Grachan Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Tactically interesting, particularly the Doyle/Jonsson race that neither wanted to win. The commentators spoke of Doyle possibly being excluded, but had he been then Jonsson would have had to be too. If TS is allowed in the nominated rides (daft rule) surely Austalia, being 8 down after 16, should have had Holder and Doyle in the final 2 races, used Doyle as ts in 17 and, if still a possibility, used Holder as a ts in 18. Or is that not allowed. I don't see the problem with no joker, no ts and a full strength reserve you can use tactically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Correct Grachan. Lemon was tactically clueless tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 If you had a full strenght reserve to be used tactically could it be that the teams no 1 rider could be that reserve. I like the dea of the WTC being a 4 man team, with a reserve being theere in case of injury as now. Whether the reserve is under 21 or not...I'm open to thoughts at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted July 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Nope not allowed after heat 16, if a rider uses joker he's not allowed to in as a tac sub in a different race vice versa but you can do a tac sub and joker at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Nope not allowed after heat 16, if a rider uses joker he's not allowed to in as a tac sub in a different race vice versa but you can do a tac sub and joker at the same time Ah yeah. And Holder had already been used as a joker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay2PT Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Apart from that obvious heat I loved the commitment to RACING and NO crashes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 Thought places 1 & 2 would be highly contested but Swedes were a class above the Aussies, especially with the Doyle antics trying to get the joker & tac sub to get Masters out that heat, have to say fairly disappointed with the Germans, thought they'd do better on a big wide track. Heat 16 was almost beautiful, Holder on joker had no answer for Hancock & Lindback. While the yellow helmet failed for Denmark earlier this week due to gate positions it worked for Sweden tonight. Be interesting to see who get it in the race off, if the Aussie's don't I think they'll struggle. You basically concede the first four heats if yellow, but can use joker early and hit back. On a side note, if the race-off was moved to Kirky Lane, would the USA team be favourites for it? The Russians would be bouncing off the fence for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Nope not allowed after heat 16, if a rider uses joker he's not allowed to in as a tac sub in a different race vice versa but you can do a tac sub and joker at the same time Even though Holder did the Joker it was in his original scheduled heat. He would still be allowed to do a T'S in the nominated heats I just don't get how inept Team Managers are in the 'Nominated Heats' if you're behind strongest 2 in the last 2 heats If you're winning strongest 2 in the first 2 heats Australia should have picked in strength order Masters (17) Fricke (18) Holder (19) Doyle (20) Immediately Doyle replaces Masters in 17 and then go from there as Aus were 8 down before the nominations. I couldn't believe how 'nice' the Aussies were with the Swedes too last night. Not once did they try a bit of hard riding, when the Swedes were behind all does were left open and they just breezed past. A Crump would have run them hard up to the fence trying to force an EX That to its what's missing from Denmark's game without Pedersen and Kildemand. Is all about making sacrifices to be World Cup champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Again, thoroughly the 2nd Semi, with Sweden proving what a powerful unit they are. Always finishing in the top 2 of each heat was indeed an achievement. No doubt they will provide strong contention for the final, only a fool would disregard them of winning. Amazing the quality of racing last night, especially after the amount of rain in the afternoon. It was commendable the way the track behaved. Probably some of our top club tracks could take a leaf out of the their book, considering the Vastervik is only a 2nd division side in Sweden.. Talk about showing us how its done..... Personally, I like the Joker, It adds a bit of humour to the proceedings. Heat 14 was so predictably after the Swedish manager said he didn't want any jokers played. With Lemon on the ball he was always going to be aware of the gap and informing Doyle in what to do. I was amazed Dolye waited till the last lap. He could have done a much more convincing job, hadn't he made a good start. As for disqualifying the riders, that's crazy. How could a referee determined if someone is giving 100% or not... While they're Jokers this scenario will always happen. When Lemon use Holder with the Joker, I automatically thought he would use Doyle as a TS in the nominated heats. But he messed that up good and proper. Fiske and Masters are quality riders, but are someway off the standard needed in these SWC. Compared to years before this is a weak Aussie team. My feelings are that whoever gets to the final we will be similar to the Aussies and offer but a token resistance...... Prediction: On the FAST open spaces of Belle Vue, I go for Sweden just, followed by Poland, and Denmark ahead of G B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Again, thoroughly the 2nd Semi, with Sweden proving what a powerful unit they are. Always finishing in the top 2 of each heat was indeed an achievement. No doubt they will provide strong contention for the final, only a fool would disregard them of winning. Amazing the quality of racing last night, especially after the amount of rain in the afternoon. It was commendable the way the track behaved. Probably some of our top club tracks could take a leaf out of the their book, considering the Vastervik is only a 2nd division side in Sweden.. Talk about showing us how its done..... Personally, I like the Joker, It adds a bit of humour to the proceedings. Heat 14 was so predictably after the Swedish manager said he didn't want any jokers played. With Lemon on the ball he was always going to be aware of the gap and informing Doyle in what to do. I was amazed Dolye waited till the last lap. He could have done a much more convincing job, hadn't he made a good start. As for disqualifying the riders, that's crazy. How could a referee determined if someone is giving 100% or not... While they're Jokers this scenario will always happen. When Lemon use Holder with the Joker, I automatically thought he would use Doyle as a TS in the nominated heats. But he messed that up good and proper. Fiske and Masters are quality riders, but are someway off the standard needed in these SWC. Compared to years before this is a weak Aussie team. My feelings are that whoever gets to the final we will be similar to the Aussies and offer but a token resistance...... Prediction: On the FAST open spaces of Belle Vue, I go for Sweden just, followed by Poland, and Denmark ahead of G B. I don't think Denmark are getting out of the Race-Off. I'm going for the Russians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 If it was definate that a rider who stops racing will be excluded then Johnsson could have carried on knowing Doyle was to be excluded. If there is any doubt about an exclusion then Johnsson would have to do what he did. Another sport where a joker is played, and known as a joker..... the joker lap in rally cross, the race may be 6 laps long but at any point in the race a driver has to do a longer lap - the joker lap. Actually it works well in rally cross, as you have to on it 110% of the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Even though Holder did the Joker it was in his original scheduled heat. He would still be allowed to do a T'S in the nominated heats I just don't get how inept Team Managers are in the 'Nominated Heats' if you're behind strongest 2 in the last 2 heats If you're winning strongest 2 in the first 2 heats Australia should have picked in strength order Masters (17) Fricke (18) Holder (19) Doyle (20) Immediately Doyle replaces Masters in 17 and then go from there as Aus were 8 down before the nominations. I couldn't believe how 'nice' the Aussies were with the Swedes too last night. Not once did they try a bit of hard riding, when the Swedes were behind all does were left open and they just breezed past. A Crump would have run them hard up to the fence trying to force an EX That to its what's missing from Denmark's game without Pedersen and Kildemand. Is all about making sacrifices to be World Cup champions. Utter tripe- a rider can only have one joker/sub ride NOT 2 !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no-brakes-uk Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 I can't praise Greg highly enough. I've got some ladders you can borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woofers Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Personally, I like the Joker, It adds a bit of humour to the proceedings. As for disqualifying the riders, that's crazy. How could a referee determined if someone is giving 100% or not... While they're Jokers this scenario will always happen. Yep, just what Speedway is crying out for....a bit of humour. The only type of humour on display last night was .... farce. I think we all, including the referee, could determine that Doyle wasn't giving 100% at that time, tantamount to cheating I'd say. We need a referee like the lady at Event 1, who was prepared to make a brave, and correct decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) Good meeting worthy winners great racing have to mention Hancock who was more than a gater tonight and just can't believe he rides at this level consistently at the age he is amazing really . I actually think this could be one of Gregs most exciting seasons. Hes had a few good races this year and his gating is not as sharp as it has been in the past. He's almost enjoyable to watch when he misses a start Even though Holder did the Joker it was in his original scheduled heat. He would still be allowed to do a T'S in the nominated heats I just don't get how inept Team Managers are in the 'Nominated Heats' if you're behind strongest 2 in the last 2 heats If you're winning strongest 2 in the first 2 heats Australia should have picked in strength order Masters (17) Fricke (18) Holder (19) Doyle (20) Immediately Doyle replaces Masters in 17 and then go from there as Aus were 8 down before the nominations. I couldn't believe how 'nice' the Aussies were with the Swedes too last night. Not once did they try a bit of hard riding, when the Swedes were behind all does were left open and they just breezed past. A Crump would have run them hard up to the fence trying to force an EX That to its what's missing from Denmark's game without Pedersen and Kildemand. Is all about making sacrifices to be World Cup champions. Wrong, you can take a tac ride, a joker ride or a tac joker. Once you have taken one of them you can't take another. Even so, Masters should have been in heat 17 and replaced by Doyle. But Holder could not have another ride. Actually Doyle should have been in for Holder in 16 as the joker anyway. Edited July 27, 2016 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 Yep, just what Speedway is crying out for....a bit of humour. The only type of humour on display last night was .... farce. I think we all, including the referee, could determine that Doyle wasn't giving 100% at that time, tantamount to cheating I'd say. We need a referee like the lady at Event 1, who was prepared to make a brave, and correct decision. I didn't see it as being farcical, I thought it was excepted as normal practise in these competitions. We could all do with a bit of humour. The fun has gone out of all sports.... Doyle made it easy to see what his intention were last night, whereas he need not have been so obvious. But could the same Ref had decided that AJ wasn't trying.?? He did not attempt one pass the whole race, Not so easy is it, but both were guilty of the same charge....stupid as it may be...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 It would be an utter joke (no pun intended) if a rider was ever excluded for “not trying” so the joker could be used, it would defeat the entire concept of the rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReturn Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 It would be an utter joke (no pun intended) if a rider was ever excluded for “not trying” so the joker could be used, it would defeat the entire concept of the rule Then the rule is an ass. The joker rule is a joke and favours teams with a 'superstar'. Case in point, lets be honest, without it chances are Team USA would be on their way home right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 I believe that Prince Edward dressed in medieval costume will be at the final playing the GB joker. Stuart Hall on mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 27, 2016 Report Share Posted July 27, 2016 (edited) Then the rule is an ass. The joker rule is a joke and favours teams with a 'superstar'. Case in point, lets be honest, without it chances are Team USA would be on their way home right now. Germany minus their number 1 scored 7. USA minus their number 1 scored 5. Why people seem to think Germany were hard done by because of the Greg Hancock being a 1 man team I'm not sure, Germany were too! Edited July 27, 2016 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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