average Poole are given .5 that season for team building, the season after Joe X races for Team GB Poole are given .5, Joe X then races for a World Cup winning Team GB Poole are given +1.00 The tricky part would be finding a way to regress back from that stage when Joe X moves on or Joe Y doesn't progress or is dropped. Edited August 5, 2016 by The Mockingjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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