BWitcher Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Blimey...keep your knickers on... Like I said, we can agree to disagree. You obviously find it easier...Whilst myself and others find it easier to pick riders out, who aren't adorned in lots of sponsors and a multitude of colours. I've watched Speedway since the mid 70's...and since the introduction of more sponsorship on kevlars, often smaller club emblem and bike and handlebar covers adorned with sponsorship and colour, it has for many I know, been harder to follow a race. So I'm afraid you are wrong PERIOD...very wrong...as you can't speak for everyone. Some obviously prefer it...but not everyone. I like the way you find a word like 'pick' to back up your argument though. 'Pick' was obviously the wrong term to use...perhaps 'STAND OUT' would have been better. I'd love to back up my thoughts with photos...but it seems this forum doesn't let you upload pics or put links to them. I've asked this three times on this forum...with never any reply. Is it like the Masons...do I need some secret handshake to get accepted and allowed to use such features? The options are there...but they won't work for me. A quick question...you don't own the company that supplies kevlars to teams do you? Edit...I tried to add some smilies and emotions...but it won't even let me do that...all very odd. What a load of waffle. Again, it isn't something to disagree on. There is a childrens section of the forum if you want to go and post fantasies. A race jacket is about 75cm by 75cm.. the logo on it can only be seen when looking at the front of the rider.. something you are rarely doing when watching a speedway race. A team suit is the size of the rider wearing it and can be seen from front, back, side. But you claim the small object that is only viewed from one angle is more visible. I'll have whatever you're smoking/drinking! I suggest you start campaigning that football teams abandon the strips they wear, just go with a logo on their chest, any colour for the rest will do as that is basically what you want for speedway. Edited April 13, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 What a load of waffle. Again, it isn't something to disagree on. There is a childrens section of the forum if you want to go and post fantasies. A race jacket is about 75cm by 75cm.. the logo on it can only be seen when looking at the front of the rider.. something you are rarely doing when watching a speedway race. A team suit is the size of the rider wearing it and can be seen from front, back, side. But you claim the small object that is only viewed from one angle is more visible. I'll have whatever you're smoking/drinking! I suggest you start campaigning that football teams abandon the strips they wear, just go with a logo on their chest, any colour for the rest will do as that is basically what you want for speedway. There's a children's section...? Fantastic...I bet you're the Headmistress ( although feels more like a Dictatorship )...lead the way ;-) How you can talk for other people, and know how they feel? Almost God like...it's quiet an astonishing quality. God knows ( that'll be you by the way ) how we managed to watch riders race for many years in just black leathers, two different coloured race jackets and really small helmet covers ( I'm not offay with the dimensions, perhaps you can let me know, you seem good at that ). I can't remember any of us saying...'who the hell is leading? I wish we had some flashy team race suits covered in loads of sponsors...that'll do it'. And guess what...you could also see the back of the race jacket...with a big shiny number on it...often in a different colour. Pretty advanced technology I know...but lets not digress here. Next time i'm watching Belle Vue v Swindon I'll think of you ;-) As for the football...I'll remember to tell them to get rid of all the sponsors emblazoned all over their bodies...and damn the away team...how dare they turn up in an away strip of colours not clashing... As for smoking...I don't...but my drink of choice, is a nice bottle of single malt Scotch entitled 'the voice of reason' it has hints of sweetness, subtle undertones of sarcasm and a lingering taste of nuttiness ;-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Speedway, lower league Football, cinema etc, in fact any form of entertainment that was previously seen as a weekly experience faces far more competition now than it ever has. As a global population there are more forms of entertainment available to us all now than there ever has been before. It is now possible for people to watch a game of football from anywhere in the world in their own home rather than attending a speedway meeting, to watch a film that is premiering at the cinema from their own home rather than attend a speedway meeting. The standard of TV show available from streaming services like Netflix or on Sky Atlantic is at a level it has never been before, these are all things people can chose to do rather than attend a speedway meeting. These are the trends speedway has to move with and adapt around and could do more of via better social interaction and a more modern presentation of the sport (team suits alone isn’t enough the entire product needs a more “night out/darts” feel to it IMO, appreciate others will disagree). Consider all of those things and then consider the changing demographic of a typical family relationship now compared to 15/20/30 years ago eg the man of the house having to spend more time with the family than ever before and then you can see why attendances have massively dropped since the 80s but have remained consistently around that drop for nearly 20 years now since 2000s, thus that is the regression to the mean for the sport. It is a sport that attracts bang average/low attendances but does attract an audience and continues to, it is just that the lower crowds are now the norm rather than an irregularity and the sport has “lived” with that for kicking on 10 + years now. I doubt things like FTR, Guests, RR etc are going to massively impact crowds because only about 0.000001% of the population actually care about those things (albeit I appreciate those that do care have a passionate care of the subjects). I think the things that will make it peak within that market will be, quite often dependant on the weather that season (not something that can be controlled but given it is a summer sport it is a massive factor in the direction a season goes) the way it is priced, I think it is overpriced given the other options available and also the balance of sides at the start of the season, eg, I think this season will impact a lot of drifting fans in the EL, although probably not at tracks like Poole, Belle Vue, Swindon, Wolves, Lakeside where it looks like they will have a “good season”. I don’t think you will ever see a massive increase in attendances again but simply sliding scales within the 500/3,000 market dependant where you are in the country and the season the side is having, and given it has now done that for 10 + years I don't see why it would suddenly die out because of that in the short term at least. Oh that old chestnut again,speedways ills are all to blame on today's society that people have so much more to choose from.Well its correct in a fashion, they have plentiful options to watch things that are far more entertaining and far better value for money, If you need a reason why speedway is struggling watch tonight's match on the box, 7.30 start and you have to wait until 9.10 for something to happen.,no wonder we are down to the die hards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I think I have seen it all now ..not only do you find that People want no's 1 to replaced by Juniors, I now find out that is easy to pick riders out if they don't wear team colours ....I am amazed what I read on here .it's jaw dropping , 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I think I have seen it all now ..not only do you find that People want no's 1 to replaced by Juniors, I now find out that is easy to pick riders out if they don't wear team colours ....I am amazed what I read on here .it's jaw dropping , Ahhh...I used to own an Orion back in the day...had those pepper pot alloy wheels...lovely bright shade of red. Used to fly up to Blunsdon in it regularly :-) Unbelievable amount of posts there fella/lass 21,000 +...I'm honoured to have made your jaw drop. Thing is...you've only read part of it...RR wouldn't exist if I had my way....Nor guests... I'd tear up the book and start again with different rules. These team colours are causing a storm...unbelievable isn't it. I find it fascinating that we rode for years...including the glory years...when we were the second highest average attended sport in the uk...and I didn't once hear, ' this is ridiculous, I can't see who is riding for who...it's a bloody blur'. I have however heard the words regularly voiced...'it's like watching a hurricane taking all the washing off the line, and whipping it down the back straight'...or words to that effect ;-) Out of interest...has anyone ever looked at a Clubs or riders sponsor and thought...'bugger, I must go and buy whatever product they are selling'? I know I haven't...apart from in 1978 when Durex sponsored meetings...was all a bit of a giggle back then asking Dad 'What the hell is Durex'? :-) My jaw is dropping to the fact people are getting up in arms about team race suits... Glad I amused you though Orion...as did your avatar...filmed in Bristol if memory serves me right :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Ahhh...I used to own an Orion back in the day...had those pepper pot alloy wheels...lovely bright shade of red. Used to fly up to Blunsdon in it regularly :-) Unbelievable amount of posts there fella/lass 21,000 +...I'm honoured to have made your jaw drop. Thing is...you've only read part of it...RR wouldn't exist if I had my way....Nor guests... I'd tear up the book and start again with different rules. These team colours are causing a storm...unbelievable isn't it. I find it fascinating that we rode for years...including the glory years...when we were the second highest average attended sport in the uk...and I didn't once hear, ' this is ridiculous, I can't see who is riding for who...it's a bloody blur'. I have however heard the words regularly voiced...'it's like watching a hurricane taking all the washing off the line, and whipping it down the back straight'...or words to that effect ;-) Out of interest...has anyone ever looked at a Clubs or riders sponsor and thought...'bugger, I must go and buy whatever product they are selling'? I know I haven't...apart from in 1978 when Durex sponsored meetings...was all a bit of a giggle back then asking Dad 'What the hell is Durex'? :-) My jaw is dropping to the fact people are getting up in arms about team race suits... Glad I amused you though Orion...as did your avatar...filmed in Bristol if memory serves me right :-) I did read the whole of your posts about no guests and no rr ...speedway clubs would go bust in about 3 weeks ...glad you liked the picture you may have no idea how to run a speedway club but your knowledge of tv detectives is first class Edited April 13, 2016 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I did read the whole of your posts about no guests and no rr ...speedway clubs would go bust in about 3 weeks ...glad you liked the picture you may have no idea how to run a speedway club but your knowledge of tv detectives is first class Indeed they would...and let it happen I say. Lets start again. Boom...Oh hang on...lets not rattle any cages here...don't want to upset the establishment ;-) Fingers in pies...using speedway tracks as a tax loss on other businesses...couldn't give a flying about the future or supporters! Not all...but ho hum...lets all stick our heads in the sand. My knowledge of detective series is rather less then my knowledge of speedway and running a club...but let that not get in the way of facts...or that I really want to go there. However...we can agree on one thing...I think you love Speedway as much as me...maybe more...and we all want the best for it. Some want it to change ( that will include me ) others will be quiet happy to go along with it...because they might know someone in the game. Either way...I do know that some bloke coming on to a forum out of the blue for some time, and giving it all, will really piss some people off. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Why 7 riders? It's an arbitrary figure. It's not really arbitrary. 7 riders means that heats can be programmed so that no rider has two programmed on the trot, but more importantly, so that riders usually have more than one heat in between their programmed rides as well. You can do it with 6 riders as well, but then you leave yourself short in the event of in-meeting injuries or when having to operate R/R. It also means that extra rides taken by reserves and (in the past) tactical subs could mean riders have 3 or more rides in a row. Actually 8 riders would be a better number for a 15 heat meeting because it would allow for more balanced heat permutations, but you're paying the travel of extra rider that isn't strictly needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 It's not really arbitrary. 7 riders means that heats can be programmed so that no rider has two programmed on the trot, but more importantly, so that riders usually have more than one heat in between their programmed rides as well. You can do it with 6 riders as well, but then you leave yourself short in the event of in-meeting injuries or when having to operate R/R. It also means that extra rides taken by reserves and (in the past) tactical subs could mean riders have 3 or more rides in a row. Actually 8 riders would be a better number for a 15 heat meeting because it would allow for more balanced heat permutations, but you're paying the travel of extra rider that isn't strictly needed. Hi H A...Annoying bloke here...out of interest...is there any other sport that pays for travelling to a meeting/game? Can understand individual one off's etc...but weekly games/meetings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) ........Gresham.......I'd love to back up my thoughts with photos...but it seems this forum doesn't let you upload pics or put links to them. I've asked this three times on this forum...with never any reply. Nothing to stop you putting a link to a photo on Facebook, Twitter or other sources. It's only photos directly onto the forum that aren't allowed. Personally I much prefer race suits to a race jacket when team mates are wearing different coloured leathers. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150150480337785&set=a.10150148628652785.325833.550797784&type=3&theater Edited April 13, 2016 by Gemini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Nothing to stop you putting a link to a photo on Facebook, Twitter or other sources. It's only photos directly onto the forum that aren't allowed. Personally I much prefer race suits to a race jacket when team mates are wearing different coloured leathers. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150150480337785&set=a.10150148628652785.325833.550797784&type=3&theater No problem Gemini...thank you for letting me know about restrictions of photos...I felt like a leper before as no one would answer my question...so appreciated. :-) Funnily...the link you put up, directed me straight to a picture...where instantly my eye was drawn to the race jackets...Belle vue and Wolves...it was instant and hit me between the eyes. I've got no problem with the idea of race suits...it's just that they need to ne made more simple...less fussy and more in your face and distinctive. How obvious is Birmingham for example?...Lakeside was...but not this season. I give up with Swindon...could be anybody in red/back and white. As is Somerset... The main thing is sponsorship...and this is where i'd tear up the rule book. It would only be team sponsors showing on team kevlars not individuals. I'd love to know how much income all of these sponsors gain from getting their name on a riders kevlars...apart from it being a tax right off for the business and a chance to meet and schmooze with speedways 'establishment'. ;-) Thanks again for taking the time to let me know about links...appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Premier League, less stress, more fun, normally devoid of Poole fans except for the doubling-up village idiot at Somerset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Oh that old chestnut again,speedways ills are all to blame on today's society that people have so much more to choose from.Well its correct in a fashion, they have plentiful options to watch things that are far more entertaining and far better value for money, If you need a reason why speedway is struggling watch tonight's match on the box, 7.30 start and you have to wait until 9.10 for something to happen.,no wonder we are down to the die hards. It isn’t an old chestnut, the real problem that is streaming services is quite a new one, and nor at any stage has anyone said that all of speedways ills are to blame on society or streaming services. A massive difference between shows on Netflix that are seemingly “far more entertaining” and speedway/sport though is that they are entertainment shows that are scripted, last night’s meeting, and every meeting/game put on is a “sporting” event which isn’t built to entertain neutrals if it happens to tick that box though it is an additional bonus Sky “Sports” will show hour after hour of football, rugby, NFL, Golf and Speedway this season and the vast majority of what they show will be boring dud, crap TV, that is before you even consider that most of the viewers qho are watching the events as neutrals with zero emotional attachment to either side, thus decreasing their opinion of what they are watching even further, as would have been the case last night with Leicester and Swindon (bet most Leicester fans thought it was great) What Sport does have is an incredible ability to create an organic script that sees the unexpected produced on occasion that is the magic of sport. In all honesty if anyone regularly attends a sides meetings, football matches etc and is a season ticket holder they will see quite a low % of amazing moments, but it is worth suffering through the general regression of mean that is a game of football/speedway meeting for those moments. I would assume any speedway fan who follows a side and attends weekly will only really see 4 or 5 excellent meetings a season and probably only about 20 or 30 excellent races live, that ratio probably hasn’t changed much over the years, people simply don’t recall and reminisce about crap races or crap games of football, or games of football that drag on for 30 minutes or so as sides hang on for a draw or see a game out for a win, that’s where sport massively differs from other forms of entertainment, and that’s generally why people have such a strong emotional bond to sport that they will rarely have for TV shows, that bond is sports USP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) Oh that old chestnut again,speedways ills are all to blame on today's society that people have so much more to choose from.Well its correct in a fashion, they have plentiful options to watch things that are far more entertaining and far better value for money, If you need a reason why speedway is struggling watch tonight's match on the box, 7.30 start and you have to wait until 9.10 for something to happen.,no wonder we are down to the die hards. Got that all wrong didn't you. Decent meeting with improved racing at Leicester. Edited April 14, 2016 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) Got tha all wrong didn't you. Decent meeting with improved racing at Leicester. Did he? I watched till 8:55 when I went to the gym and hadn't seen a pass by that point... so 9:10 can't have been far off! In saying that, I still enjoyed it though. Having backed Leicester to win may have helped there a tad! Edited April 14, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) Did he? I watched till 8:55 when I went to the gym and hadn't seen a pass by that point... so 9:10 can't have been far off! In saying that, I still enjoyed it though. Having backed Leicester to win may have helped there a tad! Yes he did. It was a lot better than normal, and the Robins started to come back at the end. Decent meeting. The track will further improve when they get both ends done, and then recut the banking to the new width. Edited April 14, 2016 by Tsunami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Premier League, less stress, more fun, normally devoid of Poole fans except for the doubling-up village idiot at Somerset. And most important less fans ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishRoundabout Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Premier League, less stress, more fun, normally devoid of Poole fans except for the doubling-up village idiot at Somerset. There's a fair few Poole fans every week at Somerset. And a good bunch they are too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damosuzuki Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 And most important less fans ... Really? two weeks ago : http://www.glasgowtigers.co/video/glasgow-tigers-vs-edinburgh-monarchs-lc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 Yes he did. It was a lot better than normal, and the Robins started to come back at the end. Decent meeting. The track will further improve when they get both ends done, and then recut the banking to the new width. This is the problem with speedway's apologists, They keep telling us we are watching good stuff when as on Wednesday most of it was dull and boring. Read the comments of the Leic-Swindon thread, committed speedway fans are turning the TV over of finding something else to do which is the mirror image of the sport as a hole, if you don't entertain / excite people they will find something else to do,hence the lowest crowds we have had at speedway for a generation. There was even a poor crowd at Leicester last night when they were giving it away at £10. Contrast it with tonight's Premier League darts,3 hours of top entertainment,chalk and cheese with last night.You can't fool the public,darts has a good TV deal,has sponsors fighting each other to get on ,board and packs 9 thousand in on a weekly basis paying upwards of £30, meanwhile speedway has a pittance TV deal no main sponsor and ever dwindling crowds,the facts don,t lie ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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