Swedish Grand Prix Malilla Sunday August 14th 2016

[crumpiefan]

He probably is and its splitting hairs in many ways, but i've thought for a while his success (whilst a great story) doesn't say much for the current crop

Edited August 14, 2016 by crumpiefan

[norbold]

Of course, no-one can deny that Hancock is a great rider. But the fact he was good enough to win back in 1997, but it then took him until 2011 (when Andreas Jonsson was second incidentally) just does make me wonder about the relative strength of opposition during this whole period.

[FAST GATER]

Of course, no-one can deny that Hancock is a great rider. But the fact he was good enough to win back in 1997, but it then took him until 2011 (when Andreas Jonsson was second incidentally) just does make me wonder about the relative strength of opposition during this whole period.

What dose that say about Tai then ????

Does it all mean though that riders are just not as good today as they were a few years ago? How is it that Hancock is the dominant rider at his age, when in the days he should have been winning agewise, he was definitely behind the likes of Rickardsson, Crump, Pedersen and Gollob. Are today's crop just not that good?

IMO Hancock is a different rider to those mentioned all brilliant riders in there own way but a lot comes down to the way they ride the bike and the demands they put on themselves .He has a very compact style and his size helps as well he has stayed relatively injury free which makes a huge difference plus probable two s/way career's of experience and a marvelous temperament which IMO was Crumpy's weakness if he had one .

Edited August 15, 2016 by FAST GATER

[Guest GiveusaB]

One way of avoiding all these re-starts, is to go back to the good old days and allow riders to roll/touch the tapes (but not break them). The starts were more exciting and the bluffing between riders made it interesting.....I dont know what sitting still for 5 mins has added to sport?

[f-s-p]

One way of avoiding all these re-starts, is to go back to the good old days and allow riders to roll/touch the tapes (but not break them). The starts were more exciting and the bluffing between riders made it interesting...

I watched a meeting from 1983 last sat. Though it was "just" a Finnish individual meeting, it had Kai Niemi, Olli Tyrväinen, Ari Koponen, Juha Moksunen and a few others. They messed about with the tapes and always someone got a HUGE flyer and off he went to win the heat. BOOOOORING!

[FAST GATER]

One way of avoiding all these re-starts, is to go back to the good old days and allow riders to roll/touch the tapes (but not break them). The starts were more exciting and the bluffing between riders made it interesting.....I dont know what sitting still for 5 mins has added to sport?

So I am not alone then in thinking that what we have now is no better than before !!!!

Why do they have warnings in SGP if there's no consequence to that? It's just like saying "you have been warned for stealing start and if you do it again well... we will just do nothing". Comedy.

 

As for the GP. Quite good as for the typically boring snooze fest BSI usually serves us with. Great job from Piotrek Pawlicki. All three young Polish riders in top 8 in general table.

 

Tai Woffinden hehe. Now after he signed to ride in British Mickey Mouse league will completely lose his advantage of being fairly untired and having plenty of time to prepare for SGP rounds. Love it.

Tai is 25yrs old not 46yrs old like his main rival so surely he can handle a few extra meetings !!!!!!!!!!

[norbold]

What dose that say about Tai then ????

 

I'm not really sure other than Tai has been the only rider over the last 3 years or so that has been Greg's match. And, of course, Hancock has not had to face possibly two of the best riders around over that time - Emil Sayfutdinov and Jarek Hampel - for various reasons.

 

I don't know what the answer is but the whole subject has been one that has interested me for along time, that is comparing riders from a different era and historically you can only go on what they won and their records etc. But that always depends on the opposition. For example, Peter Craven was a great rider by any standard but only won two World Championships. If Greg wins four does that make him better? No, because we look at the opposition Peter had - Fundin, Briggs, Moore. Did Mauger win six titles because he really only had one other rider - Ole Olsen - who could match him over a period, or would he have won six against any opposition?

 

I just find the case of Greg Hancock fascinating because here is someone who won the title in 1997, but couldn't win another until 2011 when the main opponents had either finished altogether or had themselves begun to suffer from old age creeping up? The fact that Greg Hancock is currently the best rider in the world at his age though of course shows he has to be counted amongst the all-time greats, but I just wonder........

[crumpiefan]

What dose that say about Tai then ????

 

IMO Hancock is a different rider to those mentioned all brilliant riders in there own way but a lot comes down to the way they ride the bike and the demands they put on themselves .He has a very compact style and his size helps as well he has stayed relatively injury free which makes a huge difference plus probable two s/way career's of experience and a marvelous temperament which IMO was Crumpy's weakness if he had one .

I always felt Crumpy's weakness was when he missed the gate he tried to win the race in one lap, which could be classed as temperament i agree. Plus he never could relax in a GP, although on the very rare occasions he had nothing to race for Jason usually rode poorly, its as if he needed to be on edge to ride at his best. Hancock never looks stressed in contrast. No one is taking anything away from Hancock - i mean come on a 46 year old beating up 20-25 year olds? But it is a legitimate question to then ask what that means about the current riders, good as this series has been so far, because he certainly wasn't on top when Rickardsson, Crump, Pedersen etc were at their best. When 2 retire and the other declines big time (granted something Greg hasn't) then he kicks on. Edited August 15, 2016 by crumpiefan

[SCB]

I think the thing with Greg is he's a thinking man, he's a very clever guy who really is always learning. He took a turn for the good mid-00's when he started working with some former motorcross guy and I think he just started seeing things a different way. I've commented in the past how it was weird that between 98 and the mid00's he was a bit anonymous, won the odd GP but was certainly never at any point a threat.

 

I think the biggets compliment I can pay Greg is if I was going to be a speedway rider and copy another riders style it would be Gregs, it just seems so much easier than most others, it keeps him out of trouble and allows him to do what he's doing now at his age. As for the age thing, it's a double edged sword. I think speedway should be loud, fast, smelly and dangerous - all things the young love and old dislike but equally it's pretty cool in some ways that an old guy can teach the kids how to do it.

 

On the how does he compare to riders from the 50s, 70s and 90s etc well the sport has changed so much its in many ways irrelevant. Could a top guy in the 60s ride a laydown and sit still at the tapes in 2010s? Could Greg ride a laydown and roll at the starts? I certainly don't think 60s riders could cope with being moves around on track like they do in the GPs these days. Having seen the Barry Briggs World Final finger loss accident that was described as dangerous and a move that could have killed him you see worse in the NL these days!

[sparkafag]

But it is a legitimate question to then ask what that means about the current riders, good as this series has been so far, because he certainly wasn't on top when Rickardsson, Crump, Pedersen etc were at their best. When 2 retire and the other declines big time (granted something Greg hasn't) then he kicks on.

 

 

Kicks on? He won the title in 97, was 3^rd in 04 and 2^nd in 06

 

Out with a brief spell when it looked like he was finished he has pretty much been the benchmark for World Class, if you are finishing ahead of him you are generally either on the podium or winning the thing, that applies now and applied for much of the time Rickardsson, Crump and Pedersen were winning it or close to winning it, based on that alone I would say it is harsh to say the field has declined.

Edited August 15, 2016 by The Mockingjay

[norbold]

 

 

if you are finishing ahead of him you are generally either on the podium or winning the thing, that applies now and applied for much of the time Rickardsson, Crump and Pedersen were winning it or close to winning it, based on that alone I would say it is harsh to say the field has declined.

Except the difference is that Rickardsson, Crump and Pedersen did regularly finish ahead of him. Only Tai has done that recently.

[FAST GATER]

I'm not really sure other than Tai has been the only rider over the last 3 years or so that has been Greg's match. And, of course, Hancock has not had to face possibly two of the best riders around over that time - Emil Sayfutdinov and Jarek Hampel - for various reasons.

 

I don't know what the answer is but the whole subject has been one that has interested me for along time, that is comparing riders from a different era and historically you can only go on what they won and their records etc. But that always depends on the opposition. For example, Peter Craven was a great rider by any standard but only won two World Championships. If Greg wins four does that make him better? No, because we look at the opposition Peter had - Fundin, Briggs, Moore. Did Mauger win six titles because he really only had one other rider - Ole Olsen - who could match him over a period, or would he have won six against any opposition?

 

I just find the case of Greg Hancock fascinating because here is someone who won the title in 1997, but couldn't win another until 2011 when the main opponents had either finished altogether or had themselves begun to suffer from old age creeping up? The fact that Greg Hancock is currently the best rider in the world at his age though of course shows he has to be counted amongst the all-time greats, but I just wonder........

Think we are all on the same page here what IMO sets him out from the rest is his ability to adapt to the track ,machinery and also the track methods shall we say some of his opponents may use ,in the time I have watch s/way the nearest I have seen to him is Ivan Mauger .

[sparkafag]

Except the difference is that Rickardsson, Crump and Pedersen did regularly finish ahead of him. Only Tai has done that recently.

 

Whereas now the riders who finish ahead of him is varied rather than the same two or three which suggests strength throughout the field rather than purely top end strength? Because it isn’t just Woffinden who has finished ahead of him recently.

[FAST GATER]

I think the thing with Greg is he's a thinking man, he's a very clever guy who really is always learning. He took a turn for the good mid-00's when he started working with some former motorcross guy and I think he just started seeing things a different way. I've commented in the past how it was weird that between 98 and the mid00's he was a bit anonymous, won the odd GP but was certainly never at any point a threat.

 

I think the biggets compliment I can pay Greg is if I was going to be a speedway rider and copy another riders style it would be Gregs, it just seems so much easier than most others, it keeps him out of trouble and allows him to do what he's doing now at his age. As for the age thing, it's a double edged sword. I think speedway should be loud, fast, smelly and dangerous - all things the young love and old dislike but equally it's pretty cool in some ways that an old guy can teach the kids how to do it.

 

On the how does he compare to riders from the 50s, 70s and 90s etc well the sport has changed so much its in many ways irrelevant. Could a top guy in the 60s ride a laydown and sit still at the tapes in 2010s? Could Greg ride a laydown and roll at the starts? I certainly don't think 60s riders could cope with being moves around on track like they do in the GPs these days. Having seen the Barry Briggs World Final finger loss accident that was described as dangerous and a move that could have killed him you see worse in the NL these days!

He is just so neat and tidy on the bike( just like Peter Karlsson another amazing rider for his age ) and makes it look easy that's why some many say he is "boring " which IMO is just not true.

[TheReturn]

Should Hancock have been allowed to contest the final heat? Was he not warned for rolling earlier in the meeting? Which he then did in the final so should he not have been excluded?

Edited August 15, 2016 by TheReturn

[Guest GiveusaB]

The Referee was a complete TopHat when it came to holding the tapes ? How many times did Pearson/Tatum point it out? and then he missed Lingdren's 2 wheels on the white line before he wiped out Janowski and then in the re-run he missed Lingdrens dangerous riding against Jonson,(I think it was?)

Albeit I like Lingdrens whole hearted approach.....him and Holder are conjuring up some great duels !

 

Hats off to Hancock......he can only beat what's put in front of him.....He truly is the best rider in the world today!

[TheReturn]

He truly is the best rider in the world today!

When he can be bothered to turn up... shame he did not bother in Manchester.

[Trees]

Is Hancock top of all the leagues averages?

[Star Lady]

Is Hancock top of all the leagues averages?

 

 

I can say with some certainty that he is not top of the UK averages

[FAST GATER]

Is Hancock top of all the leagues averages?

I would have thought leading a series which is supposed to made up of the best riders in the world would trump that IMO