Notenoughnerve Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Looking on the telly, that didnt look a viable turn out for Lakeside..A few hundred at best. Was that just because of TV coverage or is that the norm this year? Edited June 2, 2016 by Notenoughnerve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Alarmingly large crowd at swindon last night! Great atmosphere. I bet the atmosphere wasn't so great tonight. Edited June 3, 2016 by Gemini 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 British Speedway is uniquely different to the continental model and is fundamentally an on terrace spectator sport having a coffee and a burger or better still a pint if your not driving. Our model is not comfortable with TV and the razzematazz of the Slovenian GP. To make matters worse there are too many rules and regulations which need simplifying and relaxing while ensuring the safety of rider and spectators alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Looking on the telly, that didnt look a viable turn out for Lakeside..A few hundred at best. Was that just because of TV coverage or is that the norm this year? It's always like that on the telly but one local on here claims their crowds are always down for televised meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 I bet the atmosphere was n't so great tonight. I bet it wasnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I think everyone has missed the point here. Speedway is not a charity and the figure do not add up what comes in does not cover the costs. It's no point living in the past Speedway has to change. I'm looking to put money into a future venture but in it's present form the Bank Manager and my wife would have a seizure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) I think everyone has missed the point here. Speedway is not a charity and the figure do not add up what comes in does not cover the costs. It's no point living in the past Speedway has to change. I'm looking to put money into a future venture but in it's present form the Bank Manager and my wife would have a seizure. Does anyone know how many promotors/owners have their Speedway Club as their sole business? Are there any? Do they want their Clubs to run at a profit? Or do they want to run them at a loss for 'Buisness' reasons? Edited June 8, 2016 by Gresham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 It makes no sense to run a business in an unprofitable manner simply for tax reasons. I don't let understand why people suggest this. You are better off making a profit and paying tax than losing money and having a tax credit. I doubt there are too many ways you can artificially transfer costs from other businesses into the speedway venture to gain a material tax advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex2000 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 It can't be because Euro 2016 as England don't even feature on a Wednesday What difference does that make? We already know England are pretty much back on the plane home. I'm supporting Ireland lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 It makes no sense to run a business in an unprofitable manner simply for tax reasons. I don't let understand why people suggest this. You are better off making a profit and paying tax than losing money and having a tax credit. I doubt there are too many ways you can artificially transfer costs from other businesses into the speedway venture to gain a material tax advantage. It may make no sense, but people still do it....especially in Sport. Plus, it depends whether you want to tie your money up in fixed assets or not, and spread costs etc. How many speedway tracks do you think run at a profit? And if they don't, as a businessman, why run one? It's like advertising and sponsoring...do you think these businesses recoup their money from sales generated by sponsoring a speedway team? There are numerous reasons why people run businesses at profit and loss...and many reasons why people sponsor and advertise...and it's often not to make profit, but to cut losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 As one promoter said to me when contemplating another heavy loss for the year, "Well it's either this or a new car". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Realisticly if a track can turn in an operating profit gross then you can invest in the facilities and look to the future, running training schools and possibly supplying machines for budding riders. The consequence would be less dependency on foreign riders. Oh well I can dream. Running a track as a money making venture is never going to be possible but operating at a profit covering the loans and investing in the future then becomes a viable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 It may make no sense, but people still do it....especially in Sport. Plus, it depends whether you want to tie your money up in fixed assets or not, and spread costs etc. How many speedway tracks do you think run at a profit? And if they don't, as a businessman, why run one? It's like advertising and sponsoring...do you think these businesses recoup their money from sales generated by sponsoring a speedway team? There are numerous reasons why people run businesses at profit and loss...and many reasons why people sponsor and advertise...and it's often not to make profit, but to cut losses. I would also imagine having the riders as 'assets' with some value added to them will also provide leverage to the 'parent company' when negotiating money from lenders...? Possibly why the asset system is still in place..? Not sure any bank manager would know a speedway riders market value so presume some 'licence' is there in any riders valuation.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I can't imagine any bank manager would take any value for rider assets into account 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I can't imagine any bank manager would take any value for rider assets into account They are not an asset, they could retire, get injured or go off and ride abroad instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) They are not an asset, they could retire, get injured or go off and ride abroad instantly. In the book 'Tragedy - Kenny Carter' Eric Boothroyd (one time Halifax & Bradford Promoter) is quoted as agreeing to pay Kenny a big five-figure upfront sum before the 1984 season but when Carter broke his leg it backfired on the club financially as he never rode for Halifax again that season. They had to resort to using guests to replace him but had already paid thousands to Carter in the form of a big advance. In fact during both 1984 and 1985 Halifax suffered due to the injuries picked up by Carter. John Berry, amongst others, would talk about clubs now being run by speedway fans and/or enthusiasts with money to burn rather than the old days when professional promoters ran clubs for a living...often running more than one track. Allied Presentations, for example, that included a consortium of Reg Fearman, Len Silver, Danny Dunton, Maurice Littlechild and, I think, Ron Wilson as members who despite running their own tracks had a say in the other tracks within the group before eventually going their separate ways. Edited June 9, 2016 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I would also imagine having the riders as 'assets' with some value added to them will also provide leverage to the 'parent company' when negotiating money from lenders...? Possibly why the asset system is still in place..? Not sure any bank manager would know a speedway riders market value so presume some 'licence' is there in any riders valuation.. All depends on any contract agreed and the duration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Even if it was a five year contract, I doubt any bank manager would include it as an asset. Would the contract stand up in a law court - doubt it. If the rider chose not to ride for the club but in Poland instead could the club stop him - no way. Is there an active market in which the club could reasonably expect to recoup their outlay - not really. Look at how many "assets" Poole have that are not racing in the UK. Would anyone really say those assets have a tangible value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Even if it was a five year contract, I doubt any bank manager would include it as an asset. Would the contract stand up in a law court - doubt it. If the rider chose not to ride for the club but in Poland instead could the club stop him - no way. Is there an active market in which the club could reasonably expect to recoup their outlay - not really. Look at how many "assets" Poole have that are not racing in the UK. Would anyone really say those assets have a tangible value. So you think a Bank manager would ignore any contracts you have with rider, and your legal obligations written into that contract? Contracts are all individual and can be complex, especially if the rider is a non resident. But if you think a bank manager/ financial advisor, would not take into consideration any riders contract, or any other physical assets, that could lead to either a profit or a loss, then I think said bank manager should find another job. Plus it seems you are looking at an 'asset' as purely leading to profit. Most eventually lead to a loss through depreciation. Doubting one thing and actually knowing is a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I do financial review of around 1.5 billion euros of projects a year. If one of our structured finance team tried to tell me a customer had a solid balance sheet on the basis of treating as "assets" a contracts with self employed individual who were not exclusively bound to work for that entity, had no legally enforceable break clauses and the contracts has "minimal" liquid value - I would politely suggest that their manager finds someone else to do reviews for me in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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