Tai's Training Schools

[steve roberts]

Why the massive over reaction? Ashby was ok but was never a top level rider thats just an honest view

Superb club man for both Swindon and Exeter and achieved very high averages for most of his BL career. Never was able to transfer that dominance to the international scene although he did have a very credible Test Match record.

[phillipsr]

Superb club man for both Swindon and Exeter and achieved very high averages for most of his BL career. Never was able to transfer that dominance to the international scene although he did have a very credible Test Match record.

Agreed but just further proves he was never a top drawer rider

[Sidney the robin]

Why the massive over reaction? Ashby was ok but was never a top level rider thats just an honest view

Did you see him ride ? see the ERA in the bigger picture how fickle are people.Was Wilson, Louis,Boocock (both) Betts,Simmo, Ashby just also rans.Have a look at Ashby at Norden 1975 when he was one of the best riders in the world when that was a vintage era.

Superb club man for both Swindon and Exeter and achieved very high averages for most of his BL career. Never was able to transfer that dominance to the international scene although he did have a very credible Test Match record.

Steve, Norden 1975 his world final record was poor but he was a rider. Edited April 26, 2016 by Sidney the robin

[ColinMills]

saw Ashby and Kilby in the 70s. from my memory, (only saw him round foxhall), he was quite useful, and rather good in test match, dont have memory of him as a title contender (not to say he wasnt) just cant recall it. the times with 16+ league teams. different side every week, and only seeing riders once a year...magical period personally

[Sidney the robin]

saw Ashby and Kilby in the 70s. from my memory, (only saw him round foxhall), he was quite useful, and rather good in test match, dont have memory of him as a title contender (not to say he wasnt) just cant recall it. the times with 16+ league teams. different side every week, and only seeing riders once a year...magical period personally

He was never a contender my take Colin was he was no mug and if he was a mug god there must of been endless others.

[van wolfswinkel]

As Briggo once said "Martin was the best rider in the world at one time but didn't realise it". The mild-mannered modest Marlborough-Flyer always ready for a chat on the Blunsdon terraces or at his workshop in Marlborough. The only time he really lost it was when Chris Pusey put deep-heat gel in his pants when Crash was British captain!!!

[Grachan]

Calm down Sidney. Nobody is having a go at Martin Ashby.

 

I think the whole point here is that Martin was a great great rider for his clubs and, as mentioned, would go out on a limb to ride for them.

 

Maybe he never had the true determination to translate that ability into World Finals. Remember that in 1975, all he had to do was block out Ray Wilson and he would have been in the world final, but he rode fairly and missed out.

 

Woffy has tat single determination, and puts his championship aspirations first. That's what has put him where he is.

[Fourentee]

So did you ever see him ride Cretin

 

No, I've never seen speedway abroad.

[Hobnob Smith]

as an oxford fan I still say Martin Ashby was a great rider in the times when there were many top riders his main fault thou was not being hard enough and was never the same rider after Olsen put him in the fence,

but at a team level you would have him in your team every week and as a person a good man very good with kids and fans

[Daniel Smith]

Just a little something Tai relevant

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iC7BxTwtQs&feature=youtu.be

[BWitcher]

as an oxford fan I still say Martin Ashby was a great rider in the times when there were many top riders his main fault thou was not being hard enough and was never the same rider after Olsen put him in the fence,

but at a team level you would have him in your team every week and as a person a good man very good with kids and fans

 

There were no more 'top riders' then, than there are now worldwide.

 

It was a lot easier to have a high average and win most of your races back then due to the number of teams (so talent spread out) and the race format. Plus most riders were amateur and the bottom end of teams was pretty poor.

 

Hence why in every era of speedway, when it comes to the World Championships, there's always a select few who consistently rise to the top.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BWitcher

[Woz01]

Fair play to Tai for doing this, hopefully we will actually attend these training sessions.

[JC!]

Fair play to Tai for doing this, hopefully we will actually attend these training sessions.

If not he could always ask Martin Ashby to step in for him.

[ColinMills]

 

There were no more 'top riders' then, than there are now worldwide.

 

It was a lot easier to have a high average and win most of your races back then due to the number of teams (so talent spread out) and the race format. Plus most riders were amateur and the bottom end of teams was pretty poor.

 

Hence why in every era of speedway, when it comes to the World Championships, there's always a select few who consistently rise to the top.

having witnessed the best yrs of speedway in the 70s, id disagree here. most teams had 3 heat leaders of quality.

example Jessup/lee/turner...Morton/Collins/sjosten...I also think no6 and no7 were better too. second strings were useful as well.

add to this no stupid "borrowing" of riders, we all had TEAMS to follow, having watched 4 decades of domestic speedway, id pick the 70s everytime. that's not a fact, its an opinion

[Shale Searcher]

There were guests in the 1970's in fact lots of guests...

[ColinMills]

There were guests in the 1970's in fact lots of guests...

guests is a poor fact we always had to put up with...lot different to d/u and ftr riders

[BWitcher]

having witnessed the best yrs of speedway in the 70s, id disagree here. most teams had 3 heat leaders of quality.

example Jessup/lee/turner...Morton/Collins/sjosten...I also think no6 and no7 were better too. second strings were useful as well.

add to this no stupid "borrowing" of riders, we all had TEAMS to follow, having watched 4 decades of domestic speedway, id pick the 70s everytime. that's not a fact, its an opinion

 

Almost all teams in a 16 team league with a 13 heat format will have "three heat leaders of quality".

 

They all appeared so great because they raced each other a lot less. Stick those same teams in the current EL race format for a few seasons and you wouldn't have such a high regard for the majority of the riders.

 

Which leads us to another interesting point.. some (falsely) complain that the gap between riders in races is too much now in the EL.. yet its closer than it has EVER been as the top riders are mostly riding against each other (ignoring the craziness of the reserves moving up this year for one moment).... and yearn to back to the old days when all the heat leaders had very high averages.. why? Because they were winning all their races, making it much more predictable.

 

From a perception and a marketing point of view, it could be argued it is better to have the top riders meet less often.. They then appear more invincible and on the odd occasion they are beaten its a big event. When you look at a team it looks a lot more exciting seeing a 10-11pt rider coming to visit than an 8pt rider as a No 1.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BWitcher

[Agrotron]

Bringing younger British talent on is a huge plus in my eyes whether you like the rider prepared to start such a thing is irrelevant, its good for British Speedway.

 

I can see no need for negativity at all.

[ColinMills]

 

Almost all teams in a 16 team league with a 13 heat format will have "three heat leaders of quality".

 

They all appeared so great because they raced each other a lot less. Stick those same teams in the current EL race format for a few seasons and you wouldn't have such a high regard for the majority of the riders.

 

Which leads us to another interesting point.. some (falsely) complain that the gap between riders in races is too much now in the EL.. yet its closer than it has EVER been as the top riders are mostly riding against each other (ignoring the craziness of the reserves moving up this year for one moment).... and yearn to back to the old days when all the heat leaders had very high averages.. why? Because they were winning all their races, making it much more predictable.

 

From a perception and a marketing point of view, it could be argued it is better to have the top riders meet less often.. They then appear more invincible and on the odd occasion they are beaten its a big event. When you look at a team it looks a lot more exciting seeing a 10-11pt rider coming to visit than an 8pt rider as a No 1.

the 13 ht formula with 16 teams is one I most definitely preferred. better or worse riders, not that bigger deal. to see riders once a year probably gave you an incentive to actually go every week. miss a rider today, it don't matter, he"l be back in two weeks!

because the big riders never met that often, it made the golden helmet really special

[steve roberts]

the 13 ht formula with 16 teams is one I most definitely preferred. better or worse riders, not that bigger deal. to see riders once a year probably gave you an incentive to actually go every week. miss a rider today, it don't matter, he"l be back in two weeks!

because the big riders never met that often, it made the golden helmet really special

Yes I preferred the 13 heat formula and a second half (we were spoilt at Oxford during the early seventies as we got to see the kids from both Eastbourne & Peterborough in the second halves). The heat leaders (1, 3 & 5) were always pitted against each other during the course of the meeting (but of course some Team Mangers played it tactically and sometimes programmed a heat leader to ride at number 4 or even at number 2) I think that it was 'Good Old' Bernie Leigh who has been quoted as saying that the number 4 position was the worse as the second string never had an easy programmed ride.

 

Also, as you say, having more teams in the league meant that you only got to see some teams perhaps once a year which made the occasion special. Ivan Mauger would visit Oxford perhaps just the once, or at the very most twice a year, to Cowley.