Swedish Grand Prix Malilla Sunday August 14th 2016

[Guest GiveusaB]

Is Hancock top of all the leagues averages?

Why? does being top of the league's averages make you world champion at the end of the season?

It's all about opinions.....but the SGP's surely proves who's the best all round rider, when all the GP's are completed ?

I dont think there's a case ? IMO

Unless someone gets injured (like Sayfutinov did) when Tai won his first title?

[crumpiefan]

Kicks on? He won the title in 97, was 3^rd in 04 and 2^nd in 06

 

Out with a brief spell when it looked like he was finished he has pretty much been the benchmark for World Class, if you are finishing ahead of him you are generally either on the podium or winning the thing, that applies now and applied for much of the time Rickardsson, Crump and Pedersen were winning it or close to winning it, based on that alone I would say it is harsh to say the field has declined.

The strength of the whole field is debatable - everyone will have their own opinion. When I 'got back' into speedway after years away from watching it (around 04/05) Hancock was a regular 5th/6th place overall man. If i remember rightly Leigh Adams was the man who was always one away from a medal back then. It does sound harsh I admit - the guy is amazing for 26 let alone 46. Perhaps its the case that the field as a whole has improved but the very top has declined I don't know, but he's more successful now than when the aforementioned three were at their peak. Three medals in over a decade compared to now where alongside Woffinden he is THE man to beat Edited August 15, 2016 by crumpiefan

[RPNY]

You are either trying to annoy people or are just plain stupid. Possibly both.

[FAST GATER]

Stupid people get annoyed by the truth and fact they can't change it.

I would have thought that being w/champ in any sport meant that you were the best at that time in the world which covers most if not all areas as it were otherwise what is the point of the GP'S?

[sparkafag]

The strength of the whole field is debatable - everyone will have their own opinion. When I 'got back' into speedway after years away from watching it (around 04/05) Hancock was a regular 5th/6th place overall man. If i remember rightly Leigh Adams was the man who was always one away from a medal back then. It does sound harsh I admit - the guy is amazing for 26 let alone 46. Perhaps its the case that the field as a whole has improved but the very top has declined I don't know, but he's more successful now than when the aforementioned three were at their peak. Three medals in over a decade compared to now where alongside Woffinden he is THE man to beat

 

During the time you got back into the sport Adams was away from medals on two occasions because Hancock was the man winning medals (04 & 06) his record even during that period stands up to and surpasses Adams.

 

4,3,1,6,9,5,13,6,5,3,5,2,6,4,4,5,1,3,4,1,2

 

That’s his record, other than 13^th (an anomaly) it’s completely mental how good that is – even during the era when Rickardsson and Crump were dominant Hancock was still one of the best 4/5 riders in the world.

 

If he and his form/where he is in the world is any kind of evidence that the series is weaker now it is only because of the retirement of Rickardsson and Crump IMO – if you placed them in at their peak now they would probably still win it, but they would still be having to finish above Hancock and Woffinden (on current form to do so) – for Woffinden see (Pedersen/Gollob/Adams who competed for that top 5 finish spot during that time).

 

It hasn’t mattered at any stage during the past 20 years what the strength of the field is Hancock has always been one of THE men to beat, the only two guys who can say they have really consistently had the better of him during the entirety of his career are Rickardson and Crump who would come seriously into the conversation re greatest rider ever, that those two guys would still win it only suggests the field is weaker as a result of their retirement, but still suggests Hancock is winning it because he is a hell of a rider rather than any kind of default/weakening of the field.

[Gr8scot]

I have a question too plz...... I was under the impression that every race in a GP had to be decided over 4 laps and could not be awarded.

 

I was happy for poor Bomber that the race was awarded BUT ........ What is the rule?

[crumpiefan]

During the time you got back into the sport Adams was away from medals on two occasions because Hancock was the man winning medals (04 & 06) his record even during that period stands up to and surpasses Adams.

 

4,3,1,6,9,5,13,6,5,3,5,2,6,4,4,5,1,3,4,1,2

 

Thats his record, other than 13^th (an anomaly) its completely mental how good that is even during the era when Rickardsson and Crump were dominant Hancock was still one of the best 4/5 riders in the world.

 

If he and his form/where he is in the world is any kind of evidence that the series is weaker now it is only because of the retirement of Rickardsson and Crump IMO if you placed them in at their peak now they would probably still win it, but they would still be having to finish above Hancock and Woffinden (on current form to do so) for Woffinden see (Pedersen/Gollob/Adams who competed for that top 5 finish spot during that time).

 

It hasnt mattered at any stage during the past 20 years what the strength of the field is Hancock has always been one of THE men to beat, the only two guys who can say they have really consistently had the better of him during the entirety of his career are Rickardson and Crump who would come seriously into the conversation re greatest rider ever, that those two guys would still win it only suggests the field is weaker as a result of their retirement, but still suggests Hancock is winning it because he is a hell of a rider rather than any kind of default/weakening of the field.

His record is insane I agree, I don't think anyone would disagree. By no means is anything by default his longevity is ridiculous. But as you say yourself during those years Hancock was always one of the best 4,5,6 riders around, not even a regular top 3 man. He's had 6 or 7 seasons finishing 5th or 6th in those seasons. The fact that now he is consistently right at the top suggests the quality at the top isn't what it used to be. Edited August 15, 2016 by crumpiefan

[sparkafag]

His record is insane I agree, I don't think anyone would disagree. By no means is anything by default his longevity is ridiculous. But as you say yourself during those years Hancock was always one of the best 4,5,6 riders around, not even a regular top 3 man. The fact that now he is consistently right at the top suggests the quality at the top isn't what it used to be.

 

 

Two of the greatest ever riders to race before don’t race now, sure - you remove them during that time his record becomes 4,3,2,1,4,3,2,2,3 etc during that period.

[Gavan]

Is Hancock top of all the leagues averages?

Totally irrelevent

 

Whats relevent is that from March - September in individual grand prixs that have the best riders in the world he currently is the most consistent and therefore if he is still in that place at the end of the series he is a worthy world champion and the best rider in the world.

 

League averages can be false and doesnt factor in any real pressure like there is in a gp.

 

Leigh Adams was always top of most averages in most countrys yet never won the world title.

[crumpiefan]

Two of the greatest ever riders to race before don’t race now, sure - you remove them during that time his record becomes 4,3,2,1,4,3,2,2,3 etc during that period.

Very true but even in the years after Rickardsson retired he was 'only' 4th twice,5th and 6th. Not all down to those 2 good as they were

[sparkafag]

Very true but even in the years after Rickardsson retired he was 'only' 4th twice,5th and 6th. Not all down to those 2 good as they were

 

 

Well the notion he would have won the title every year had they not been racing is slightly ridiculous, instead he would only have been a podium rider nearly every year for about 20 years with a few more World Titles on top of the 3 (could be 4) and a few more 2nd places thrown in.

[crumpiefan]

Well the notion he would have won the title every year had they not been racing is slightly ridiculous, instead he would only have been a podium rider nearly every year for about 20 years with a few more World Titles on top of the 3 (could be 4) and a few more 2nd places thrown in.

Of course he has a superb record, i'm just of the opinion that his success at his age points to the quality being lower at the very top than it was. No slight on him, Crump retired at 37, not sure how old Rickardsson was, the second Gollob won the title he wasn't the same, Pedersen at 39 is a fading force. Hancock at 46 is top of the world. Utterly amazing achievement. Doesn't alter my view on the competition however

[Gavan]

Muahahahahahaahaha

do yourself a favour little boy and stop posting

 

your trolling posts border on insanity and what you post is taken with a pinch of salt.

 

You dont think the World Champion is the best rider in the world??? Stop talking out of your arse.

 

I agree Harris isnt the 15th best rider in the world. But the top 8 are the best 8 with only minor exception of Emil or Dudek

 

So yes if Hancock wins the title he is the best rider in the world.

 

So do us a favour and shut up

[RPNY]

Stupid people get annoyed by the truth and fact they can't change it.

So we agree you're stupid then

[iris123]

 

I just find the case of Greg Hancock fascinating because here is someone who won the title in 1997, but couldn't win another until 2011 when the main opponents had either finished altogether or had themselves begun to suffer from old age creeping up? The fact that Greg Hancock is currently the best rider in the world at his age though of course shows he has to be counted amongst the all-time greats, but I just wonder........

I do feel that Hancock has risen to the top because the better riders have either retired or are n their way out and the generation(s) after him just aren't in the league of the previous riders.Rickardsson,Crump and even Adams dropping out of the sport and then the demise of Gollob and Pedersen on top of the failure of the next lot to take over.The likes of Jonsson,Hampel,Andersen,Iversen left it to the younger riders and Holder failed to maintain top form,Emil turned his back on the GPs which left Tai almost alone as a real world championship candidate.

 

You have to give it to Hancock that he has maintained his enthusiasm,fitness etc over a very long period,but i think it is the failure of others rather than a sudden increase in form after more than 10 years without a title,that has taken him to the top again.Whether this is the long term effect of having a GP series where it is easier to maintain a place and therefore continue to keep or attract new sponsors.This is what f-s-p alluded to in his theory as to why it has been hard for young Danes to reach the top because Nicki,Hans,Niels and Bjerre had the GP spots and the big sponsors for themselves

[Sidney the robin]

A real hard one to call to be honest, Ricko,Crump,are amongst the best ever Hancock being around with them and still being at the top now is some achievement.If you are being honest it probably is not as strong at the top now but it could well be in the future with the talent now emerging.The biggest thing for me over the years is that Hancock has been relatively lucky with injury and having that brilliant gating technique really gives him a shout everyyear.

[crumpiefan]

I do feel that Hancock has risen to the top because the better riders have either retired or are n their way out and the generation(s) after him just aren't in the league of the previous riders.Rickardsson,Crump and even Adams dropping out of the sport and then the demise of Gollob and Pedersen on top of the failure of the next lot to take over.The likes of Jonsson,Hampel,Andersen,Iversen left it to the younger riders and Holder failed to maintain top form,Emil turned his back on the GPs which left Tai almost alone as a real world championship candidate.

 

You have to give it to Hancock that he has maintained his enthusiasm,fitness etc over a very long period,but i think it is the failure of others rather than a sudden increase in form after more than 10 years without a title,that has taken him to the top again.Whether this is the long term effect of having a GP series where it is easier to maintain a place and therefore continue to keep or attract new sponsors.This is what f-s-p alluded to in his theory as to why it has been hard for young Danes to reach the top because Nicki,Hans,Niels and Bjerre had the GP spots and the big sponsors for themselves

Very much agree. Not forgetting Wards' indiscretions then awful injury

[RPNY]

I think this argument crops up among a lot of sports, I think in general people like to look through rose tinted glasses, think that it was always better in days gone by. I for one think the standard is as good now as it's ever been. I feel like although Greg has a healthy lead at the moment, theres still 4 riders who can realistically be WC this year.
In the mid to late 80s it was only ever going to be Hans or Eric and that was in the one off format. The 90s had a handful of contenders fighting it out year on year, - but admittedly it did produce many different world champions. In the Early 2000's it was essentially only TRik/Crump/Gollob who were fighting it out. So I dont really go with it was much harder back then. What I'm trying to say there's always been the top few who were just a little bit better than the rest.

Greg is 46 yes but he's so far of the game mentally and mechanically that it counter balances his age. I wouldnt say an 'old' rider leading the SGP s an illustration of a drop in standard.

Edited August 15, 2016 by RPNYC

[crumpiefan]

A real hard one to call to be honest, Ricko,Crump,are amongst the best ever Hancock being around with them and still being at the top now is some achievement.If you are being honest it probably is not as strong at the top now but it could well be in the future with the talent now emerging.The biggest thing for me over the years is that Hancock has been relatively lucky with injury and having that brilliant gating technique really gives him a shout everyyear.

As a layman regarding speedway one thing i have never understood is how riders can bemoan conditions,set ups, engines etc yet never seek to improve their gating techniques. Pedersen pretty much gated to his titles and Hancock is a fantastic gater. It seems like thats the elephant in the room and its too easy to blame the bike or the track rather than think you know what if i made the gate i may get a few more points.....

[Sidney the robin]

As a layman regarding speedway one thing i have never understood is how riders can bemoan conditions,set ups, engines etc yet never seek to improve their gating techniques. Pedersen pretty much gated to his titles and Hancock is a fantastic gater. It seems like thats the elephant in the room and its too easy to blame the bike or the track rather than think you know what if i made the gate i may get a few more points.....

How would you class Jason's gating? it wasn't bad was it but my memories of him was being a terrific racer good from the back.Both him and Gollob both overcome heartache to reach there dream Crumps record in the Series is outstanding.I was lucky to have seen him race quite alot over his career a proper racer.