Terrace Grumbler Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 From a Newcastle perspective it's great to have two Diamonds in the Grand Final of the British Final. Leaving Robert Lambert aside (as he would be exceptional at any time) how well would, say, the Worralls or Lawson have gone 15 years ago? Would Paul Starke have got to a British Final? The lineup tonight looked to me like a decent end of season PL individual meeting from 10 years or so ago. Is this bad? Or doesn't it matter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 From a Newcastle perspective it's great to have two Diamonds in the Grand Final of the British Final. Leaving Robert Lambert aside (as he would be exceptional at any time) how well would, say, the Worralls or Lawson have gone 15 years ago? Would Paul Starke have got to a British Final? The lineup tonight looked to me like a decent end of season PL individual meeting from 10 years or so ago. Is this bad? Or doesn't it matter? Sadly at the end of the day that's the best we have got nowadays.Times have changed in terms of World Class British riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) thought this post was all about me then ! aye , watching the so called british final was a bit like watching a p.l.r.c. meeting with the likes of Harris and Nichols thrown in as wildcards . as much as the dangerous brothers (pearson and tatum) tried to big it up , it was still an over hyped meeting with so many double uppers in it . its time to move all those d/uppers into the lite league on a permanent bases and then next time we will see a British final worthy of the name , hopefully there will be more than 2 elite full timers . with only be a few p.l. riders in it and the public will feel that they are seeing ACTUAL elite riders in the meeting . danny king , the eventual winner. deserved it . harris and nichols didnt dererve to be in the meeting at all . time for scott to take a step back and give someone else a chance , his days as a top rider are coming to an end , .fast.. harris needs to bin the briggs and stratton engine and get back on the weslake (prob faster than that thing he rode last night ) must be getting paid a awful lot to ride that donkey . woldorf and statler making excuses for the not so full stadium . weather , Mancunian way inop. na just the line up was enough to put anyone off . good looking stadium and looks a good track . BUT 2 FULL TIME ELITE RACERS IN THE MEETING , COME ON .... time to make these d/u move into the lite league and bring some genuine young British talent into the pl. Edited June 14, 2016 by jenga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 So you force double uppers to ride Elite only, and then what? Half of them retire because the EL doesn't offer them enough fixtures and they can't get rides abroad. Result fewer British riders and more mediocre foreigners in our top league. To get more top class British riders you need more Brits at every level right down to 125cc. That requires effort and does not happen overnight - and it should be acknowledged that there have been some positive signs in that direction over the last couple of years. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 maybe the sport needs to go back to its roots and have it as a part time income . long long time ago riders fitted this sport in between their 9 to 5 jobs . i cant see it going back , but something could/should be done about the number of clubs in the elite league. pl is a better product but way too many double uppers etc . i dont know the solution. i have no doubt that this is the way the sport is heading and at this moment in time there is nothing we can do about it .. the line up last night from my point of view was disappointing . only 2 full time el riders and the paying public paying more than the going rate because the meeting was classed as a British final and the cream of the crop was on show , allegedly . do you know the price of the tickets for this meet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Well I thought it was a cracking meeting, with about 10 riders in with a shout late on in the meeting. Grumble grumble grumble. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 It was a good meeting no doubt but the standard of our riders on the whole has to be a concern, ten years back or so even there were the likes of Nicholls, Loram, Screen, Havelock, Norris, Richardson and Louis etc. who were EL heat leaders or thereabouts, and people were saying our standard of rider was on the decline then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 thought this post was all about me then ! aye , watching the so called british final was a bit like watching a p.l.r.c. meeting with the likes of Harris and Nichols thrown in as wildcards . as much as the dangerous brothers (pearson and tatum) tried to big it up , it was still an over hyped meeting with so many double uppers in it . its time to move all those d/uppers into the lite league on a permanent bases and then next time we will see a British final worthy of the name , hopefully there will be more than 2 elite full timers . with only be a few p.l. riders in it and the public will feel that they are seeing ACTUAL elite riders in the meeting . danny king , the eventual winner. deserved it . harris and nichols didnt dererve to be in the meeting at all . time for scott to take a step back and give someone else a chance , his days as a top rider are coming to an end , .fast.. harris needs to bin the briggs and stratton engine and get back on the weslake (prob faster than that thing he rode last night ) must be getting paid a awful lot to ride that donkey . woldorf and statler making excuses for the not so full stadium . weather , Mancunian way inop. na just the line up was enough to put anyone off . good looking stadium and looks a good track . BUT 2 FULL TIME ELITE RACERS IN THE MEETING , COME ON .... time to make these d/u move into the lite league and bring some genuine young British talent into the pl. Harris used BOTH engines, funny how Lindgren's career has been rescued by the GTR and he reckons Harris is his own problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed ace Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 So you force double uppers to ride Elite only, and then what? Half of them retire because the EL doesn't offer them enough fixtures and they can't get rides abroad. Result fewer British riders and more mediocre foreigners in our top league. To get more top class British riders you need more Brits at every level right down to 125cc. That requires effort and does not happen overnight - and it should be acknowledged that there have been some positive signs in that direction over the last couple of years. Think you need to remember it's not just British riders doubling up To get progression riders need to commit to a higher level to make room in the league below for the next crop to move up. The way things are there is too big a gap in ability between NL and PL but virtually nothing between PL and EL. Protecting PL No.7s heat 4 ride, but moving them to the main body when average allows is as much a backward step as letting EDRs go into the main body without having first changed the heat format, to at least allow them to achieve a true average, not one gained by only riding against fellow reserves and second strings. That said, I believe that the EDR system has helped riders develop, unfortunately it hasn't evolved to let more in year on year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyfox Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Sadly at the end of the day that's the best we have got nowadays.Times have changed in terms of World Class British riders. Dont forget Tai. All is not lost. Great meeting but you are right it was difficult to judge the level these guys are at. However I think we have to go with the Danny King and "the youth squad" for the WTC as it is at the same track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Well I thought it was a cracking meeting, with about 10 riders in with a shout late on in the meeting. Grumble grumble grumble. i wasn't taking a pop at the standard of racing. the meeting was good . its just the standard of the riders in the meeting .. i aint knocking the guys in it. just that where have all the proper British el guys gone ? way too many doubling up/down . i think next season , teams will only be allowed 1 d/u rider and try to get some of the top pl guys to move up on a permanent bases . crumble, crumble , crumble . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Dont forget Tai. All is not lost. Great meeting but you are right it was difficult to judge the level these guys are at. However I think we have to go with the Danny King and "the youth squad" for the WTC as it is at the same track. It was a good meeting and it augers well for the WTC regarding the track sure we will see some great racing,it's a good job we are seeded to the final though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrace Grumbler Posted June 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Interesting discussion - but what I had in mind was a different question. How would a Monarchs team led by Carr, Schott and Schlein, with -say- Dalle Andersson and the early noughties Armadale crew in support fare against this year's seven? Or, would you back a Newcastle team with Eriksson, Olsen (J) and Walsh as its heat leaders against this year's team? I'm not carping and wishing for the old days - I just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baba Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Speedway can't move forward while so many of its fans live in the past. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Speedway can't move forward while so many of its fans live in the past. you are right and pretty good thread, just seen brit final, thought it was really good. excellent move by king in the final. yes, the standard don't match up to the past, but if you look at it as a night out, belle vue dished up a "good night out". if you look at it as the future of speedway, are you still optimistic? I'm guilty of comparing it with the past, but I now realise, like tv entertainment, the golden age is unlikely to return..its about accepting what we now have 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Puzzled by the last bit of your statement Colin. Surely TV now is better than ever. Series like The Wire, True Detective, Luther etc. are,Imo, far far better than anything made in the past. Yes there is dross if u watch reality TV, but the hood quality stuff is better than anything historically. Maybe there's an argument you could say the same about the raving in gps vs the old world champs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond@heart Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Puzzled by the last bit of your statement Colin. Surely TV now is better than ever. Series like The Wire, True Detective, Luther etc. are,Imo, far far better than anything made in the past. Yes there is dross if u watch reality TV, but the hood quality stuff is better than anything historically. Maybe there's an argument you could say the same about the raving in gps vs the old world champs? Who's raving in the GP's!! Glow sticks at the ready!! Now that would make the GP's more interesting in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike7164 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Speedway can't move forward while so many of its fans live in the past. The past is where its at IMHO, if you go back say five years then say go back year by year you just see it becoming better and better ie more choice riders bigger crowd etc more entertaining meetings & imo were cheaper and more of a spectacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigeddiechek Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 The past is where its at IMHO, if you go back say five years then say go back year by year you just see it becoming better and better ie more choice riders bigger crowd etc more entertaining meetings & imo were cheaper and more of a spectacle. Also predominantly amateur? If you go back to a certain point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrace Grumbler Posted June 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 The past is where its at IMHO, if you go back say five years then say go back year by year you just see it becoming better and better ie more choice riders bigger crowd etc more entertaining meetings & imo were cheaper and more of a spectacle. Yes, but it's not actually there, is it? (If you can sort it, I'd like to see Paul Bentley take on Sean Wilson round Brough. If you can't manage that, Wilson chasing Stonehewer round the centre green at Owlerton is something I'd pay money to see again) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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