Woofy's Thoughts About The Team G.b. Set-up

[uk_martin]

Great Britain hero Tai Woffinden has again underlined his desire to see more done to help the team become World Cup winners.

Woffinden says the silver medal secured in the Monster Energy FIM Speedway World Cup Final in Manchester was a ‘good achievement’.

But the passionate reigning world individual champion says celebrations should be cooled a little.

“It’s a good achievement by the boys,” he said. “But I hate losing, I wanted gold and we could have won it on Saturday.

“I want to thank all the British fans for their support at Belle Vue, the track was amazing and all the boys did their best, we rode as a team.

“Yes, I’m pleased with winning a medal – but I’m a winner and the reality of it is we lost to Poland.

“Poland have won so many World Cups down the years because they prepare properly, they are well organised and have a structured approach – this is something we need to do with Team GB and I’ve been saying it for the past three seasons.

“It seems very little gets done to give us the best opportunity to challenge for the gold medal and, in reality, that’s what I’m in it for.”

Woffinden has also revealed he has funded his own World Cup meeting and won’t be claiming any expenses back.

“I’ve done it because I want people to know how much I put into it, all I want to do is help the British team,” he said.

“I funded my mechanics coming over from Poland and everything else, I’m not even going to claim any expenses.”

Scunthorpe-born Woffinden scored 19 of Great Britain’s points as they reached 32 – Poland scored 39, Sweden 30 and Australia 22.

He admits, however, he is frustrated by a lack of reaction to his previous proposals.

“I made in-depth notes which I sent regarding a five-year plan, I organised and funded fitness tests for the British boys and I’m not even sure if they were told about it, I couldn’t even attend a training camp in Croatia because I had already made plans for testing elsewhere at the time,” he said.

“I will say the training camp is a great exercise but it needs organising with more notice.

“I’m repeating what I’ve said before, but a structure needs to be put in place now – right now – for next year and the years ahead, but whether anything happens remains to be seen.

“I’m passionate about Great Britain and the World Cup, I’m passionate about my racing – and I’m passionate about winning. All I want is to see the boys given the best possible chance of winning things.

And quite an interesting follow-on on Facebook

 

I thought it best to start a new thread about this as where a conversation had started seems a little inappropriate now, and the gravity of this matter deserves a thread of it's own I think.

 

So, interesting comments. It'll be even more interesting to see what comes of it all.

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by uk martin

[Star Lady]

 

 

So, interesting comments. It'll be even more interesting to see what comes of it all.

 

 

 

I hate to be so pessimistic but rearrange the following letters T O W N

 

Just won't happen whilst there is so much self interest around the BSPA

 

I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong tho.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Star Lady

[A ORLOV]

 

 

I hate to be so pessimistic but rearrange the following letters T O W N

 

Just won't happen whilst there is so much self interest around the BSPA

 

I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong tho.

Unfortunately you may be correct, but I have a couple of questions.

Does the bspa receive any money from the GPs, SWC or other world wide competitions from the people who have been given the rights to run them. If not why not? In other sports some of the money from World Championships etc is fed back to the individual federations which can then be fed down to the National Squad and grass roots.

It seems in Speedway that any large money earners have been given away.

 

You can see from what Tai has stated what he has done and is prepared to do, but if nothing happens I can see him and others walking away from any GB competitions.

 

Are the reasons about the lack of training, help and progress the same as why certain riders ultimately refused to ride for Team GB.

Edited August 1, 2016 by A ORLOV

[BWitcher]

That answers quite a few questions and certainly takes a lot of the ammunition away from the Tai Bashers.

 

We now know why he wasn't at the pre-season camp, we also know he's organised and FUNDED fitness tests for the GB lads, seems it wasn't taken up.

[Daniel Smith]

 

Are the reasons about the lack of training, help and progress the same as why certain riders ultimately refused to ride for Team GB.

 

Yes

[uk_martin]

Does the bspa receive any money from the GPs, SWC or other world wide competitions from the people who have been given the rights to run them. If not why not?

 

My understanding is that the BSPA get nothing from the FIM or their promoters of World or European Championship events. Nor should they. My understanding is that the heirarchy goes along the lines of FIM -> ACU -> SCB. What the SCB get from the FIM / BSI, I have no idea. The BSPA's job is simply to run the leagues. The SCB is the "parent" of the BSPA, although there are several personalities who serve on both management committees, which is where roles / responsibilities get confused. The BSPA come in for the criticism because they are the public face of the league system, but I think that the Team GB matters are the responsibility of the SCB, as the governing body of speedway in Great Britain, although I may be wrong on this.

 

Whilst the responsibility of Team GB may lie with the SCB, the problem, as I see it, arises out of how the BSPA reacts to "their" (team's) riders being unavailable for EL / PL / NL competitions. When the BSPA throw a strop and decide that anyone (Scott Nicholls as an example) wants to ride in a non-league event (e.g. the SEC) that this constitues "withholding of services" for which the only "facility" that a team can have is a NL guest, and the rider himself can be suspended, then it makes it almost impossible for riders to escape the control of the promoters, which in turn cuts down on their chances to take part in the kind of meetings that allow a rider to develop to their full potential. Also, by allowing doubling-up, it makes staying in Britain too comfortable (do Craig Cook & Ben Barker spring to mind?) reducing a riders incentive to expand their talents in Sweden or Poland.

Edited August 1, 2016 by uk martin

[The White Knight]

Unfortunately you may be correct, but I have a couple of questions.

Does the bspa receive any money from the GPs, SWC or other world wide competitions from the people who have been given the rights to run them. If not why not? In other sports some of the money from World Championships etc is fed back to the individual federations which can then be fed down to the National Squad and grass roots.

It seems in Speedway that any large money earners have been given away.

 

You can see from what Tai has stated what he has done and is prepared to do, but if nothing happens I can see him and others walking away from any GB competitions.

 

Are the reasons about the lack of training, help and progress the same as why certain riders ultimately refused to ride for Team GB.

I think most/ if not all of the money (Profit) made at GPS and I think I am right in saying the Speedway World Cup goes to BSI.

 

If anyone is making money out of British Speedway it is them - not British Speedway itself sadly.

[Jonny the spud]

I haven't spoken to Adam in depth since the SWC and this is my own personal view.

 

Speedway in the UK will always be the poor relation, The NSS track was based on European sizes and produced great racing on saturday night, crowds flocked in, riders loved it, speedway as it should be.

 

In the last 40 years or so we've seen massive leaps in terms of machinery, riders equipment, availability of bikes /frames /supplies etc… It's probably never been easier to get started in the sport, the problem is that tracks are still stuck in the 60's / 70's in terms of organisation / presentation etc and the sports abject failure to move with the times in terms of social media exposure and advertising .

 

40 years ago the likes of Rye House, Lakeside, Eastbourne et al, were quirky little tracks that pulled in the punters week in week out; However since the (apart from the introduction of air fences and track suffices which become unrideable if it's spitting with rain) nothing has changed, nothing !

 

The whole world has moved on in terms of sport / entertainment and what people expect in terms of value for money but British speedway is still stuck in the land of Buddy Holly and the Dave Clark 5. There has been a massive failure to move with the times when there was money floating around and the reason that British riders struggle isn't that they don't get to race on European tracks enough, it's that British tracks don't resemble european tracks at all. Foreign riders get to race every week on big tracks and Brits get to ride at places who's biggest claim to fame is that they provide the best fish & chips in speedway.

 

in the past there was a lot of money in the sport, unfortunately seemed to make some people very rich while failing to reinvest in the most basic thing needed… the tracks. Get those right, provide the most basic standards of hygiene in toilets ( not rocket science), provide some decent ambience to go with the racing and for god's sake learn how to use the world wide web to promote.

[orion]

The trouble with Woffy is that if he's keeps skipping the his own nations final as well as his own league people will find his words quite hollow .

[BWitcher]

The trouble with Woffy is that if he's keeps skipping the his own nations final as well as his own league people will find his words quite hollow .

 

No they don't.

 

Only a very small minority.

[A ORLOV]

 

My understanding is that the BSPA get nothing from the FIM or their promoters of World or European Championship events. Nor should they. My understanding is that the heirarchy goes along the lines of FIM -> ACU -> SCB. What the SCB get from the FIM / BSI, I have no idea. The BSPA's job is simply to run the leagues. The SCB is the "parent" of the BSPA, although there are several personalities who serve on both management committees, which is where roles / responsibilities get confused. The BSPA come in for the criticism because they are the public face of the league system, but I think that the Team GB matters are the responsibility of the SCB, as the governing body of speedway in Great Britain, although I may be wrong on this.

 

Whilst the responsibility of Team GB may lie with the SCB, the problem, as I see it, arises out of how the BSPA reacts to "their" (team's) riders being unavailable for EL / PL / NL competitions. When the BSPA throw a strop and decide that anyone (Scott Nicholls as an example) wants to ride in a non-league event (e.g. the SEC) that this constitues "withholding of services" for which the only "facility" that a team can have is a NL guest, and the rider himself can be suspended, then it makes it almost impossible for riders to escape the control of the promoters, which in turn cuts down on their chances to take part in the kind of meetings that allow a rider to develop to their full potential. Also, by allowing doubling-up, it makes staying in Britain too comfortable (do Craig Cook & Ben Barker spring to mind?) reducing a riders incentive to expand their talents in Sweden or Poland.

OK, so if no or very little money is fed down to the grass roots training etc from the SCB, or with what woofy says is happening re development of the youngsters no wonder we do not produce enough top class riders and any that are any good go abroad where the big earnings are.

Edited August 2, 2016 by A ORLOV

[Trees]

So we are saying that our current promoters who are managing their clubs on peanuts compared to years ago and Poland and Sweden, need to all build themselves new, polishesque tracks. Tall order!

 

I don't personally know how fit the likes of Craig Cook, Danny King, Robert Lambert and Chris Harris are. Tai obviously thinks they don't take it seriously enough or don't do enough. Yes if he had arranged for them to have fitness tests with someone he knows, why didn't he tell the riders? That's a bit odd in this day and age .... he'a saying he still doesn't know if they'very been told? Why hasn't he asked them? All the other riders aren't stupid, they must know what they are or aren't doing and why?

 

As for funding, BSI money goes to the FIM, I wonder if there is a way of accessing some of this money for grass roots training, I wonder how it works? We never hear anything about this sort of stuff, perhaps the ACU or SCB do access it to run everyday as such?

 

I'll ask Rosco on the EDPpodcast, see if he knows.

[A ORLOV]

So we are saying that our current promoters who are managing their clubs on peanuts compared to years ago and Poland and Sweden, need to all build themselves new, polishesque tracks. Tall order!

 

I don't personally know how fit the likes of Craig Cook, Danny King, Robert Lambert and Chris Harris are. Tai obviously thinks they don't take it seriously enough or don't do enough. Yes if he had arranged for them to have fitness tests with someone he knows, why didn't he tell the riders? That's a bit odd in this day and age .... he'a saying he still doesn't know if they'very been told? Why hasn't he asked them? All the other riders aren't stupid, they must know what they are or aren't doing and why?

 

As for funding, BSI money goes to the FIM, I wonder if there is a way of accessing some of this money for grass roots training, I wonder how it works? We never hear anything about this sort of stuff, perhaps the ACU or SCB do access it to run everyday as such?

 

I'll ask Rosco on the EDPpodcast, see if he knows.

You could also ask him if any money is available to run training at a track, with riding style, fitness, bike set ups etc for youngsters as well as those knocking on the door of the GB team .

Edited August 2, 2016 by A ORLOV

[orion]

 

No they don't.

 

Only a very small minority.

i would say reading the opinion and debate about him missing the league and his own final i would said a lot more than a small minority think that way ..it just common sense .not sure by not riding in your own league etc etc is helping the sport in the uk .so as i said his words dont mean as much as they could do .

[Deano]

How does Australia presuade such a large number of motorcycle enthusiasts that speedway is the way to earn a decent crust? It's miles away from any league structure, but you manage to find them in every league. Perhaps learning how they do it would be a start.

 

Speedway is a bit like mens tennis at the moment, not many competitiors, but we are fortunate enough to get a good one once in a while. A team of them is asking a lot!

[arnieg]

OK, so if no or very little money is fed down to the grass roots training etc from the SCB...

There is no money from the SCB, it is an administrative body almost entirely funded by licence fees (for tracks, riders, officials).

 

If there is going to be any investment it will have to come from the promoters, and to be fair there has been some investment in the youth development programme (largely time on the part of Neil Vacher). There certainly seem to be more opportunities for youngsters to get track time than a decade ago. Ultimately the issue is funding, so it comes down to more sponsorship, bigger crowds or higher admission charges.

 

The single thing that will generate more British talent on track is getting more youngsters interested in taking up the sport, and the development of the British Youth Championships has been a positive step in that direction. But speedway is a niche sport that few people have heard of; and as long as that remains the case it will be difficult to get more youngsters involved.

[uk_martin]

How does Australia presuade such a large number of motorcycle enthusiasts that speedway is the way to earn a decent crust? It's miles away from any league structure, but you manage to find them in every league. Perhaps learning how they do it would be a start.

 

Speedway is a bit like mens tennis at the moment, not many competitiors, but we are fortunate enough to get a good one once in a while. A team of them is asking a lot!

 

Damned good points...just how do Australia produce so many good riders on a consistent basis without even any kind of league structure? How did the USA manage to produce the likes of Scott Autrey, Bruce Penhall, Bobby Schwartz, Lance King, Dennis Cigarless, the Moran brothers, etc etc, with barely more than a single 150m track at Costa Mesa to their name? How was it that a couple of years ago in Czech Republic, a team of kids from the suburbs of Daugavpils were able to wipe the floor with the best that Britain could offer?

 

it ain't all about building "Polishesque" tracks. There's more to it than that. Workington and Berwick are bigger than many Polish tracks. Sheffield's track is bigger than Gorzow. Kings Lynn is hardly small either. So having a big track is nothing new in Britain. It's what the riders do on them that matters.

 

Anyway, at least Tai Woofinden speaks more eloquently than Andy Monotone Murray.

Edited August 2, 2016 by uk martin

[The Master 88]

Introduce a squad system only 3 overseas riders allowed to race at any one time in elite league any none at reserve if they don't get enough points to stay in the team and they get dropped to res they go, and 2 in Premier and none in conference, And if 3 British riders ride in Poland then only 3 polish riders allowed in Britain, and so on in other countries, I bet they will soon start looking at taking on British riders, I am fed up of helping other countries produce and develop overseas riders, And how much money from British Sponsors' go into overseas riders funds, which helps them with better machinery, for Christ sake the Australian team are sponsored by a British Company, start to look after our own, every time we give a overseas rider a berth in our teams we give them another income and help them learn the trade, yet how many brits ride abroad, which limits there income so they have to ride in 2 leagues in this country.

we Have Ben Fund meetings have SWC team fund meetings. its only a idea,

[Fromafar]

Damned good points...just how do Australia produce so many good riders on a consistent basis without even any kind of league structure? How did the USA manage to produce the likes of Scott Autrey, Bruce Penhall, Bobby Schwartz, Lance King, Dennis Cigarless, the Moran brothers, etc etc, with barely more than a single 150m track at Costa Mesa to their name? How was it that a couple of years ago in Czech Republic, a team of kids from the suburbs of Daugavpils were able to wipe the floor with the best that Britain could offer?

 

it ain't all about building "Polishesque" tracks. There's more to it than that. Workington and Berwick are bigger than many Polish tracks. Sheffield's track is bigger than Gorzow. Kings Lynn is hardly small either. So having a big track is nothing new in Britain. It's what the riders do on them that matters.

 

Anyway, at least Tai Woofinden speaks more eloquently than Andy Monotone Murray.

These Countries have practice facilities that can be used every day .In GB there are very little opportunity to practice.Im sure there are many young riders that would practice a lot more if the facility was there.Poland be being a classic example of young talent coming through due to the facility to be able to practice most days.

[sparkafag]

I don’t think the issue is necessarily re how many foreign riders are currently in team places in British Speedway. As it stands there has never been a better chance for a Brit to be employed in a team, the ones that aren’t generally won’t be entering the conversation re Woffindens subject matter, so I don’t think it is “team place” related personally.

 

I would also question whether or not the PL is where riders “develop” as such, yes it is another step in their progression but the majority of riders who have progressed through the PL and went on to big things were quite developed by the time they ever reached PL Speedway, they were very good from a very young age. A decent case being Lambert and Woffinden it was accepted both would go on to bigger things and it was blatantly obvious from the first lap seeing them, just as it was Ward, Holder even riders like Batchelor to a lesser extent.

 

The riders who have “developed” in the PL generally have a pretty low ceiling IMO, Doyle apart, he is the general exception to the rule.

 

Britain’s biggest problem seems to be development from first getting on a bike to PL place, it is there where other countries are far advanced to Britain rather than the “PL structure” and if anything Team GB confirms that slightly - 3 members Lambert, Woffinden and Ellis all cut their teeth, or enhanced development outside the UK. It is in the early stages of development that “elite”/World Cup/GP riders are created IMO and there is possibly enough to validate that, there are very few home developed British protégés (in recent years) or riders who were earmarked for big things from an early age and delivered.

Edited August 2, 2016 by The Mockingjay