Deano Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) I appreciate I won’t change how you feel re the rule and how you feel others portray it but what riders being frozen out as a result of it or forced to retire? Now more than ever is an ideal chance for a rider to gain a team spot in Britain, it’s the reason riders like Konopka, Edberg and Massen have found team spots in recent years. The rule is in place because of a paucity of riders wanting to race in this country and has been extended to help produce more young Brits and give them more chances to improve to increase the churn of riders, it is in place because promotions agree with your sentiment. If the rule was removed/hadn’t been introduced where do your proposed clubs were going to find the 20+ riders who are part of the system and where was the cost going to come from to cover the demand as a result of dwindling riders in this country? Lets go back to the reasons it was first introduced. It was introduced to give a select promising few riders from the Premier League, the opportunity to race against the best in the Elite League. We had plenty of riders to go around, with a few National League riders knocking on the door of the Premier League reserve berths. It's now being used to fill team berths, at the same time still being sold to us as a "development" opportunity. Do the maths, doubling up is everywhere now, riders numbers are reducing. As one retires a current rider doubles up and there is no replacement. Give it another ten years and triple up will be very common. Some were pushing for merging the leagues and going North/South split then a competition to find the winner? How will that work now with riders doubling up across the North and South Leagues. Oh, there is the guest facility... which in itself creates a "conflict of interests" which is another thorn.. "And in goal for England is Hart, very popular with the Man City crowds and also popular with the Birmingham City folks to keep match fit, for development he's signing for non league bla bla....." Edited May 5, 2016 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 No but they are the ones making all the noise. I just think there are far more British riders who want the same number if not more meetings than there are who want less. Being patriotic I side with them. For too long the UK have bent over backwards to accommodate foreigners and we are now seeing the result which is a dearth of up and coming Brits. The tide has to turn. I'm probably in the minority but I'd far rather see a young Brit struggle at the start of a season but make reasonable progression by the end, than a mediocre foreigner who ends the season on the same or lower average. It seems British speedway will still bend over backwards towards helping the average foreigner over a young Brit, I would like to see 4 Brits in every premier league team within 3 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 How can Cook be allowed to double down anyway? Apparently Davey Watt wouldn't be able to (not that he wants to....) because his EL average is too high?? If he can't surely Cook is way too high??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 How can Cook be allowed to double down anyway? Apparently Davey Watt wouldn't be able to (not that he wants to....) because his EL average is too high?? If he can't surely Cook is way too high??? No idea if its right but Cook has a PL average, Watt hasn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Wasn't part of the reason for its introduction the reluctance of PL riders to move up to the EL without the safety net of PL. That problem has now been made much worse by the reduction in EL matches. How many would move up if they had to rely solely on EL matches for their income. As Craig has shown it is not ready to break into the Polish market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Cookie needs to earn money, of course it's OK ..... most sportsmen need to earn money, but will never be convinced by d/u, detest its introduction to a "team sport" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 most sportsmen need to earn money, but will never be convinced by d/u, detest its introduction to a "team sport" But it's two different leagues, two different teams, two different sets of fans ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Surely if riders are not allowed to double up then you run the risk of them not being able to afford to race at all?. In Sweden all their riders are allowed to do it so why shouldn't we allow our riders?. Good luck to Craig who has tried to get rides in Poland & Sweden & it hasn't happened. Maybe if our promotors didn't let useless foreign riders ride in this country we wouldn't have a problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fever Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 No idea if its right but Cook has a PL average, Watt hasn't. Hmm true Its been a while since DW did PL .....but even so it doesn't seem quite right somehow...... maybe next year CC might qualify as a FTR .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 But it's two different leagues, two different teams, two different sets of fans ....... does any "professional sport" have participants in 2 teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) Surely if riders are not allowed to double up then you run the risk of them not being able to afford to race at all?. Yes you are right. The BSPA though may not be doing this for the riders benefit. One rider, riding for two teams previously probably cost the same as 1.5 riders, so a cost saving short term. Long term, you screw the sport of riders filling that second gap to learn a craft, so now you have riders having to ride for more than one team to fill a space promoters can't afford to really fill with a non double upper. That rider retires, two team places gone, maybe no replacement. Like someone else eluded to, create a sporting environment where riders and promoters earn money and people will be knocking on the door wanting to take a piece of it. Edited May 5, 2016 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) does any "professional sport" have participants in 2 teams?You could argue that speedway isn't a professional sport as team managers are part time & some of the riders have day jobs as well. Guess some riders have to do 2 leagues in their own country to make it a full time wage. Edited May 5, 2016 by Crazy robin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 You could argue that speedway isn't a professional sport as team managers are part time & some of the riders have day jobs as well. Guess some riders have to do 2 leagues in their own country to make it a full time wage. yes, I get the riders dilemma, and the shortage of riders, but when you go watch your "team" and you find your star rider missing because he is wearing another race jacket is awful 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 You could argue that speedway isn't a professional sport as team managers are part time & some of the riders have day jobs as well. Guess some riders have to do 2 leagues in their own country to make it a full time wage. Yes exactly. One of the root causes being costs, exacerbated by doubling up, guesting, watering down etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 yes, I get the riders dilemma, and the shortage of riders, but when you go watch your "team" and you find your star rider missing because he is wearing another race jacket is awful Fair comments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 Hmm true Its been a while since DW did PL .....but even so it doesn't seem quite right somehow...... maybe next year CC might qualify as a FTR .... It's all above board SF. Cook had an average from 2015 which allows him to ride PL. Rider's with PL averages can miss a complete season (2015 - 2017) and drop back down and it's only right that safety net is there. Especially for British rider's. Just can't make it pay with EL alone and with Poland refusing to give him any rides he's fallen back on the PL. Absolutely not problem with that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 How can Cook be allowed to double down anyway? Apparently Davey Watt wouldn't be able to (not that he wants to....) because his EL average is too high?? If he can't surely Cook is way too high??? Cook is British so it's right he is allowed to get more rides in his own country, rather a Brit than a foreigner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 How can Cook be allowed to double down anyway? Apparently Davey Watt wouldn't be able to (not that he wants to....) because his EL average is too high?? If he can't surely Cook is way too high??? Watt is an EL rider whilst Cook has been a double upper till this season. I've no issue ensuring British riders get rides in both leagues, that's the least we should be doing to help any home rider. As for Watt, he might want to drop down (I don't know if true) to earn more money or because his EL days are over (it's only his 'personal issues' that appear to be affecting him not his ability to mix it in the EL) however the rules don't allow him too. I wouldn't like the rules altered that help none British riders however as that would be plain crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 does any "professional sport" have participants in 2 teams?This is speedway, different to any other sport. I dare say if riders were earning millions racing for one team they would stick to one but they're not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted May 6, 2016 Report Share Posted May 6, 2016 BSPA have blocked Cook`s move to Peterborough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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