Club Team Bikes...

[Gresham]

.... this for me, is the biggest change needed with Club Speedway.

 

Looking at the way Speedway has developed since it's early days, I think the one thing that should have been introduced many years ago, was the Introduction of Club/team bikes.

 

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another team in motorsport, where it's up to the individual in each team, to supply and service/maintain their own motors/chassis etc.

 

Speedway riders throughout history, spend £££££'s on their engines, tuning them to within inch's of their life. Everyday...every rider is concerned about how much extra speed they can get out of their engines. It's a merry go round, that is fruitless and the only people that really benefit are the engine tuners and manufacturers.

 

Having seen one of the Danish riders interviewed recently, where he quoted he spent over £200,000.00 to race Speedway last season.

 

Let that sink in...200 Grand before he's made profit....absolute madness.

 

As a fan...are we concerned about who's got the fastest bike...who's got the best tuner?

 

Are you not frustrated when you see a talented rider failing to score to his potential, because his bike isn't as fast this week?

 

They spend countless hours travelling, covering many miles and still have to concentrate on getting their engines highly tuned...just to compete.

 

Surely as Speedway fans, all we are interested in, is seeing the talent of a rider on a Speedway bike...rather than who's got the best engine tuner and who owns the fastest bike?

 

I'd love to see Club Speedway make a massive change to how it's run and introduce Club bikes.

 

You may ask who's going to fund this?

 

Well each rider knows how much he spends each season on engines and tuning from their accounts.

 

That could be taken into account when structuring such a new venture.

 

A percentage could be taken off each contracted rider, to go towards the club bikes, instead of into the riders pocket, who would only spend that money on servicing and tuning his own bikes.

 

If Clubs could find a way of having sealed engines, with minimum tuning needed...off the shelf in other words, then I feel Speedway could save massive amounts of money.

 

Granted...Riders would have to have their own rolling chassis, and able to make adjustments to clutch etc...but costs could be massively improved on.

 

I'd only suggest this was done in League meetings.

 

In Individual meetings, I'd say let the riders do whatever they want re their bikes.

 

But simplified...find a way of Clubs providing sealed engines. Each engine being checked before a meeting, then lots chosen as to who gets what engines.

 

Get the engines put in each riders rolling chassis before the meeting...then race...on equal terms.

 

Yes...big adjustments would have to be made...plus a different thought process by the riders on how to approach a meeting.

 

Yes, it's a drastic idea...but it's something I've felt strongly about for many many years.

 

Of course there would be stumbling blocks to start, like anything that is new...but why not.

 

Personally...I'd love to see this introduced. I'd love to see Speedway promotors able to save money and invest in the sport.

 

Tracks have had to invest in Air fences...We also need to start investing in track covers.

 

I don't see enough money coming into the sport to survive as it is...let alone invest for the future.

 

It imo, would also bring a better Club feel to our sport.

 

Can anyone else see this being possible?

 

Find ways of doing it, rather than reasons not to?

[topsoil]

I had similar thoughts about clubs owning all types of equipment, not just bikes, but engines, spares, kevlars, helmets and so on, rather than riders. Riders could then be paid basic salaries, having no costs to cover, other than travelling. Would that be cheaper for clubs? I don't know, I'm not privy to any information like this. But in a business sense, clubs would then have real "assets" i.e equipment. But I think the key to any kind of saving would be standardising engines, whatever form that comes in.

Also a saving would come from the number of mechanics needed. I look at the Grand Prix and each riders has a handful of mechanics in with him. How many would it take to look after a team's bikes?

Track covers, again whatever form they come in, are an absolute necessity for me, for the sport going forward. They wouldn't save all the meetings, but certainly a few and probably pay for themselves through time. More fans might travel if they are confident more meetings might be saved. And there's advertising space to be taken advantage of there!

Ideals probably and it would be good to hear the thoughts of those who have real inside knowledge on costs etc.

[ColinMills]

nice thread, nice post

[Daniel Smith]

Costs would be a huge problem here as every bike and engine would need to be identical.

 

Rather than 2 of the rider's taking the cost of PJR tuned engines all 14 race day club machines would have to take the hit. Then the day to day running repairs as riders become a little more careless with them.

 

Certainly though, I love it to happen. It is the way forward to become more professional looking but right now I don't think it's workable.

[eric i]

.... this for me, is the biggest change needed with Club Speedway.

 

Looking at the way Speedway has developed since it's early days, I think the one thing that should have been introduced many years ago, was the Introduction of Club/team bikes.

 

Off the top of my head, I can't think of another team in motorsport, where it's up to the individual in each team, to supply and service/maintain their own motors/chassis etc.

 

Speedway riders throughout history, spend £££££'s on their engines, tuning them to within inch's of their life. Everyday...every rider is concerned about how much extra speed they can get out of their engines. It's a merry go round, that is fruitless and the only people that really benefit are the engine tuners and manufacturers.

 

Having seen one of the Danish riders interviewed recently, where he quoted he spent over £200,000.00 to race Speedway last season.

 

Let that sink in...200 Grand before he's made profit....absolute madness.

 

As a fan...are we concerned about who's got the fastest bike...who's got the best tuner?

 

Are you not frustrated when you see a talented rider failing to score to his potential, because his bike isn't as fast this week?

 

They spend countless hours travelling, covering many miles and still have to concentrate on getting their engines highly tuned...just to compete.

 

Surely as Speedway fans, all we are interested in, is seeing the talent of a rider on a Speedway bike...rather than who's got the best engine tuner and who owns the fastest bike?

 

I'd love to see Club Speedway make a massive change to how it's run and introduce Club bikes.

 

You may ask who's going to fund this?

 

Well each rider knows how much he spends each season on engines and tuning from their accounts.

 

That could be taken into account when structuring such a new venture.

 

A percentage could be taken off each contracted rider, to go towards the club bikes, instead of into the riders pocket, who would only spend that money on servicing and tuning his own bikes.

 

If Clubs could find a way of having sealed engines, with minimum tuning needed...off the shelf in other words, then I feel Speedway could save massive amounts of money.

 

Granted...Riders would have to have their own rolling chassis, and able to make adjustments to clutch etc...but costs could be massively improved on.

 

I'd only suggest this was done in League meetings.

 

In Individual meetings, I'd say let the riders do whatever they want re their bikes.

 

But simplified...find a way of Clubs providing sealed engines. Each engine being checked before a meeting, then lots chosen as to who gets what engines.

 

Get the engines put in each riders rolling chassis before the meeting...then race...on equal terms.

 

Yes...big adjustments would have to be made...plus a different thought process by the riders on how to approach a meeting.

 

Yes, it's a drastic idea...but it's something I've felt strongly about for many many years.

 

Of course there would be stumbling blocks to start, like anything that is new...but why not.

 

Personally...I'd love to see this introduced. I'd love to see Speedway promotors able to save money and invest in the sport.

 

Tracks have had to invest in Air fences...We also need to start investing in track covers.

 

I don't see enough money coming into the sport to survive as it is...let alone invest for the future.

 

It imo, would also bring a better Club feel to our sport.

 

Can anyone else see this being possible?

 

Find ways of doing it, rather than reasons not to?

I agree with a lot of what you say, you might find this thread interesting http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=81137.

I think there would be some resistance from those riders who have already invested heavily in machinery and of course the engine tuners but I hope the BSPA do something.

[ColinMills]

hope these kind of threads continue in this manner. good points made here..

[Gresham]

Costs would be a huge problem here as every bike and engine would need to be identical.

 

Rather than 2 of the rider's taking the cost of PJR tuned engines all 14 race day club machines would have to take the hit. Then the day to day running repairs as riders become a little more careless with them.

 

Certainly though, I love it to happen. It is the way forward to become more professional looking but right now I don't think it's workable.

The Engines would be off the shelf and 'sealed' basic engines with no high spec tuning. Built to last from a manufacturer like JAWA.

 

Rolling chassis would be owned by the riders...they provide their own.

 

Costs would be kept down, as riders wouldn't be paid the money that they spend on engine tuning or engines.

 

The rider wouldn't have the costs...the money saved being paid to the rider, would still go towards Engines. It's just the club paying it direct, rather than the rider.

 

When you think about it...it's the Clubs paying for the engines and tuning anyway...as they pay the riders, who then pay the tuners, engine manufacturers.

 

It's a crazy situation as it is...you have certain riders racing for teams, who get paid to race for that team.

 

However....that money being paid, often goes towards the maintenance and tuning of engines being used in GP's and Individual events.

 

Why should clubs be paying wages to riders, who then use a great majority of that money to invest in machinery for GP and Individual events?

 

Any money in theory, should be going into machinery being used to race on at Club meetings.

 

Costs would be the same, you are just cutting out the middle man ( the rider )

 

Pay the rider...the same wages, less the cost of maintaining the engines. It's simple in theory.

 

If a rider wants to be sponsored by companies for individual events, then so be it.

 

Why not have sponsors who wish to sponsor a rider or team, have the money go towards the team engines instead, and have the sponsors name on team kevlars, team bike and handle bar covers?

 

Costs would still be lower than now, as the engines would be sealed and 'Standard' and built to last...rather than highly tuned and on the brink of breaking.

That could easily be done.

 

It's just a mindset of how Speedway is run now, that has to be changed.

 

We've got used to it being like it is for many years...change is hard to see, but it could be done.

 

Riders wouldn't like it to start with...but if it was forced, then they would have to.

 

Most other motor sports run this way...it's only Speedway as far as I can see that doesn't.

 

In fact, in many motor sports...drivers/riders have to pay a team or manufacturer up front to race for them in many cases.

[speedibee]

I would guess , a lot of the money paid by english clubs . winds up paying to maintain bikes for poland denmark and sweden , then the money they earn in those countries looks good because its all straight in the pocket. and back down the airport to jump on a flight here paid for by the english clubs

Edited June 15, 2016 by speedibee

[Star Lady]

Although I agree in principle and agree long term it would probably be more cost effective for clubs, it would require one helluva initial outlay and I doubt many, if indeed any could afford it.

 

The extra costs of riders paying their own tuning costs etc that are passed onto clubs are prob spread across the whole season, even if not equally it allows a club to get revenue in before forking it all out in one go. The cost of a minimum of 8 (realistically9+) engines as a lump sum before any incoming revenue would be prohibitive.

[Gert Handbag]

What ever happened to the "pit bike" Plenty of world class riders won on those before the PJR rocket ships came along (or the Eddie Bull Weslakes )

Edited June 15, 2016 by Gert Handbag

[uk_martin]

How about the teams doing what happens in MotoGP - i.e. the teams employ their own tuners / mechanics? Take the cost of this out of the retainers that the riders get paid, then pay the riders per point scored only. Just a thought.

 

One slight concern about all bikes being the same...do you mean the same within the team, or the same throughout the country? If it's per team, you can see that the Peterborough bikes will be different to the Plymouth bikes, with the consequent impact on competitiveness when these teams meet. If it's the same throughout the country, then you have to ask at what level the commonality is set. Some tracks demand a high revving engine, which could be dangerous at another track. Conversely, some tracks need a detuned engine that digs in a bit more, that will be useless when the revs are needed.

 

Some riders prefer long stroke some short stroke, some large bore, others etc etc...you can see the complications.

[Gresham]

I'm sure there would be problems...like anything when things change.

 

However...if a company like for example JAWA were contacted, and a plan of action put in place, where they supply engines to all the clubs in the leagues, to the same bulk standard and sealed, and a payment plan put in operation....then maybe that could be a solution.

 

As for what riders prefer...this is where the mind set would have to change.

 

They would have to get their head around the idea, that they are given an engine, and it produces so much power.

 

They provide the rolling chassis etc...and the only way they can adjust to their liking, is clutch setting and how many teeth they want to run on, length of bike, bars etc.

 

It would be more about riders conforming and adjusting to the new 'philosophy' rather than trying to adjust bikes to exactly how they want it.

[f-s-p]

The guy spending 200k £... Could easily be one of the gp guys from Denmark. Thats about the quoted cost of a season on the highest of high level in speedway. That will include about 100k van km's, about 60 plane take offs and 30k in mechanic salaries... Thats already 86k spent.

[iris123]

The guy spending 200k £... Could easily be one of the gp guys from Denmark. Thats about the quoted cost of a season on the highest of high level in speedway. That will include about 100k van km's, about 60 plane take offs and 30k in mechanic salaries... Thats already 86k spent.

Yes,but unlike what the original poster said,that isn't before he makes a profit...........

[Christopher Bcmma Cook]

I have not read all the replies but how about

 

The governing body through sponsorship/TV revenue purchase around 100 or whatever engines from a manufacturer such as Jawa, these are delivered to the HQ sealed, a member of the governing body delivers 20 engines on the day of the meeting, stays to observe, and at the end of each meeting takes the engines back.

 

Contract between governing body and said manufacturer for maintenance etc.

 

This would provide a level playing field for all riders in terms of engine/power

 

At the end of the engines life cycle (where maintenance does not make sense) these could be handed down to National League riders or development riders free of charge (as already been paid for via sponsorship).

[2ndbendbeerhut]

If moto2 can use factory sealed engines that are bolted into frames at the start of a race weekend then a little old sport like speedway could easily do the same, no?

[Daniel Smith]

If moto2 can use factory sealed engines that are bolted into frames at the start of a race weekend then a little old sport like speedway could easily do the same, no?

 

You can but you also have to think about the viability for the manufacturer of the engines & the riders.

I don't think you could go down the route of just 1, they all have to be available.

 

Jawa

GM

Gerhard

 

Then there would be the cost of scrutineering this. That's not a 5 minute job

 

You'll also have the issue where a 'factory rider' is on the GM tuned by PJR everywhere else in the World but knows the 'Sealed factory GM' is outdone by the 'Sealed Jawa' just for the UK.

This he can't change to because he'll lose the GM contract so quits British racing.

 

Basically, all I'm saying is, for sealed engine racing to work it has to be across the board. It cannot happen in just 1 country.

[f-s-p]

Yes,but unlike what the original poster said,that isn't before he makes a profit...........

Another quoted sum for a decent Danish rider is 100k in sponsorship for a year. Thats not as reliable as the season cost naturally 'cos no one seen the books... With that he's halfway the season already...

[BangerBoy]

 

You can but you also have to think about the viability for the manufacturer of the engines & the riders.

I don't think you could go down the route of just 1, they all have to be available.

 

Jawa

GM

Gerhard

 

Then there would be the cost of scrutineering this. That's not a 5 minute job

 

You'll also have the issue where a 'factory rider' is on the GM tuned by PJR everywhere else in the World but knows the 'Sealed factory GM' is outdone by the 'Sealed Jawa' just for the UK.

This he can't change to because he'll lose the GM contract so quits British racing.

 

Basically, all I'm saying is, for sealed engine racing to work it has to be across the board. It cannot happen in just 1 country.

could be possible to only do in Britain. How many riders these days cart their bikes all over Europe.

[Daniel Smith]

could be possible to only do in Britain. How many riders these days cart their bikes all over Europe.

 

Never said anything about carting bikes all over Europe

Edited June 15, 2016 by Danny Smith