CUFC_Brummie Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Well there you go, I didn't know that, never seen it written anywhere but I'll take your word for it. Makes it even more farcical then that the likes of Armstrong and Atkin are allowed in then. As long as they're there Hall should be allowed in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Here's the official speedway regulations document 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 This is just wrong if it's within the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 This is just wrong if it's within the rules. Yep it is. Averages are used from 2011 to 2015 whether it be NL or PL doubled, whichever is higher. Hall has a current PL average but no NL average. Yet they're making a deal out of his 2004 CL average, despite the fact that Bowen was allowed in on his PL average converted (which follows the rules!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 or 3 teams Including the one affected by this decision , would not be running but for the lower cost of running in the league they are in , Adding riders such as Richard Hall ( nothing personal here) would only increase the cost ,most of the lads currently riding in the National league have ambition to step up to the premier /elite leagues where they can have a professional career , and are riding in the NL as an apprenticeship towards that goal at limited earnings . once one Richard Hall joins the payroll , then every team will need to find one , and off we go spiralling costs and clubs closing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) The BSPA are right to block this move. Hall is a seasoned PL-quality regular. He should be looking for another place in the PL. The main thing that's keeping him out of a place is that there's too many substandard foreigners in the PL. The NL is not a fallback league for riders who should be in the PL but have lost their place. And is he going to ride for £10 a point? or will he be paid over the odds, thus pushing up the costs of genuine NL teams? I might have some sympathy if a struggling NL side were trying to bring him in on a 10.00+ average as a big hitting No.1, but when the NL league leaders are trying to fiddle him in as a 3rd heat-leader to strengthen them up, that's just taking the mickey. Edited May 23, 2016 by John Leslie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) The BSPA are right to block this move. Hall is a seasoned PL-quality regular. He should be looking for another place in the PL. The main thing that's keeping him out of a place is that there's too many substandard foreigners in the PL. The NL is not a fallback league for riders who should be in the PL but have lost their place. I might have some sympathy if a struggling NL side were trying to bring him in on a 10.00+ average as a big hitting No.1, but when the NL league leaders are trying to fiddle him in as a 3rd heat-leader to strengthen them up, that's just taking the mickey. I actually agree with your whole post but my problem is that I don't think rules should be applied on a team by team basis. They should be applied equally and consistently to all teams. If he could ride for Buxton then he should be able to ride for Birmingham. I don't like the idea of it because you are right, they are just taking the mickey. But if it's within the rules..... Edited May 23, 2016 by Speedball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 The issue is that there is nothing in the rules stopping Richard Hall from signing for Birmingham. Whether that is right or wrong from the standpoint of the National League being a development league is irrelevant. Eastbourne recently signed a rider (Adam Ellis) who is currently averaging eight points a meeting in the Elite League, Richard Hall's latest rolling figure is below four in the Premier League. Both are eligible, so both moves should have been approved in my opinion. We also have riders such as Clifton, Rutherford and Purchase who have started the season on assessed figures lower than the ones they last recorded when they were third tier riders. The National League should be looking to encourage the development of young British riders without a doubt, however a smattering of experienced riders such as Jon Armstrong, David Mason, Luke Bowen, Ben Wilson and Tony Atkin is incredibly valuable for our young riders. The knowledge these riders pass on in the pits will stand them in good stead, watching them on the track and riding with and against them on the track will help their development and having them about gives the young riders a real target to aim for. A Premier League promoter looking to sign a reserve will be looking for a rider who has the scalp of riders such as Bowen and Wilson who have recently been 4/5 point PL riders. Each side should be allowed one 'experienced' rider, that being someone who has raced in the Premier League or higher for a set number of years or more. It has been widely reported how young this season's Birmingham team is, they shouldn't be penalised for trying to replace Tom Perry's scoring with a rider potentially capable of matching it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 The National League is not a development league, it's a third division, the MDL is the country's development league. The fact it's home to so many youngsters is simply reflective of the complete lack of depth in riders we have in this country. So the National DEVELOPMENT League is not a development league? Mind you, the Elite and Premier leagues are not very Elite and certainly not premier either so you could have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUFC_Brummie Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Come on SCB, at least read the rest of the thread before you choose to attack someone. Unlike a lot of people on here I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Tell atkin and armstrong their too expierienced to ride nl then. Absolute joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Hold on, but Richard Hall isn't being blocked from riding in the NDL. He can sign for anyone - if they're willing to accommodate his average. Birmingham could accommodate him by releasing other riders. Same as Peterborough did with Craig Cook. All the best Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Hold on, but Richard Hall isn't being blocked from riding in the NDL. He can sign for anyone - if they're willing to accommodate his average. Birmingham could accommodate him by releasing other riders. Same as Peterborough did with Craig Cook. All the best Rob On an average that was gained 12 years ago. The whole situation is farcical there are riders riding in the league that have as much experience and of older or around Richard's age. The league is a lot stronger these days than it was previously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagrag Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 It all seems wrong that they want to use an average from so long ago yet they allowed Adam Ellis join Eastbourne when he was an EL heatleader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Hold on, but Richard Hall isn't being blocked from riding in the NDL. He can sign for anyone - if they're willing to accommodate his average. Birmingham could accommodate him by releasing other riders. Same as Peterborough did with Craig Cook. All the best Rob If it's a case of the most petty argument wins then of course Birmingham could always appeal on the basis that Hall hasn't got a NL average as it was the Conference League in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander15 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) The BSPA are right to block this move. Hall is a seasoned PL-quality regular. He should be looking for another place in the PL. The main thing that's keeping him out of a place is that there's too many substandard foreigners in the PL. The NL is not a fallback league for riders who should be in the PL but have lost their place. And is he going to ride for £10 a point? or will he be paid over the odds, thus pushing up the costs of genuine NL teams? I might have some sympathy if a struggling NL side were trying to bring him in on a 10.00+ average as a big hitting No.1, but when the NL league leaders are trying to fiddle him in as a 3rd heat-leader to strengthen them up, that's just taking the mickey. Hold on here, Birmingham aren't even doing that. Perry is averaging about 1.5 points more than Hall is in the PL. Hall lost his job at Sheffield after all and yet Peterborough made a double change and still kept Perry! On current form Perry is the better rider and the statistics back that up. Whilst Birmingham, Hall and Perry have all been perfectly clear that once Perry is fit then he'll be back. Hold on, but Richard Hall isn't being blocked from riding in the NDL. He can sign for anyone - if they're willing to accommodate his average. Birmingham could accommodate him by releasing other riders. Same as Peterborough did with Craig Cook. All the best Rob So then Bowen should've started on his old CL figure, Rutherford on 4.64 from his Newport days etc. But the rules say Bowen should have come on his PL figure converted (which he did), whilst Rutherford, Clifton and Purchase all rode before 2011 so were allowed an assessed figure (which they did). They all followed the rules but the BSPA ignores them for Hall and aren't even applying the 'best interests' principle consistently. How is Hall actually a better rider now than Bowen?? Edited May 23, 2016 by Islander15 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 'cos he's in the British final? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Hold on, but Richard Hall isn't being blocked from riding in the NDL. He can sign for anyone - if they're willing to accommodate his average. Birmingham could accommodate him by releasing other riders. Same as Peterborough did with Craig Cook. All the best Rob But that would be against the rules surely? It is officially the National Development League. In name only, it helps to keep the Aussies out and justifies that it is for BRITISH riders only! Like many I feel Richard is not for this league but to invent a rule to contradict a rule and interpret it like it's never been interpreted before, not withstanding it was deemed to be beneficial to have one British old hand (loophole if needed) over the age of 25 and the fact that Tony Atkin rode for Bradford in the equivalent of the Elite League (The highest tier in British Speedway at the time) really does ridicule the sport. "Richard I'm really sorry NL isn't for you we'll do everything we can to find you a spot in one of the other leagues even if it means we have to with-hold a Certificate of Sponsorship" would have been a far more acceptable response. 12 years is a long, long time if he had been jailed for less than 2 years for robbery or burglary it would not need to be declared after 10 years but the crime of progressing in your career during teen years should not penalise him in his thirties. They should have covered this possibility off properly at the NL AGM but of course they wanted to keep the door ajar just in case, as always, so time for another U turn and follow the rule book or don't ever apply it's contents again. Edited May 23, 2016 by Byker Biker 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Richard Hall just needs a couple of wins under his belt and If he gets his confidence back and rides to the level he rode in the 06 Grand EL final then he could be a dark horse for the Team GB Squad. Hall is one of the few British riders who suits the wide Polish tracks and that experience could be invaluable in World Cup's Edited May 23, 2016 by Morrissey Fan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveallan81 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 CUFC_Brummie, on 23 May 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:If it's a genuine development league then let's make it U23 only, which is fine by me, but that's not how it is right now. From the latest NL green sheets more than half of the declared riders are aged 23 or older. That's 45 riders out of 87. 29 of them are aged 25 or over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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