sparkafag Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Sad but very true. The worry is "will things improve?" or "will they get worse?" It is just a speedway crowd there is far more in life worth worrying about it. Should just accept speedway attendances for what they are and have been for a while now, doubt they are going to change massively either way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) I disagree. Factually, yes, club's promotions can charge £1,500 for admission and £250 for a portion of chips, but I'm referring to the bigger picture; reality. Your comments regarding the 40% increase are put into perspective by the fact that, via the current costing structure, the necessary numbers aren't coming through the gates. It's adapt or die. A quick Google search shows that Halifax Town have a smaller average attendance than most clubs in their league, plus a number of clubs in the lower leagues of Scotland. A horrific example to support your point; it simply emphasises mine. What you propose is a huge financial gamble (and I think you know that) at absolutely no risk to yourself. Very easy to make suggestions and come up with bright ideas when you won't be the one on the wrong end of it if it goes pear shaped. To be fair, you're anything but the first to do so. At Mildenhall, we once had someone who 'guaranteed' that gates would go up if advertising was done properly. I suggested that he pay for it - after all, he couldn't lose - and would then approach the promotion so that he could have a share in the increased revenue. Needless to say, he didn't want to know. Cutting prices has been tried many times. I think SCB quoted Belle Vue doing it a few years ago in that they cut the prices for one meeting and got a bigger crowd in. The next week they did it again and the usual number turned up, resulting in a substantial loss. I know John Anderson did it at Berwick a couple of times; the fact that he doesn't any more speaks volumes. The simple truth is there is absolutely no certainty - indeed, evidence suggests otherwise - that a substantial reduction in entry prices will result in clubs becoming more viable. One last thing : cost is anything but the only factor when considering the level of attendances. Isle of Wight charge £11, Birmingham £13. Of the meetings I saw at those two tracks, Birmingham's gate was at least 3 times that of Isle of Wight. Edited May 2, 2016 by Halifaxtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 What you propose is a huge financial gamble (and I think you know that) at absolutely no risk to yourself. Very easy to make suggestions and come up with bright ideas when you won't be the one on the wrong end of it if it goes pear shaped. To be fair, you're anything but the first to do so. At Mildenhall, we once had someone who 'guaranteed' that gates would go up if advertising was done properly. I suggested that he pay for it - after all, he couldn't lose - and would then approach the promotion so that he could have a share in the increased revenue. Needless to say, he didn't want to know. Cutting prices has been tried many times. I think SCB quoted Belle Vue doing it a few years ago in that they cut the prices for one meeting and got a bigger crowd in. The next week they did it again and the usual number turned up, resulting in a substantial loss. I know John Anderson did it at Berwick a couple of times; the fact that he doesn't any more speaks volumes. The simple truth is there is absolutely no certainty - indeed, evidence suggests otherwise - that a substantial reduction in entry prices will result in clubs becoming more viable. One last thing : cost is anything but the only factor when considering the level of attendances. Isle of Wight charge £11, Birmingham £13. Of the meetings I saw at those two tracks, Birmingham's gate was 3 times that of Isle of Wight. Agree. Many years ago, in either Nottingham to Leicester, the public transport halved the price in an attempt to get more people to use the busses. The numbers returned to normal after a little while and the initiative was scrapped. Remember for it to work you needed double the bus users/attendees just to stand still, which is a risk nobody in business would consider. It is just myths proposed by others who don't know business, and certainly not being the ones that take the risk of those panaceas of success. In addition to the examples that you quote, remember that Lakeside did a 'free' meeting and got something like a 4000 crowd, but the next week the usual numbers turned up to pay the regular price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Agree. Many years ago, in either Nottingham to Leicester, the public transport halved the price in an attempt to get more people to use the busses. The numbers returned to normal after a little while and the initiative was scrapped. Remember for it to work you needed double the bus users/attendees just to stand still, which is a risk nobody in business would consider. It is just myths proposed by others who don't know business, and certainly not being the ones that take the risk of those panaceas of success. In addition to the examples that you quote, remember that Lakeside did a 'free' meeting and got something like a 4000 crowd, but the next week the usual numbers turned up to pay the regular price. Lakeside did a £10 meeting last year but still had to get a sponsor to underwrite the loss. Conversely there was a particularly good TV meeting 2 or 3 years ago, I think it was Wolves v. Poole, at a time when the Turbo Twins were at their most spectacular, and I was reliably informed that at Lakeside the following Friday there were an exceptional number of enquirers from newbies who had watched the TV broadcast and wanted to give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I like the 'open day' idea that Güstrow do.A day for the kids really with face painting,bouncy castle etc,but also junior speedway and for anyone in the crowd a chance to do a bit of cycle speedway.The pits are also open for evyrone to have a look at how the youngsters and their fathers/mothers are going about setting up the bikes.A look behind the scenes as it were,and it is free to get in Does it help with the crowds?I can't say,but as it has been going on for a number of years,i guess the club thinks it worthwhile.At least it helps attract a few youngsters to the sport and gets the club out into the community http://www.speedevent.de/mcg/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotonian Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I think the smallest crowd that I have encountered for a speedway meeting was at Aldershot in 1956 - that gate was quoted to me by the then speedway manager as being 482 paying customers. Are you sure?. Aldershot weren't even running in 1956! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Lakeside did a £10 meeting last year but still had to get a sponsor to underwrite the loss. Conversely there was a particularly good TV meeting 2 or 3 years ago, I think it was Wolves v. Poole, at a time when the Turbo Twins were at their most spectacular, and I was reliably informed that at Lakeside the following Friday there were an exceptional number of enquirers from newbies who had watched the TV broadcast and wanted to give it a go. The free meeting at Lakeside has been reported on here many times. Exceptional crowd for the free meeting, and vitually nil increase afterwards. I don't think it was televised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) I think the smallest crowd that I have encountered for a speedway meeting was at Aldershot in 1956 - that gate was quoted to me by the then speedway manager as being 482 paying customers. Are you sure?. Aldershot weren't even running in 1956! You are correct Sotonian. It was the 1957 season. Edited May 2, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Is £17 for speedway expensive. For me it is because I don't believe I'm getting value for money. If the racing was better £17 would be a bargain. It all comes down to VFM. The biggest thing for me is that all kids under high school age should be free. First year of high school to 21 should be £5. Full time students over 21 £10 That could make a difference to swelling the attendance but not necessarily clubs income 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Don't know what people are saying about low crowds. Belle Vue are currently averaging 6,000. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 The 'free'/£10 meetings should be the 'loss leader' for the many who don't know what the sport is or have drifted away... When they are there that is the time to get mobile numbers, email addresses, give away car stickers, face painting/photos with riders for the kids etc etc to target their return... Unfortunately, it seems very little pro active marketing is done at these events and I would suggest circa £18 entrance fees won't entice too many back.... So why is admission so high for a tiny minority sport? An example is my club who allegedly pay £3k to a rider which means a £6k bill for both the home and away meetings against any team.... I would suggest that their crowds over the past three years have been around 1000 paying adults a week with an average admission of £17... Not paying just that one rider would mean they could cut admission by £6 and still maintain their income/outgoing ratio... I would suggest an £11 admission would attract more of the 'ex fans', occasional fans and potential newbies than £17...? An increase of just a couple of hundred a week would put £40k or so into the business over a season... Maybe six man teams with the high earners going for a while until Speedway sorts itself out is the short term solution to facilitate a longer term strategy? Giving the Promoters less costs to invest more in the local and national marketing..? As many have said ad nauseam on here, the best meetings we remember were the ones where a big crowd generated the atmosphere. The racing at these events then take on a mythology all of its own regardless of whether it was actually any good or not... Speedway somehow needs to find that price point that generates that crowd level that will deliver that atmosphere consistently... Currently it seems a long way off and sadly, if the last ten to fifteen years or so are a barometer, devoid of ideas in how to do it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 good point, i go for a meal / cruise/ etc, i then get bombarded with emails from them!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 The 'free'/£10 meetings should be the 'loss leader' for the many who don't know what the sport is or have drifted away... When they are there that is the time to get mobile numbers, email addresses, give away car stickers, face painting/photos with riders for the kids etc etc to target their return... Unfortunately, it seems very little pro active marketing is done at these events and I would suggest circa £18 entrance fees won't entice too many back.... So why is admission so high for a tiny minority sport? An example is my club who allegedly pay £3k to a rider which means a £6k bill for both the home and away meetings against any team.... I would suggest that their crowds over the past three years have been around 1000 paying adults a week with an average admission of £17... Not paying just that one rider would mean they could cut admission by £6 and still maintain their income/outgoing ratio... I would suggest an £11 admission would attract more of the 'ex fans', occasional fans and potential newbies than £17...? An increase of just a couple of hundred a week would put £40k or so into the business over a season... Maybe six man teams with the high earners going for a while until Speedway sorts itself out is the short term solution to facilitate a longer term strategy? Giving the Promoters less costs to invest more in the local and national marketing..? As many have said ad nauseam on here, the best meetings we remember were the ones where a big crowd generated the atmosphere. The racing at these events then take on a mythology all of its own regardless of whether it was actually any good or not... Speedway somehow needs to find that price point that generates that crowd level that will deliver that atmosphere consistently... Currently it seems a long way off and sadly, if the last ten to fifteen years or so are a barometer, devoid of ideas in how to do it.... This is among the most constructive Posts I have seen on the BSF mikebv. It should stimulate some excellent debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) G The 'free'/£10 meetings should be the 'loss leader' for the many who don't know what the sport is or have drifted away... When they are there that is the time to get mobile numbers, email addresses, give away car stickers, face painting/photos with riders for the kids etc etc to target their return... Unfortunately, it seems very little pro active marketing is done at these events and I would suggest circa £18 entrance fees won't entice too many back.... So why is admission so high for a tiny minority sport? An example is my club who allegedly pay £3k to a rider which means a £6k bill for both the home and away meetings against any team.... I would suggest that their crowds over the past three years have been around 1000 paying adults a week with an average admission of £17... Not paying just that one rider would mean they could cut admission by £6 and still maintain their income/outgoing ratio... I would suggest an £11 admission would attract more of the 'ex fans', occasional fans and potential newbies than £17...? An increase of just a couple of hundred a week would put £40k or so into the business over a season... Maybe six man teams with the high earners going for a while until Speedway sorts itself out is the short term solution to facilitate a longer term strategy? Giving the Promoters less costs to invest more in the local and national marketing..? As many have said ad nauseam on here, the best meetings we remember were the ones where a big crowd generated the atmosphere. The racing at these events then take on a mythology all of its own regardless of whether it was actually any good or not... Speedway somehow needs to find that price point that generates that crowd level that will deliver that atmosphere consistently... Currently it seems a long way off and sadly, if the last ten to fifteen years or so are a barometer, devoid of ideas in how to do it.... I agree with a lot of your points but for me sadly the sport is just in to much of mess to be taken seriously as a National competition nowadays and is just 4guys doing 4 laps and a lot of fans just take it or leave,if somethings else pops up.Personaly a few years ago my social life revolved round the sport not now though.Its just not credible to me . Edited May 2, 2016 by Fromafar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Big crowd at Wolves tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 Big crowd at Wolves tonight. And a very happy one for some odd reason..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 A "BIG" crowd at wolves is misleading, they are all crammed into the very short start/finish straight.. That area looks rammed with 500 in it.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 A "BIG" crowd at wolves is misleading, they are all crammed into the very short start/finish straight.. That area looks rammed with 500 in it.... The car parks were almost full just after 6.30 p.m, nearly an hour before the start, with at least 200 queuing at the turnstiles and more than that number already in the stadium. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) You can always tell the size of the crowd at Wolves by the amount of cars parked outside the stadium car park. Last night was the largest Elite league crowd we have had for a few years.Shame they did not get racing worthy of it Edited May 3, 2016 by New Science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 You can always tell the size of the crowd at Wolves by the amount of cars parked outside the stadium car park. Last night was the largest Elite league crowd we have had for a few years.Shame they did not get racing worthy of it So how many (is a decent crowd) at Monmore Green now.......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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