Lakeside V Belle Vue - 4 May - Sky Match

[waiheke1]

Of course we want good racing. And as the majority who post on here are the "die hards" probably the number one concern of people on here.

But, in terms of things which attract a good size crowds, it's well below things like marketing, atmosphere and a successful team.

My point is that those argue that all that is needed to fix speedways problems is to ensure good racing are incorrect - that good racing on its own wont bring crowds back.

[Stoke Potter]

 

We watch 2 good races out of 15 and we use that as justification of spending £17-£18 a week.

WHAT ARE WE DOING & WHY ARE WE PUTTING UP WITH THIS!!!!!!

Absolutely nailed it!

Disagree, if the track prep isn't good racing will be poor.

Best racetracks IMHO Peterborough, Scunthorpe, Somerset, Wolves.

Well prepared tracks the biggest reason.

You're missing my point.

Making everything else equal, and doing a comparison of the racing on the best big track and the racing on the best small track, the spectacle on the big track will always be better.

[stevebrum]

Absolutely nailed it!

You're missing my point.

Making everything else equal, and doing a comparison of the racing on the best big track and the racing on the best small track, the spectacle on the big track will always be better.

Don't really think I was missing your point however if you equal things up I've seen equally as good racing at Monmore as I've seen at any track in the country so I have to disagree with you on that point.

[Stoke Potter]

Don't really think I was missing your point however if you equal things up I've seen equally as good racing at Monmore as I've seen at any track in the country so I have to disagree with you on that point.

And still you miss the point.

[TonyE]

The point being that some differ with your opinion!

[Stoke Potter]

Wolves is better than Torun is it? Course it is!

[stevebrum]

And still you miss the point.

 

you said levelling all things up (assuming all tracks are equal, preparation wise I assume not to mention stadium upgrades ) that the spectacle will always be better on a bigger track.

Have I got it? I assumed I had all along.

I'm not asking you to agree with me as your agreement isn't required.

I'm just stating a fact that I have seen as good a racing at Monmore as I've seen anywhere.

And if I had to pick watching racing at only one track I'd pick Wolves every time.

 

Wolves is better than Torun is it? Course it is!

Who mentioned only one track as an example ? Just you of course.

The Polish tracks are some of the best in the world yet I have watched some live streamed meetings from Poland that lack the 'spectacle' you claim comes with every big track.

You argument started realistically but you have now turned it into a farce with this silly comparison.

Torun is a wonderful stadium and track but as I live in England it isn't an option for me to watch matches live there on a weekly basis.

As you previously stated if all things were equal then Monmore would have an equally as good stadium as Torun so I think I'd be more than happy with that.

No doubt I still haven't 'got it' because my answer is different to yours.

[Stoke Potter]

No you haven't got it actually. For the purposes of this mini discussion the stadium facilities are irrelevant. If you wish to throw them into the mix however, Torun beats Wolves again, shocker.

No, not every big track is great and not every meeting at the best big tracks is great. But if you want the best racing spectacle the sport can offer that comes with the best big tracks.

Yes, it's my opinion, that's the point of a forum.

I'm utterly confused as to why the Belle Vue promotion didn't copy the Lakeside and Wolves' track dimensions. Maybe it's because it's generally accepted that there is far better..?

[stevebrum]

No you haven't got it actually. For the purposes of this mini discussion the stadium facilities are irrelevant. If you wish to throw them into the mix however, Torun beats Wolves again, shocker.

No, not every big track is great and not every meeting at the best big tracks is great. But if you want the best racing spectacle the sport can offer that comes with the best big tracks.

Yes, it's my opinion, that's the point of a forum.

I'm utterly confused as to why the Belle Vue promotion didn't copy the Lakeside and Wolves' track dimensions. Maybe it's because it's generally accepted that there is far better..?

What I have got is that you consider in general that bigger tracks offer a better racing spectacle.

I didn't say I completely disagree with that . However I maintain that so long as track prep is paramount then racing is likely to be as good as at any track.

And I still maintain I'd pick watch racing at Monmore over every track.

 

Good that you mention the new Belle Vue track as an example as to why it's better than the Wolves track already - that's the track that they can't get fit to race on yea??

 

Shame, you were doing so well until that last ridiculous claim.

(Perhaps when the track has had a couple of years racing on I might take it seriously before you make another claim like that)

[TonyE]

No you haven't got it actually. For the purposes of this mini discussion the stadium facilities are irrelevant. If you wish to throw them into the mix however, Torun beats Wolves again, shocker.

No, not every big track is great and not every meeting at the best big tracks is great. But if you want the best racing spectacle the sport can offer that comes with the best big tracks.

Yes, it's my opinion, that's the point of a forum.

I'm utterly confused as to why the Belle Vue promotion didn't copy the Lakeside and Wolves' track dimensions. Maybe it's because it's generally accepted that there is far better..?

Those two tracks, as indeed are many others, are limited by their physical location i.e. inside another racing circuit. Given a blank canvas, it is most likely both promotions would opt for a bigger racing circuit but, at the moment at least, it is work with what you have or have nothing at all.

 

You have already expressed your views on the Lakeside track based on Wednesday's TV meeting which, if you had paid attention, included Andreas Jonsson saying the track was nothing like it usually is. I have seen duff meetings at tracks of varying sizes and many an excellent meeting at Arena Essex.

 

PS I have been to Stoke and it was memorable for there being no track grading or rakers for the entire 15 heats!

[E I Addio]

 

You have already expressed your views on the Lakeside track based on Wednesday's TV meeting which, if you had paid attention, included Andreas Jonsson saying the track was nothing like it usually is. I have seen duff meetings at tracks of varying sizes and many an excellent meeting at Arena Essex.

 

o:

Exactly. Kelvin said at the fans forum in Feb that he wanted the knew how he wanted the track prepared and wanted it the same way every week as far as possible because one of the keys to success is that the home riders know exactly how to ride it week in week out. We have had some good meetings this year in which some respected independent posters like Halifaxtiger have praised the track and the racing. Unfortunately Sky turn up and everything has to fit in with their schedule and everything changes . Then we get the keyboard warriors on the scene with the "my tracks better than your track " jibes.

 

I still can't get my mind round the fact that some people moan about it even after two heats in one case, but still sit there watching it. Nobody forces them to watch if they don't like it. Maybe it just not as bad as they like to pretend.

[NickRushbrook]

Lakeside's a trick track don't you know??

 

Well, it is when someone's team gets soundly beaten at 'fortress arena' anyway!

 

That's what I call pathetic!

[Stoke Potter]

Good that you mention the new Belle Vue track as an example as to why it's better than the Wolves track already - that's the track that they can't get fit to race on yea??

 

Shame, you were doing so well until that last ridiculous claim.

(Perhaps when the track has had a couple of years racing on I might take it seriously before you make another claim like that)

Entirely predictable cheap shot regarding the surface and totally irrelevant to the discussion on track size.

No doubt there will be plenty of jealously emanating from wolves (and others) when the BV circuit is up and running!

 

Those two tracks, as indeed are many others, are limited by their physical location i.e. inside another racing circuit. Given a blank canvas, it is most likely both promotions would opt for a bigger racing circuit but, at the moment at least, it is work with what you have or have nothing at all.

 

You have already expressed your views on the Lakeside track based on Wednesday's TV meeting which, if you had paid attention, included Andreas Jonsson saying the track was nothing like it usually is. I have seen duff meetings at tracks of varying sizes and many an excellent meeting at Arena Essex.

 

PS I have been to Stoke and it was memorable for there being no track grading or rakers for the entire 15 heats!

Now you're getting to the point. The majority of British tracks are shoe-horned into places they don't really fit and so aren't conducive to good racing.

It's not the first time I've seen Lakeside on the TV, I wasn't impressed on the previous occasions either but this week's was probably the worst.

Finally, you won't find me defending the Stoke track, it's pretty poor in my opinion which is a shame as in the past it has been very good.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Stoke Potter

[stevebrum]

Entirely predictable cheap shot regarding the surface and totally irrelevant to the discussion on track size.

No doubt there will be plenty of jealously emanating from wolves (and others) when the BV circuit is up and running!

 

 

It's a joke surely comparing any track of size that hasn't yet had a meeting run on. I'm looking forward to visiting and taking pride in a national stadium tho.

There is no need for jealousy when you have a race track that probably gives better entertainment than most in the UK so if there is any cheap shot it's your last sentence.

[TonyE]

Entirely predictable cheap shot regarding the surface and totally irrelevant to the discussion on track size.

No doubt there will be plenty of jealously emanating from wolves (and others) when the BV circuit is up and running!

 

Now you're getting to the point. The majority of British tracks are shoe-horned into places they don't really fit and so aren't conducive to good racing.

It's not the first time I've seen Lakeside on the TV, I wasn't impressed on the previous occasions either but this week's was probably the worst.

Finally, you won't find me defending the Stoke track, it's pretty poor in my opinion which is a shame as in the past it has been very good.

That is your problem if you have only ever watched Lakeside on TV - TV means Sky means track preparation interference and, usually, an uninspiring ( compared to the norm), racing surface.

 

In the opinion of many other posters on this thread, they quite enjoyed the experience notwithstanding Mr Russell's antics with the surface.

 

You have made your point - no need to dig any deeper!

[Stoke Potter]

That is your problem if you have only ever watched Lakeside on TV - TV means Sky means track preparation interference and, usually, an uninspiring ( compared to the norm), racing surface.

 

In the opinion of many other posters on this thread, they quite enjoyed the experience notwithstanding Mr Russell's antics with the surface.

 

You have made your point - no need to dig any deeper!

Of course, silly me, it's only crap when Sky are present! The very time when you want it at the absolute best.

And I'll comment when I see fit, thanks all the same, not when you tell when I can.

[The Voice Of Reason]

Wolves is better than Torun is it? Course it is!

Yeah, but I bet they ain't got a shroud.

[TonyE]

Of course, silly me, it's only crap when Sky are present! The very time when you want it at the absolute best.

And I'll comment when I see fit, thanks all the same, not when you tell when I can.

Absolutely true - cannot argue with that. Perhaps you could lobby Sky re not interfering with normal track preparation.

[Aces51]

Wolverhampton usually does produce good racing, although it seems to me that it has not been as good the last couple of years. I have not been to Lakeside but have seen some decent matches from there on TV and read good reports about other meetings from people I respect. However, in my opinion a good big track produces a better overall racing spectacle than a good small track.

 

Having been brought up at Hyde Road, like any track it had poor meetings with processional racing but the overall standard was arguably the best I've seen. Kirkmanshulme Lane was capable of producing good racing and the standard the last few years wasn't bad. However, the point being made is that given the opportunity a big track is the way to go. Having now had the opportunity to watch the racing at the NSS last night highlighted what I have been missing since the demise of Hyde Road. It's early days and it will take time for riders to discover and learn all of the racing lines but I am convinced that the promotion made the right decision in going for a big track.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Aces51

[marko]

There is no scientific proof that a big track will always produce better racing than a small one, it is purely down to personal opinions and preferences, for example for me it's not about the size but about the shape and how it rides, Somerset and Peterborough for example ride much faster than their actual size, tons of speed generated and a fair amount of room to manoeuvre, that is more important, if I could change Lakesides track to a copy of any other than Somerset and Peterboroughs would be up their, but also the German track Gustrow which I think is a cracker but not what you would class as a traditionally big.

 

What I will say though whilst a faster track will produce overtaking at higher speeds those higher speeds could also lead to races being more strung out because of the increased differential between the riders/bikes where as on a small track everything is scaled down meaning it's closer but also slower.