Second Half Meetings....

[BWitcher]

 

That just seems even more ludicrous to me than watching the youth riders! Maybe it was more acceptable back in the day but I can't imagine many newbies in this day and age finding it anything other than a bit of a circus. Again I only speak for myself but I can't imagine any reason why I'd want to stay after the meeting to watch the same riders essentially have a challenge meeting against each other.

 

I'd rather clubs concentrated on getting the 15 heats presented properly, efficiently and in as competitive a manner as possible.

 

Exactly, the old style second halves really are a thing of the past and will never return.

 

I do agree though that junior racing in the 2nd half of meetings should be encouraged. Although I mentioned earlier that most fans don't stay to watch, I was not and when I have the opportunity to attend now, am not one of them as I do watch.

 

I totally agree also that the main priority should be in the presentation of the main meeting.

[Alan_Jones]

Rye House are currently running 3 150cc box class races for a regular group of riders before the main meeting starts.

[speedibee]

 

With you on this. I can't even watch the National League Young Stars as they're just 'the reserve team' as such. No interest at all.

 

Can't bear the MDL, seen a few races and it just became unbearable watching them throw themselves at the fence.

 

I'm all for the 15 heat 'main event' then go home.

where will the riders for heat 15 come from in the future if the kids dont get a chance in the present , dont come the practises and amateur rubbish . because they are worlds apart from actual racing ,in a team , in a league under all the rules of real speedway .., would not surpirse me one bit ,to find you on another thread complaining that our leagues are full of foreigners , attitudes like yours and a few others are the very reason why our teams are full of journeymen foreign riders , instead of being full of richie worralls ,

[iris123]

 

Correct..

 

At most tracks the vast majority of the crowd leave at the end of the main meeting.

It is what used to happen in the 70s and 80s.I generally always stayed,but I was in a minority.Some I guess look back through rose tinted glasses or maybe the tracks I visited were different to those others visited and most people stayed,though I doubt it

[Gresham]

where will the riders for heat 15 come from in the future if the kids dont get a chance in the present , dont come the practises and amateur rubbish . because they are worlds apart from actual racing ,in a team , in a league under all the rules of real speedway .., would not surpirse me one bit ,to find you on another thread complaining that our leagues are full of foreigners , attitudes like yours and a few others are the very reason why our teams are full of journeymen foreign riders , instead of being full of richie worralls ,

It is a shame more people don't take an interest.

 

But it is the same in many sports. Many people are only interested in the main event and the result...they have no interest in the sportsman's journey...they just want to see the finished article.

 

It's good to read about young British riders being invested in heavily, and academy's being pushed and promoted. It's just a shame so much money has to be invested in finding speed for these youngsters, just so they can compete with the highly sponsored youngsters abroad.

 

I'm guessing a lot of British talent has gone to waste because of the costs involved. Sad if you have the talent, but not the finance to compete competitively.

 

I'm guessing you have two camps which has been alluded too...those who like the meetings, and their team, and those who follow speedway as a whole.

 

I got my interest in following speedway and watching the youngsters develop, by staying behind for the second halves, and listening to my friend who was an ex rider, who would explain everything happening. Hearing it through a riders eyes and opinions certainly made it more enjoyable.

[steve roberts]

It is what used to happen in the 70s and 80s.I generally always stayed,but I was in a minority.Some I guess look back through rose tinted glasses or maybe the tracks I visited were different to those others visited and most people stayed,though I doubt it

As I've stated many times before we were fortunate at Cowley in that we got to see the kids of Eastbourne and Peterborough due to the promotional tie up during 'The Rebels' era and later at White City.

 

Oxford even introduced grass trackers to compete in the second half and we got to see the likes of Julian Wigg, Ken Matthews, Chris Drewett (who used to service my car), Paul Tapp, Kevin Hawkins etc who all progressed in some measure. They were exciting times at Cowley and one that I'm glad I experienced.

 

Remember a young Ashley Pullen plying his trade down at Weymouth as an unknown and Simon Wigg at Reading. A great platform for youngsters to progress riding against the senior riders.

 

Also saw Michael Lee start out as a fifteen year old back in 1974 during a second half at Cowley and somebody called Tony Brooklister...who turned out to be Colin Mededith under a pseudonym!

Edited May 31, 2016 by steve roberts

[topsoil]

Those who don't want to watch, simple, they don't have to. I still think second half junior racing is an important part of the sport to breed new young riders. If you want to stay on and watch them do so, if not, don't. It's not everybody's cup of tea, but interesting to some.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Again I only speak for myself but I can't imagine any reason why I'd want to stay after the meeting to watch the same riders essentially have a challenge meeting against each other.

I think 20 heats is about the right length for a meeting and would provide better value for money provided it's run properly and not unnecessarily dragged out.

 

Seeing riders race in a different format with juniors mixed in could still be interesting if it was done properly, such as reasonable prize being put up and the second-halves linked to some sort of meaningful season-long competition. The problem with the old second halves was lack of continuity from week-to-week and increasingly diminishing points money that discouraged riders from taking them seriously.

 

There big issue though, would be the potentially increased costs of running the second halves, although I think that could ultimately be addressed by splitting existing points money. Some riders might not like it, but that leads to the wider issue about what riders British speedway can afford anyway.

[Nobblytriers]

Are there any/many reasons why the second half can't be put on before the main event? I think there may be some advantages to letting the juniors race first.

There would be some activity going on as people arrive making it more exciting, especially for a newcomer, thereby creating a better atmosphere.

The track will have been raced on with the dirt line moved, and it would give the main event riders a chance to see how the track races.

More people would get to see the up and coming riders learning their craft and may take an interest in their development.

The start time would be moved forward to allow the meeting as a whole to be completed and those there early enough to see it all would have good value for money.

It would certainly take away some of the quiet time that exists while you wait for the meeting to start, listening to 70's music or the centre green announcer rattling on about nothing with a bad radio mic. ( BTW, why do most tracks seem to play the same music? I thought that if you had a public licence you could play anything you like!)

[steve roberts]

Are there any/many reasons why the second half can't be put on before the main event? I think there may be some advantages to letting the juniors race first.

There would be some activity going on as people arrive making it more exciting, especially for a newcomer, thereby creating a better atmosphere.

The track will have been raced on with the dirt line moved, and it would give the main event riders a chance to see how the track races.

More people would get to see the up and coming riders learning their craft and may take an interest in their development.

The start time would be moved forward to allow the meeting as a whole to be completed and those there early enough to see it all would have good value for money.

It would certainly take away some of the quiet time that exists while you wait for the meeting to start, listening to 70's music or the centre green announcer rattling on about nothing with a bad radio mic. ( BTW, why do most tracks seem to play the same music? I thought that if you had a public licence you could play anything you like!)

My memory isn't what it once was but I recall Oxford running flying lap races prior to the commencement of the main meeting involving those same riders? Was this a national initiative or just a Cowley thing? Perhaps Rob can clarify?

Edited May 31, 2016 by steve roberts

[Starman2006]

...just interested to know what extra races, Clubs are putting on for us fans at different tracks?

 

Is it something that you enjoy?

 

I mentioned it in another thread, that Somerset have another 6 heat meeting planned this Friday...Exeter v MDL select.

 

21 heats for £15....good value for money imo...and something I always look forward to.

 

 

 

Understand what you are saying but nowadays riders do not really want that, in the 70's it was the done thing as there was nothing else. But most clubs now get near to there curfew anyway.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Starman2006

[Red Flag]

I stop and watch second halves but I wish they were proper second halves as used to be run at Belle Vue (Hyde Road) all riders from the main meeting taking part. Prize money and a trophy donated by a local company. .

proper second halves as you call them were made up of 1, riders who had had a good meeting not bothered and mostly having "a bad ride and going home" 2, riders with something to prove trying in the qualifying heats and 3, riders in the final agreeing to split the prize money and no overtaking after the 2nd bend keep it for me

[steve roberts]

Personally I think that those tracks who had a 'sister' track operating in the old Second Division had more to offer in the way of a meaningful second half. Belle Vue, King's Lynn, Oxford (for reasons given above) and Ipswich (amongst others) had a thriving youth policy and it was good to see these riders develop against the main body of the team in the second half.

 

I for one enjoyed the old style second half but the emphasis on bringing on and developing ones own talent was lost years ago.

[martinmauger]

I almost always stay to watch anf mini matches or 2nd halves, you've already paid entry to watch speedway to why not. At Hull Craven Park, we had a 10pm curfew and unless there were any incedents the main match often ended at 9.25-9.35 and we got used to 2 and 3-rider races. The odd Hull team rider might test equipment, and possibly another laegue rider, but pretty much it was the same few juniors / 2nd halfers getting in as much track time as they could keep fuelling and prepping their bikes. Think it was only 2003 when a proper season long 2nd half competition took place of 4 'teams' representing Hull(!) or the odd challenge v the likes of Boston, Scunny, Redcar etc, featuring the likes of Rob Hollingworth, Adam Allot, Richard Hall, Josh Auty....

[Hawk127]

What I find difficult to understand from some of the comments I s that the riders have to start somewhere. All those fathers who stand on the touchline and watch the son play football in some meaningless game, what is the difference between that and watching new riders develop. The youngsters need encouragement and having a few genuine supporters watch them go through the paces has to be good for their morale. All the riders have to start somewhere and learn their track craft. It is not 'rose tinted nostalgia' The second half was often a continuation of the 'needle' factor amongst certain riders. When people refer back to how good it use to be, the riding may have been the same but at least you could support a team of riders who basically were your team year on year whereas today it is a lottery. It included those at 6 and 7 who were often less than capable but they developed because of the experience. Today it is essentially a bunch of individuals wearing 1 to 7 but team riding, working the fans and putting themselves out for the team simply does not happen and team riding is a lost skill amongst the gate and go merchants. Everyone who rides deserves support and staying on for effectively another 10 minutes or racing is not that much of an hardship. I guess it comes down to do you support and watch speedway or are you simply a team supporter and not a speedway supporter/enthusiast.

[Red Flag]

Today's second halves with young kids starting out and at novice level and learning and developing with their Dads watching is great and should be encouraged but old style second halves no thanks

[Gresham]

Understand what you are saying but nowadays riders do not really want that, in the 70's it was the done thing as there was nothing else. But most clubs now get near to there curfew anyway.

I wasn't actually saying anything fella...just asking a question as to what was going on and whether people enjoyed it etc. :-)

 

The thread has taken it's own passage it seems...which is good...it's nice to hear peoples thoughts :-)

 

I agree though...second halves like in the 70's are a thing of the past.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Understand what you are saying but nowadays riders do not really want that, in the 70's it was the done thing as there was nothing else. But most clubs now get near to there curfew anyway.

Is the sport being run for the benefit of the riders or the (few remaining) paying punters? And tracks being incapable to run 15 heats let alone 20 inside 2.5 hours is nothing short of pathetic. Of course it can be done if there's a will as it used to be done in the past - what's changed apart from the expectation that promoters will drag out fewer heats over a longer time?

 

Unless the show improves and offers substantially better value for money, then speedway is done.

[Starman2006]

Is the sport being run for the benefit of the riders or the (few remaining) paying punters? And tracks being incapable to run 15 heats let alone 20 inside 2.5 hours is nothing short of pathetic. Of course it can be done if there's a will as it used to be done in the past - what's changed apart from the expectation that promoters will drag out fewer heats over a longer time?

 

Unless the show improves and offers substantially better value for money, then speedway is done.

I agree, but how many EL meetings go on after 21.30, i would hazzard a guess quite a few. Then you have to keep your staff the st johns will want paying on top and the list goes on, not quite so easy nowadays. In the early 70's for example i was young enough not to know, but was there a curfew then ? Im not sure there was.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Starman2006

[topsoil]

I agree, but how many EL meetings go on after 21.30, i would hazzard a guess quite a few. Then you have to keep your staff the st johns will want paying on top and the list goes on, not quite so easy nowadays. In the early 70's for example i was young enough not to know, but was there a curfew then ? Im not sure there was.

Then make it more efficient. Cut out the unnecessary delays (obviously injuries are unavoidable) but there are a lot of meetings which become drawn out for no reason whatsoever. If there are no injury delays it should be perfectly possible to run 21 heats in time. It would probably attract more fans as well, a slicker run operation.