Sidney the robin Posted June 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 (edited) Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin? Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin?Gundersen would not be there on just some decent performances surely? great rider but Hyde Rd he would not get in a top six would he.? Edited June 15, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Gundersen would not be there on just some decent performances surely? great rider but Hyde Rd he would not get in a top six would he.?In my era (80s) I'd go Carter gundersen Morton. Nielsen probably in there somewhere, but wouldn't consider him a Hyde Rd specialist, just awesome everywhere once he hit his peak! Gundersen won two blrc, was in a run off for another, equal track record holder, and was generally dominant there in the league. Maybe not top 6 ever, but cetaonly close - I'm guessing other aces fans may debate whether he or Carter was the best visiting rider in the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted June 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 In my era (80s) I'd go Carter gundersen Morton. Nielsen probably in there somewhere, but wouldn't consider him a Hyde Rd specialist, just awesome everywhere once he hit his peak! Gundersen won two blrc, was in a run off for another, equal track record holder, and was generally dominant there in the league. Maybe not top 6 ever, but cetaonly close - I'm guessing other aces fans may debate whether he or Carter was the best visiting rider in the 80s. Carter top of the eighties,(not in the NLRC) when Mort mugged him, Ivan,Ole,PC with Mort close were the best i see at Hyde Rd Nielsen, Gundo close after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 In my era (80s) I'd go Carter gundersen Morton. Nielsen probably in there somewhere, but wouldn't consider him a Hyde Rd specialist, just awesome everywhere once he hit his peak! Gundersen won two blrc, was in a run off for another, equal track record holder, and was generally dominant there in the league. Maybe not top 6 ever, but cetaonly close - I'm guessing other aces fans may debate whether he or Carter was the best visiting rider in the 80s. Â Weird thing is the only time I saw Gundersen at Hyde Road, he scored 4 points (1987 BLRC). Not sure what happened to Erik that day. Although he did better than Shawn Moran, who bizarrely failed to score. Â That was the one Morton chucked away. He gated on Nielsen, and held him off, despite Hans throwing the kitchen sink at him, but then dropped a couple of points in what looked an easy ride. Hans made no more mistakes and won the meeting. Â I agree that Hans wasn't necessarily a Hyde Road specialist (not in the same way he was a Monmore Green specialist or a Dudley Wood specialist, much to the utter dismay of the Cradley fans!), but I've seen the video of the 1986 BLRC and he destroyed the field that day, romping to a maximum. Â All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 Along with the other pc, Olsen and Carter? Or Mauger? Gundersen? Parker or fundin?Out of interest, where would you place Ron Johnston in all this? There are also a number of pre-War riders of course like Eric Langton and Max Grosskreutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Out of interest, where would you place Ron Johnston in all this? Â There are also a number of pre-War riders of course like Eric Langton and Max Grosskreutz I wouldn't claim to have enough knowledge to rank those riders norbold, so would be interested in the views of a speedway historian such as yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Out of interest, where would you place Ron Johnston in all this?  There are also a number of pre-War riders of course like Eric Langton and Max Grosskreutz  I remember watching Eric Langton of Belle Vue in the 1946 and 1947 seasons. and Max Grosskreutz when he rode for Bradford in 1947 and 1948. And, of course, I saw Vic Duggan, Jack Parker, Ron Johnson, Graham Warren, Wilbur Lamoraeux and so many more of that calibre in those early post-war seasons . Edited June 16, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Do you mean Ron Johnston the tall New Zealander who rode for BV in the 50's early 60's - if so, he was a good rider but IMO not in the same class as those already mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Â I remember watching Eric Langton of Belle Vue in the 1946 and 1947 seasons. and Max Grosskreutz when he rode for Bradford in 1947 and 1948. And, of course, I saw Vic Duggan, Jack Parker, Ron Johnson, Graham Warren, Wilbur Lamoraeux and so many more of that calibre in those early post-war seasons . Â Â Do you mean Ron Johnston the tall New Zealander who rode for BV in the 50's early 60's - if so, he was a good rider but IMO not in the same class as those already mentioned. Â No OveFundinFan, the rider I mean is the pioneer Australian rider Ron JOHNSON, who rode for his country, Crystal Palace and New Cross in his great days of speedway before suffering a serious head injury in a match at Wimbledon in 1949. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Out of interest, where would you place Ron Johnston in all this? Â There are also a number of pre-War riders of course like Eric Langton and Max Grosskreutz Ron Johnston had a very good record at Hyde Road. Although not achieving World Championship success he performed consistently at the top level for his team for over 10 years. In 1957 he was fourth in the league averages on 10.27, ahead of Barry Briggs, with the top three being Craven, Fundin and Bob Roger. He ended his final season with Belle Vue in 1961 with a league average of 10.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Do you mean Ron Johnston the tall New Zealander who rode for BV in the 50's early 60's - if so, he was a good rider but IMO not in the same class as those already mentioned. Yes, I know he wasn't quite in the same class, but I meant as a performer on his home track. Â Â Â Â No OveFundinFan, the rider I mean is the pioneer Australian rider Ron JOHNSON, who rode for his country, Crystal Palace and New Cross in his great days of speedway before suffering a serious head injury in a match at Wimbledon in 1949. OveFundinFan was talking to me! Â Ron Johnston had a very good record at Hyde Road. Although not achieving World Championship success he performed consistently at the top level for his team for over 10 years. In 1957 he was fourth in the league averages on 10.27, ahead of Barry Briggs, with the top three being Craven, Fundin and Bob Roger. He ended his final season with Belle Vue in 1961 with a league average of 10.00. There you go, that's what I meant. Thanks BL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Norbold - in your opinion how would he compare with the mighty Mort round Hyde Rd? Seems their top flight record may be similar, though mort did once finish 2nd in the bl averages. Edge to mort virtue of his blrc triumph and holding the track record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Yes I was replying to Norbold when he asked about Ron Johnston. I knew him as a New Zealander, and Wilipedia lists him as a New Zealander, born in Dundedin. Sadly passed away in 2014. Actually he didn't have too bad a record in the world finals 1955 12th, 1957 6th, 1958 8th and 1960 5th. He was good around Hyde Road, usually guaranteed a good race from him. Well known in the pit area for his flashy American cars, think I can remember a Studebaker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) I wouldn't claim to have enough knowledge to rank those riders norbold, so would be interested in the views of a speedway historian such as yourselfThere were some truly great Belle Vue riders before the War. In a five year run from 1934-1938, they never had less than three riders in the top 10 averages. 1934: Eric Langton (2nd), Bill Kitchen (7th), Joe Abbott (9th) 1935: Max Grosskreutz (4th), Bill Kitchen (5th), Eric langton (6th) 1936: Max Grosskreutz (2nd), Eric Langton (6th), Joe Abbott (7th), Bill Kitchen (8th) 1937: Eric Langton (3rd), Bill Kitchen (5th), Joe Abbott (7th) 1938: Bill Kitchen (5th), Frank Varey (7th), Eric Langton (10th)  No other team achieved that record even once during that period! Norbold - in your opinion how would he compare with the mighty Mort round Hyde Rd? Seems their top flight record may be similar, though mort did once finish 2nd in the bl averages. Edge to mort virtue of his blrc triumph and holding the track record?I don't think I can really answer that as I have only ever been to Belle Vue once (shame!), so can't really say how Ron Johnston and Chris Morton might have compared. The reason I mentioned Ron Johnston though comes back again to my New Cross experience. The first time I saw Belle Vue there, Ron Johnston scored an 18 point maximum compared to Peter Craven's 13. He then outscored Craven every time I saw them both at New Cross. In addition, when I wrote my book, "Speedway's Classic Meetings", I featured the Norwich v. Belle Vue Britannia Shield Final 2nd Leg held at Norwich in 1957. Once again it was Johnston who proved the match winner for Belle Vue, scoring a 15 point maximum to Craven's 13. This included Johnston beating Ove Fundin on Fundin's own track of course, while Craven lost to him (and Aub Lawson).  In addition to that, as OveFundinFan says, he came 5th in the World Final in my first year of speedway.  So right from the beginning, I have had a very favourable impression of Ron Johnston as an outstanding rider - even better than Peter Craven in the matches I personally witnessed or studied, so I was just interested really in a Belle Vue fan's view of him. Edited June 16, 2016 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Â Â OveFundinFan was talking to me! Â Â I can't mind read norbold. OveFundinFan's comment came up in a board sequence following a post I made where I mentioned my dear old friend Ron Johnson. Yes I was replying to Norbold when he asked about Ron Johnston. I knew him as a New Zealander, and Wilipedia lists him as a New Zealander, born in Dundedin. Sadly passed away in 2014. Actually he didn't have too bad a record in the world finals 1955 12th, 1957 6th, 1958 8th and 1960 5th. He was good around Hyde Road, usually guaranteed a good race from him. Well known in the pit area for his flashy American cars, think I can remember a Studebaker. Thank you for the clarification OveFundiFan. Another thread it seems where I am persona non grata! There were some truly great Belle Vue riders before the War. In a five year run from 1934-1938, they never had less than three riders in the top 10 averages. Â 1934: Eric Langton (2nd), Bill Kitchen (7th), Joe Abbott (9th) 1935: Max Grosskreutz (4th), Bill Kitchen (5th), Eric langton (6th) 1936: Max Grosskreutz (2nd), Eric Langton (6th), Joe Abbott (7th), Bill Kitchen (8th) 1937: Eric Langton (3rd), Bill Kitchen (5th), Joe Abbott (7th) 1938: Bill Kitchen (5th), Frank Varey (7th), Eric Langton (10th) Â Â Except Frank Varey I saw all the named riders race in the immediate post-war seasons from 1946 onwards. Edited June 16, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 . Another thread it seems where I am persona non grata! Â Â Blimey,how many aliases has this guy got? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) I can't mind read norbold. OveFundinFan's comment came up in a board sequence following a post I made where I mentioned my dear old friend Ron Johnson. Thank you for the clarification OveFundiFan. Another thread it seems where I am persona non grata! Â Â Blimey,how many aliases has this guy got? Â No aliases at all iris123 - probably not since three years ago - as well you know! And I thought you were intelligent enough to know what persona non grata means. As obviously I was wrong in my assumption, it means this "...In diplomacy, the term persona non grata (Latin, plural: personae non gratae), literally meaning "Person not appreciated" And that definition is something you iris123 and your cohorts work hard at making sure is the case as it affects me on this forum! Edited June 16, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 Sorry mate,you didn't make it clear enough what you meant.Guess with your modus operandi(Latin,plural:modi operandi) anyone could get confused 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016    No aliases at all iris123 - probably not since three years ago - as well you know! And I thought you were intelligent enough to know what persona non grata means. As obviously I was wrong in my assumption, it means this "...In diplomacy, the term persona non grata (Latin, plural: personae non gratae), literally meaning "Person not appreciated" And that definition is something you iris123 and your cohorts work hard at making sure is the case as it affects me on this forum!   Sorry mate,you didn't make it clear enough what you meant.Guess with your modus operandi(Latin,plural:modi operandi) anyone could get confused  ​I think iris123 that norbold would have understood the Latin quotation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016    ​I think iris123 that norbold would have understood the Latin quotation! No point in trying to play one-upmanship because I understood who OveFundinFan was replying to and you obviously didn't.I have no doubt norbold Is cleverer than me though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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