Boring

[wealdstone]

My memory of earlier days was as many have said that the first out of the gate usually won. However there was then a level playing field and of course the presentation was much better.

I don't know, I have absolutely no idea.

To give you a bit of background, Inhavent regularly attended the speedway for at least five years and only recently have I returned to regular viewing. Hence, my knowledge is limited.

However, since you're asking, let me make an uneducated guess: Peter Andrè.

Very close but not who I was thinking of.

[LunnasPerm]

Okay, Donald Trump?

[wealdstone]

Okay, Donald Trump?

If he was involved in Speedway he may be a contender

[LunnasPerm]

If he was involved in Speedway he may be a contender

So, I'm getting closer?

 

Cheryl Cole.

[Gresham]

 

And here is the perfect example.

 

You do realise the videos on Youtube are what happened? They are hard and fast, undisputable evidence. They are not fictitious events, created by CGI.

 

What you wish us to believe is, those meetings, and there are many of them now, are not real. Somehow false. Not a fair representation?

 

As I have quite clearly explained numerous times, but you don't seem to grasp is I am not referring to a few videos. I also have the recollection of how brilliant racing used to be in the late 80's to early to mid 90's. Yet I have EVERY SINGLE ONE of those meetings on DVD and when I rewatch them, I soon realise that its nothing like I remember it at all, in fact much of the time its quite dull.

 

Excitement has little to do with speedway's success. Speedway struggles because it has a poor marketing image. It's not deemed 'cool'. All sports have a churn of fans, I know many people who used to go to every home game in football, but no longer go anymore, the difference is they are replaced by new younger fans.

 

Speedway WAS better in the past, not because the racing was much better, if better at all, but because there were good crowds and a vibrant atmosphere. In such an environment a poor race can seem average, an average race is great and a great race is simply out of this world.

 

It's rare these days that feeling can be replicated, with the exception of the playoffs, which is why I love them so much.. its one of the rare times that the old feelings can come flooding back.

Watching videos is one thing...actually being at the meeting is another.

 

You say you remember all those meetings from the 80's and 90's and how brilliant the racing was...yet when you watch them again on TV it isn't how you remembered.

 

Now what does that tell you?

 

It tells you that you thoroughly enjoyed all those meetings you attended, you have great memories...not bad.

 

Then you watch them on tv and it doesn't seem the same...what does that tell you? It tells you that watching live speedway is far better than on tv. Watching it on tv doesn't give you the whole perspective, the sound, or noise, or smell...or the different aspects at watching each rider control and race their bike according to the conditions.

 

What you see on tv, is not the same as being there.

 

Your memory tells you it was good...because it was.

 

You don't seem to grasp the difference between racing today and racing in the past...tv doesn't show that clearly enough.

 

How you can say Speedway's lack of success isn't down to excitement and down to poor marketing is beyond me.

 

You can market all you like, and make something look 'cool'...but if people turn up and the product isn't exciting, then people won't come, however cool you've tried to make it look.

 

You can't polish a turd...because people soon see through it.

 

Fans are walking away in their droves...not because it isn't cool, speedway has never been 'cool'...people are walking away for many reasons, and one of them is a very basic....tracks that are able to be ridden with various racing lines and at least a chance to pass.

 

Bring back the basics, and people will return...you would also have to market it well again to get people back. But once there...if the racing is good...then they will keep going.

 

Now try and read that Witcher...and try to understand it before you reply with some drivel about watching videos...it's totally different...and your brain told you that it was good for a reason....because it was.

[Sidney the robin]

And here is the perfect example.

 

You do realise the videos on Youtube are what happened? They are hard and fast, undisputable evidence. They are not fictitious events, created by CGI.

 

What you wish us to believe is, those meetings, and there are many of them now, are not real. Somehow false. Not a fair representation?

 

As I have quite clearly explained numerous times, but you don't seem to grasp is I am not referring to a few videos. I also have the recollection of how brilliant racing used to be in the late 80's to early to mid 90's. Yet I have EVERY SINGLE ONE of those meetings on DVD and when I rewatch them, I soon realise that its nothing like I remember it at all, in fact much of the time its quite dull.

 

Excitement has little to do with speedway's success. Speedway struggles because it has a poor marketing image. It's not deemed 'cool'. All sports have a churn of fans, I know many people who used to go to every home game in football, but no longer go anymore, the difference is they are replaced by new younger fans.

 

Speedway WAS better in the past, not because the racing was much better, if better at all, but because there were good crowds and a vibrant atmosphere. In such an environment a poor race can seem average, an average race is great and a great race is simply out of this world.

 

It's rare these days that feeling can be replicated, with the exception of the playoffs, which is why I love them so much.. its one of the rare times that the old feelings can come flooding back.

Any input on the 60s, 70s and 80s ? or did you not ever witness it if so ask someone who you know and respect they might enlighten you.!!

[ColinMills]

had loads of re-run videos. with no disrespect, it was way below par coverage of the actual match. from commentary to camera angles

[BWitcher]

Any input on the 60s, 70s and 80s ? or did you not ever witness it if so ask someone who you know and respect they might enlighten you.!!

 

 

Watching videos is one thing...actually being at the meeting is another.

 

You say you remember all those meetings from the 80's and 90's and how brilliant the racing was...yet when you watch them again on TV it isn't how you remembered.

 

Now what does that tell you?

 

It tells you that you thoroughly enjoyed all those meetings you attended, you have great memories...not bad.

 

Then you watch them on tv and it doesn't seem the same...what does that tell you? It tells you that watching live speedway is far better than on tv. Watching it on tv doesn't give you the whole perspective, the sound, or noise, or smell...or the different aspects at watching each rider control and race their bike according to the conditions.

 

What you see on tv, is not the same as being there.

 

Your memory tells you it was good...because it was.

 

You don't seem to grasp the difference between racing today and racing in the past...tv doesn't show that clearly enough.

 

How you can say Speedway's lack of success isn't down to excitement and down to poor marketing is beyond me.

 

You can market all you like, and make something look 'cool'...but if people turn up and the product isn't exciting, then people won't come, however cool you've tried to make it look.

 

You can't polish a turd...because people soon see through it.

 

Fans are walking away in their droves...not because it isn't cool, speedway has never been 'cool'...people are walking away for many reasons, and one of them is a very basic....tracks that are able to be ridden with various racing lines and at least a chance to pass.

 

Bring back the basics, and people will return...you would also have to market it well again to get people back. But once there...if the racing is good...then they will keep going.

 

Now try and read that Witcher...and try to understand it before you reply with some drivel about watching videos...it's totally different...and your brain told you that it was good for a reason....because it was.

 

Why do you contradict yourself so much?

 

You've agreed the racing wasn't any better..

 

Then whitter on about lack of opportunities to pass nowadays.

 

I've explained the reasons why it SEEMED better back then, reasons you have AGREED with.

 

Your argument about less exciting racing, holds no credence.. why? One because you've already destroyed it yourself by admitting that the racing wasn't any better... and secondly, there are tracks now that produce brilliant racing... but very few people go to them...

[steve roberts]

I have a vast collection of DVDs from the 70s, 80s, 90s & 00s and matches are variable during that entire period. The camera work often leaves a lot to be desired (often not catching the action at the back) and although enjoying them from a nostalgic point of view it's the atmosphere that's missing - although listening to the soft tones of Dave Hammond over the PA does help bring it back to me!

[Gresham]

 

 

 

Why do you contradict yourself so much?

 

You've agreed the racing wasn't any better..

 

Then whitter on about lack of opportunities to pass nowadays.

 

I've explained the reasons why it SEEMED better back then, reasons you have AGREED with.

 

Your argument about less exciting racing, holds no credence.. why? One because you've already destroyed it yourself by admitting that the racing wasn't any better... and secondly, there are tracks now that produce brilliant racing... but very few people go to them...

Kinnel...it's like banging my head against a brick wall...Have you been sniffing methanol?

 

Read my posts properly...I've explained numerous times why the racing was better...IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT OVERTAKING...LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU? Please read my posts again before you reply. I've GIVEN NUMEROUS REASONS ABOUT TRACKS, BIKES, THROTTLE CONTROL, RACING LINES ETC.

 

Unreal...no wonder so many people fall out with you.

[ColinMills]

thinking back as to why I think it was better...obviously atmosphere as large crowds can make an ordinary meeting appear better. big big plus, my pet hate d/u didn't exist. also think, with riders only having one team, it felt they were more committed. I believe personal leathers helped. the racing itself, agree with BW, but I'm not one to care if theres no passing, as long as my team are in front!....hindsight, preferred the music, smell, and maybe when your younger, as a kid you have more passion, as you don't have the bills, etc to think about..the product just appears all wrong today

[E I Addio]

Watching videos is one thing...actually being at the meeting is another.

 

You say you remember all those meetings from the 80's and 90's and how brilliant the racing was...yet when you watch them again on TV it isn't how you remembered.

 

Now what does that tell you?

 

It tells you that you thoroughly enjoyed all those meetings you attended, you have great memories...not bad.

 

Then you watch them on tv and it doesn't seem the same...what does that tell you? It tells you that watching live speedway is far better than on tv. Watching it on tv doesn't give you the whole perspective, the sound, or noise, or smell...or the different aspects at watching each rider control and race their bike according to the conditions.

 

What you see on tv, is not the same as being there.

 

Your memory tells you it was good...because it was.

 

You don't seem to grasp the difference between racing today and racing in the past...tv doesn't show that clearly enough.

 

How you can say Speedway's lack of success isn't down to excitement and down to poor marketing is beyond me.

 

You can market all you like, and make something look 'cool'...but if people turn up and the product isn't exciting, then people won't come, however cool you've tried to make it look.

 

You can't polish a turd...because people soon see through it.

 

Fans are walking away in their droves...not because it isn't cool, speedway has never been 'cool'...people are walking away for many reasons, and one of them is a very basic....tracks that are able to be ridden with various racing lines and at least a chance to pass.

 

Bring back the basics, and people will return...you would also have to market it well again to get people back. But once there...if the racing is good...then they will keep going.

 

Now try and read that Witcher...and try to understand it before you reply with some drivel about watching videos...it's totally different...and your brain told you that it was good for a reason....because it was.

There is nothing in that post that you haven't repeated several times already. Some, including myself , have a different opinion. However many times you repeat yourself it won't change the minds of those who disagree with you.

 

As to throttle control all I can say is that I have been going to Speedwáy meetings most of my life and I have rarely seen the masterclass of throttle control and cut backs that Peter Karlsson used to demonstrate week in week out in his days at Lakeside, and no doubt Bwitcher will say he was the same at Wolves. That is my considered opinion from being there, not from DVD's. There are and always have been good and bad riders and good and bad meetings. For goodness sake leave it at that.

Edited April 27, 2016 by E I Addio

[ColinMills]

john earrey helped BIG time

[steve roberts]

john earrey helped BIG time

'As long as we know'

 

Followed by 'The William Tell Overture"

[BWitcher]

Kinnel...it's like banging my head against a brick wall...Have you been sniffing methanol?

 

Read my posts properly...I've explained numerous times why the racing was better...IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT OVERTAKING...LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU? Please read my posts again before you reply. I've GIVEN NUMEROUS REASONS ABOUT TRACKS, BIKES, THROTTLE CONTROL, RACING LINES ETC.

 

Unreal...no wonder so many people fall out with you.

 

 

I've given you the reason why it was all better in the past and that was the atmosphere. Nothing more, nothing less. Take exactly the same meetings from the past, stage them now in front of a few hundred people, you'd have the same 'throttle control, tracks, racing lines' but you'd think it was dull.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BWitcher

[steve roberts]

Perhaps we should start a new thread...'Who was the best announcer?'

[ColinMills]

Perhaps we should start a new thread...'Who was the best announcer?'

top spot is taken!

 

 

I've given you the reason why it was all better in the past and that was the atmosphere. Nothing more, nothing less. Take exactly the same meetings from the past, stage them now in front of a few hundred people, you'd have the same 'throttle control, tracks, racing lines' but you'd think it was dull.

bit of truth in this post. you go to Cardiff or stand in a play off crowd,you are well up for a bit of banter and tension. a normal quiet league match, you end up checking your mobile!

[Sidney the robin]

Graham Guthrie/ Graham Hambly and John Sutton all top class in my book.

[steve roberts]

top spot is taken!

I got to enjoy the tones of John Earrey when he was presenter at White City. How he remained impartial when Ipswich came to town I don't know...a true professional!

[BWitcher]

I have a vast collection of DVDs from the 70s, 80s, 90s & 00s and matches are variable during that entire period. The camera work often leaves a lot to be desired (often not catching the action at the back) and although enjoying them from a nostalgic point of view it's the atmosphere that's missing - although listening to the soft tones of Dave Hammond over the PA does help bring it back to me!

 

Thanks Steve, again this is exactly the point I am making. Atmosphere makes the sport.

 

In the early 80's the sport lost some glamour with riders like Penhall departing the scene.. then there was the 'fixed' races scandal after which the media began to cover the sport less and less. Less media coverage meant it began to fade away from the eyes of the general public and in particular the youngsters required to replace the natural wastage of fans drifting away, dying.

 

As the crowds gradually dropped, the atmosphere began to drop, good races didn't seem as good or thrilling.. Average races became poor races and so on.

 

Year on year the problems gradually have got worse.

 

However, the sport can still produce.. when the playoffs come along and you have a big crowd, it suddenly becomes brilliant again. Same riders, same tracks, same bikes.. its just the ATMOSPHERE.

Edited April 27, 2016 by BWitcher