Gresham Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) If a certain person read my posts correctly, they will also see that I've agreed numerous times, that racing nowadays is just the same...as it can be strung out or close. Where we have disagreed, is on other parts of the sport, which I've tried to explain, but seem to go woosh over their head. Racing, as in being strung out...is exactly the same. Tracks, bikes, set up, regs, promotions, teams, clubs, Individual riders and certain aesthetics are different. And for me...that is what makes the difference. It may not be for others...as some seem to think it's purely the crowd that make it exciting. This is purely my preference and for certain others...why some people can't grasp that, and realise, we all find pleasure in speedway in our different ways, is beyond me. Why do I have to be told, why it is that I don't enjoy it, when that's from one persons perspective and not mine? We are all different.... Edited May 17, 2016 by Gresham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 Despite all the doom and gloom, I'm liking some of the things I'm seeing in the British leagues at the Moment. Obviously the NSS in Manchester is fantastic (I cannot wait to see the SWC there in July) Glasgow seem to be doing great things, Rye House seem to be trying to do the same. Sittingbourne is a cracking stadium, I'm a little surprised it's not been used for more to be honest. Norfolk arena is a nice little stadium these days, of course there is still Poole & Sheffield which are wonderful venues to watch Speedway and of course there are other nice venues that I've not mentioned. With regards to the racing I believe is it just as good as when I first started watching in 1983. The presentation is a bit outdated at a few places but on the whole most places seem to be trying to modernize. All we need now is the people running the sport to get their backsides in gear and start doing things correctly! Despite all the doom and gloom, I'm liking some of the things I'm seeing in the British leagues at the Moment. Obviously the NSS in Manchester is fantastic (I cannot wait to see the SWC there in July) Glasgow seem to be doing great things, Rye House seem to be trying to do the same. Sittingbourne is a cracking stadium, I'm a little surprised it's not been used for more to be honest. Norfolk arena is a nice little stadium these days, of course there is still Poole & Sheffield which are wonderful venues to watch Speedway and of course there are other nice venues that I've not mentioned. With regards to the racing I believe is it just as good as when I first started watching in 1983. The presentation is a bit outdated at a few places but on the whole most places seem to be trying to modernize. All we need now is the people running the sport to get their backsides in gear and start doing things correctly! Tell us what the BSPA has to do to make everything ok ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 Peterborough v Sheffield ; There were 12 races with passing after the first half lap and a total of 38 passes in all ( again after half a lap ) Racing does not get much better than that for a league match, Sheffield v Scunthorpe ... one would expect good entertaining racing at this fixture.... however only 3 races with passing after half a lap and only a total of 5 paases after haf a lap. I will say that this is out of character for a Sheffield match which rarely produces a poor match... but in this case it certainly was !! Pick the right teams at the right track and weather permitting you will get a good meeting. I have watched for over 50 years and we still get a mixture of the good ,the bad and the ugly regards meetings and entertainment Sadly crowds have deteriorated in recent years but that does not mean they cannot go back up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 If their view had any credibility there wouldn't be the issue in the first place. You see a sensible poster, if they get something wrong and it is corrected accepts that and they are happy to learn. I've been corrected on many things. Others start screaming about opinions. The problem falls with Group two and then those who pander to them. Now please can we get back on topic after Gresham has had his latest abuse riddled tantrum. I would have 'Liked' this Post BW had it not been for the final sentence. It just wasn't necessary. Regarding one of Greshams earlier points. I don't like being told why I have packed in going to Speedway either. I have made my reasons known on here times without number. I know why I don't attend. I just don't like the likes of orion and one or two others telling me why. They don't know me and they don't know what they are talking about either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 Let's not reopen the debate about you not attending on the grounds of an unfair rule, which is fairer than the rules that were in place for the majority of your years watching speedway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 As for concrete starting gates...how do you know people are more technically minded than me? Having worked in groundworks and the construction industry in the past...as a Quantity Surveyor and Architectural Tec, I think I'm quiet qualified to have some degree of knowledge on how things can be constructed. Well that's a load of cobblers, a QS basically measures things and an Architectural Technician is a low grade post within an Architectural practice which basically involves drawing pretty pictures. Neither of which get involved in structural or civil engineering design which is where the knowledge to know about this type of thing would come from. I should know as I've worked in the civils/construction industry for over 20 years so I'd say I am more technically minded than you on things such as this Concrete starting gates would be hugely dangerous for all of the reasons posted, and that's from a very experienced Civil/Structural Engineer not a QS or Architectural Technician both of which would have no understanding whatsoever of how a concrete starting gate would need to be designed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Well that's a load of cobblers, a QS basically measures things and an Architectural Technician is a low grade post within an Architectural practice which basically involves drawing pretty pictures. Neither of which get involved in structural or civil engineering design which is where the knowledge to know about this type of thing would come from. I should know as I've worked in the civils/construction industry for over 20 years so I'd say I am more technically minded than you on things such as this Concrete starting gates would be hugely dangerous for all of the reasons posted, and that's from a very experienced Civil/Structural Engineer not a QS or Architectural Technician both of which would have no understanding whatsoever of how a concrete starting gate would need to be designed. Funny that...I just sat in an office painting pretty pictures and counting bricks...didn't get involved in any Structural engineering at all. All these Contractors used to talk to me about developments...in Groundworks, Housing, roadworks...didn't have a clue what they were talking about. Surprised I was employed at all...Walked around with them talking numbers and how things needed to be done with the Contractors and Site Agents and Engineers...didn't have a clue...nadah... Didn't learn a thing in all my 30 years of doing...learnt nothing at Uni, and learnt nothing whilst out on site....Unbelievable... Edited May 18, 2016 by Gresham 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 the answer to the thread......1976 british final line up? ....2016 british final line up? ....40 yrs on, what a drop in standard! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 the answer to the thread......1976 british final line up? ....2016 british final line up? ....40 yrs on, what a drop in standard! But your still get people saying that the standard does not matter ..as I said many times as the standard has dropped so have the crowds and that trend will carry on . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 the answer to the thread......1976 british final line up? ....2016 british final line up? ....40 yrs on, what a drop in standard! For a long time now Britain has been a training ground for young European riders at the expense of young British riders. As a consequence we have fallen behind internationally as you intimate. When I started watching any foreigners new to the league were world class riders.... Heat leaders in the top league.... Until we have a comprehensive system to develop our own riders we will not rise back to former glories. Some steps have been made but we still have a long way to go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 the answer to the thread......1976 british final line up? ....2016 british final line up? ....40 yrs on, what a drop in standard!Colin the 1975 final with the AshbyWilson run off in it well what a line up that was eh! saying that i enjoy watching nearly all the lads who qualified for this years BF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 I eent my my grandad to Swindon v (i think it was Oxford in 1973) I remember him watching and saying what a load of rubbish as first out of the start wins the race. He was not impressed and couldnt understand why anyone would bother to watch it. The racing is just as good now as it was back in the day. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I eent my my grandad to Swindon v (i think it was Oxford in 1973) I remember him watching and saying what a load of rubbish as first out of the start wins the race. He was not impressed and couldnt understand why anyone would bother to watch it. The racing is just as good now as it was back in the day. IMO Not at Poole its not😀 Edited May 18, 2016 by Sidney the robin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Funny that...I just sat in an office painting pretty pictures and counting bricks...didn't get involved in any Structural engineering at all. All these Contractors used to talk to me about developments...in Groundworks, Housing, roadworks...didn't have a clue what they were talking about. Surprised I was employed at all...Walked around with them talking numbers and how things needed to be done with the Contractors and Site Agents and Engineers...didn't have a clue...nadah... Didn't learn a thing in all my 30 years of doing...learnt nothing at Uni, and learnt nothing whilst out on site....Unbelievable... So no 'hands on' engineering design then? Exactly what I was saying. I work alongside all of those folks, but I don't profess to be able to do everything they do. A QS for example does not know anything about engineering design and visa versa so I couldn't knock up a BofQ for a multi million pound contract. They are completely separate disciplines. If you think differently then you're either a genius or living in cloud cuckoo land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 So no 'hands on' engineering design then? Exactly what I was saying. I work alongside all of those folks, but I don't profess to be able to do everything they do. A QS for example does not know anything about engineering design and visa versa so I couldn't knock up a BofQ for a multi million pound contract. They are completely separate disciplines. If you think differently then you're either a genius or living in cloud cuckoo land. A tapered slab of reinforced concrete being put into the different layers of a Speedway track and it's design, is hardly ground breaking is it. Could deal with more difficult situations when constructing roads and motorways. Totally different if it were a highly spec'd building or bridge for example. Having worked as an on site QS for many years, you'll find there are many aspects to being a QS that you obviously don't understand...it's not just counting numbers and dealing with contracts. You have to be able to sit down face to face with engineers and discuss aspects of all builds. If I don't understand what they are talking about, then how does that work? Understanding, stresses, bending moments and numerous other facts when constructing a concrete slab is essential in this type of business. And as an Engineer...yes I would expect you to know how to understand a B of Q's and have a good fist at creating one...it's not that difficult if you know about Construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris4gillian Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 A tapered slab of reinforced concrete being put into the different layers of a Speedway track and it's design, is hardly ground breaking is it. Could deal with more difficult situations when constructing roads and motorways. Totally different if it were a highly spec'd building or bridge for example. Having worked as an on site QS for many years, you'll find there are many aspects to being a QS that you obviously don't understand...it's not just counting numbers and dealing with contracts. You have to be able to sit down face to face with engineers and discuss aspects of all builds. If I don't understand what they are talking about, then how does that work? Understanding, stresses, bending moments and numerous other facts when constructing a concrete slab is essential in this type of business. And as an Engineer...yes I would expect you to know how to understand a B of Q's and have a good fist at creating one...it's not that difficult if you know about Construction. I didn't say I couldn't create a B of Q (Standard Method of Measurement blah, blah, blah) because I often do, I said I couldn't knock one up for a multi million pound project and likewise a QS couldn't design a new structure or highway. That is my point. Different disciplines requiring different qualifications and with completely different industry standards to know etc. etc. Having a basic understanding is not the same so I stand by my initial post. Now please let that be an end to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I didn't say I couldn't create a B of Q (Standard Method of Measurement blah, blah, blah) because I often do, I said I couldn't knock one up for a multi million pound project and likewise a QS couldn't design a new structure or highway. That is my point. Different disciplines requiring different qualifications and with completely different industry standards to know etc. etc. Having a basic understanding is not the same so I stand by my initial post. Now please let that be an end to it. I agree...like I said in my initial post to which you replied... 'Having worked in groundworks and the construction industry in the past...as a Quantity Surveyor and Architectural Tec, I think I'm quiet qualified to have some degree of knowledge on how things can be constructed.' That degree of knowledge is enough to know how to create a concrete slab for a Speedway track....of which we are talking about...not a multi million pound structure. So yes...let that be an end to it. You know your stuff...I know mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler42 Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 My own personal opinion as to when it stopped being as good as it use to be. Was when most of the teams would be made up of guests, R/R. Yes I know back in the day There were guests and R/R, but when the likes of Belle Vue came to Wimbledon, You would know unless injured that P.C Chris Morton Les Collins etc would be riding and The Dons would have the same team as they had the week before and the week before that. Now you have so many riders from the premier league doubling up and that in my opinion is purely down to not having enough top class riders in the Elite league. You could argue and say back then the top riders were not riding Poland Sundays, Sweden Tuesdays and so on. Maybe that is why there is a lack of top riders riding here now. If you take the standard of our league racing today and put it up against 70s and 80s. I think no one who has seen both eras could say today's standard is better. The racing on the other hand is no better or worse than it was then. You still get fantastic racing today as you did then. Just without the crowds! Ironically the sport in my opinion has gone full circle in that, Poland was the poor relation to us, but now sadly it is us. you only have to look at our rider input on the world stage bar Tai Wooffinden. we are no where. Things are starting to look up, with a lot of promising youngsters, but if you let them just stagnate in the lower leagues, then when they come up against the young Polish, Danish and Swedish riders, they will be found wanting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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