Alarmingly Low Crowds

[New Science]

At a guess about 1200

Edited May 3, 2016 by New Science

[LunnasPerm]

Do speedway clubs reveal attendances? It would be an interesting read.

 

I remember reading that Plymouth were going under because they had 400 turning-up every week.

[Shale Searcher]

I can't ever remember any figures for domestic meetings, Cardiff always give a figure for British GP...

[Odds On]

New Science, on 03 May 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

At a guess about 1200

 

on those figures then the promoter would of lost money I would guess.

[poole keith]

reveal attendances steady up there you might end up having to pay taxes

[daveallan81]

Promoters only release attendance figures when they're looking for more money.

[George Dodds]

reveal attendances steady up there you might end up having to pay taxes

So you believe that HMRC bases its VAT demands from promotions on what they read on forums and in newspapers rather than demand a blizzard of paperwork and audited revenue returns?

Only football publishes attendances as a matter of course and that is because national newspapers demand them .. but don't let that spoil your little conspiracy theory.

[Gresham]

So you believe that HMRC bases its VAT demands from promotions on what they read on forums and in newspapers rather than demand a blizzard of paperwork and audited revenue returns?

Only football publishes attendances as a matter of course and that is because national newspapers demand them .. but don't let that spoil your little conspiracy theory.

Wasn't one of the reasons for making ticketing electronic on the gate at football, because it was too easy to 'lose' actual money when it was passing hands?

 

Not saying that's the case in Speedway...but when so much cash is being paid over the turnstile, you could understand people thinking otherwise.

 

As for attendances...I'm sure the attendances were often revealed in local paper reports back in the 70's and 80's.

[iris123]

 

Only football publishes attendances as a matter of course and that is because national newspapers demand them .. but don't let that spoil your little conspiracy theory.

Not sure that is true.Lowly Ice Hockey also seems to announce attendances around Europe including the UK league

 

 

In attendance, the EIHL ranks 8th among the European top leagues with an 2,719 average. Three teams are among the top 100 of the continent, 2016 challenge cup champions Nottingham Panthers at 40th (5,713 average), 2012 league champions Belfast Giants at 80th (4,544) and 2016 league champions Sheffield Steelers at 83rd (4,489

[Tsunami]

So you believe that HMRC bases its VAT demands from promotions on what they read on forums and in newspapers rather than demand a blizzard of paperwork and audited revenue returns?

Only football publishes attendances as a matter of course and that is because national newspapers demand them .. but don't let that spoil your little conspiracy theory.

Quite agree. We have heard of HMRC staff standing outside the stadium with a view of assessing the gates.

With stadia that say has dogs, most of the turnstiles have a clicker mechanism with a counter built in. This allows correlation of the number for both sports, in case one is understating its number of attending public. For the promotions of course, it gives a check on the monies taken, by multiplying the admission price times by the number of clicks. Any shortage can be investigated straight away.

[ColinMills]

not all promotions use the turnstiles!

[George Dodds]

Wasn't one of the reasons for making ticketing electronic on the gate at football, because it was too easy to 'lose' actual money when it was passing hands?

 

Not saying that's the case in Speedway...but when so much cash is being paid over the turnstile, you could understand people thinking otherwise.

 

As for attendances...I'm sure the attendances were often revealed in local paper reports back in the 70's and 80's.

Might have been a minor one but I'm fairly certain that in the wake of the Hillsborough disaster it became demanded practice that police and match controllers knew exactly how many people had passed through the turnstiles into each section of a ground.

I think whether attendances were printed or not depended on the value attached to them by individual papers. Up until the 1960s many Lancashire newspapers not only published attendances for league cricket matches but the actual gate receipts in pounds/shillings and pence!

[salty]

Pretty sure Ipswich used to put their attendances on their website a few years ago, though if memory serves, they were always suspiciously rounded numbers - so they might have been less than official.

[Tsunami]

not all promotions use the turnstiles!

But a lot have to Colin. Either to give to the stadia owners or satisfy conditions laid down by the accountants. As i said earlier, It is great security to be able to identify shortages in the gate money. Something that would have been useful to Tim Stone at Newport, if you can recall his problems.

[arnieg]

Another new factor is money laundering. There have been several examples of football clubs being used for money laundering (most recently Blackpool), and electronic ticketing is one of the processes put in place to demonstrate compliance with the legislation.

 

BTW I once acted for a speedway promotion that was subject to an Inland Revenue investigation - the questions seemed endless.

[Daniel Smith]

Some very valid points...

 

I'm not really interested in seeing the GP type riders...So I'm quiet happy watching Premier league standard.

 

I'd be quiet happy if we went back to a time where Speedway riders in this country saw riding a bike as their second job.

 

A team of 7 riders and juniors/reserves that were contracted and paid to only race for one side.

 

I'd reintroduce a Northern and Southern League.

 

Bring costs down, by somehow only allowing standard off the shelf sealed engines, put into riders own rolling chassis.

 

I'd be quiet happy for Speedway to go part time for the riders.

 

I really don't care if a rider can be 3 seconds quicker, it only means he has to spend a fortune on services and tuning etc.

 

I'd personally be very happy to see riders who only race for my club...it then feels like a club and someone you can support and follow.

 

As for money...clubs shouldn't be allowed to fall into debt.

 

After costs of running the meeting...the gate receipts should be divided between the riders. Very Simple.

 

If it means the speedway rider I watch is a Postman or similar during the day, and he see's Speedway as a paid hobby, then it's fine by me.

 

Crowds dictate what type of Profession this sport has become. To me it shouts semi professional.

Whilst i appreciate what you say in riders having speedway as a second job would this then not create an even bigger problem of rider availability?

 

Businesses are very different & demanding these days of employee's time. 9-5 jobs that you can leave early to race bikes 4 hours away will be extremely difficult to achieve

I have similar thoughts on a lot of your points,unfortunately we all know it is never going to happen.

Correct, in the 21st century it just isn't possible to go backwards

Edited May 4, 2016 by Danny Smith

[Vincent Vega]

Lakeside tonight Heat 3 all 4 riders back. For the rerun the riders should be back at the tapes within 2 mins. No they are sitting outside the pit gate then Sky go for an ad break unbelievable!! Can you imagine new people going tonight having to wait around for the race to start they wont be coming back again!!

 

For re-runs on the first bend the riders take the piss going back towards the pits. Clutches dont need cooling or bikes refuelled when they havent even completed a lap. Meetings have always taken too long to run unecessary delays get that sorted and you might get new fans coming back again.

[Tsunami]

Lakeside tonight Heat 3 all 4 riders back. For the rerun the riders should be back at the tapes within 2 mins. No they are sitting outside the pit gate then Sky go for an ad break unbelievable!! Can you imagine new people going tonight having to wait around for the race to start they wont be coming back again!!

 

For re-runs on the first bend the riders take the piss going back towards the pits. Clutches dont need cooling or bikes refuelled when they havent even completed a lap. Meetings have always taken too long to run unecessary delays get that sorted and you might get new fans coming back again.

Thought they said they had to have a sun break.

[Brummie Kev]

Certaintly no alarmingly low crowds at Perry Barr this season, another really good crowd watched the two unbeaten teams in the Nl maintain there unbeaten starts to the season. Seeing the Brummies in past seasons race in front of much poorer crowds in a higher league , I know just what impact consistent poor crowds can have regarding the existence of your club. Its why having gone through it, where the Brummies are at the moment is the right place for seasons to come

[Gresham]

Certaintly no alarmingly low crowds at Perry Barr this season, another really good crowd watched the two unbeaten teams in the Nl maintain there unbeaten starts to the season. Seeing the Brummies in past seasons race in front of much poorer crowds in a higher league , I know just what impact consistent poor crowds can have regarding the existence of your club. Its why having gone through it, where the Brummies are at the moment is the right place for seasons to come

Do you think the crowds have returned due to the Brummies winning, regardless of league...the racing, cost...or any other reason?

 

If it's down to just winning, then surely this Sport is in trouble, if fans only turn up if the team is doing well? Not saying that's the case...but only a few in a league can be successful.