Premier League V Elite League

[orion]

And when your team loses at home due in part to a low scoring junior, what would your feelings being then. R/R has problems, but other suggestions carry greater probs.

The trouble is thou we all don't like guests and rr as a rule I have not seen anyone come with a better and workable answer ..putting juniors up would crush already falling crowds .

[sparkafag]

The biggest difference between R/R and a junior replacing a member of the 1-7 is that one of those things has actually happened and one hasn’t which gives those who are anti R/R some weight to their argument.

 

If you are anti R/R you can point at that tangible and say “this has damaged the sport” and are probably right, I don’t think many would say it hasn’t been one of the 1,000 cuts.

 

It isn’t possible though to point at the damage a junior guesting for a member of the 1-7 would do, and that is a blessing IMO, because while there isn’t recent evidence to support what would happen if a junior was drafted into the side, I don’t think I want to see it to enable people to say “told you so” as they stand there with literally no one in attendance.

[Fromafar]

Would it not just be easier (and far less time consuming) to say you don’t know how many people should be attending speedway at Scunthorpe in order to make it viable?

If you read my first post on the matter I said I don't know,but giving the fact that Plymouth Promotion said 450 was not viable for them I assume other clubs might be in the same boat.Most speedway fans know that 450 through the gate means their club is in trouble financially.You dispute this however( because you don't know anything) ,it is a forum though.!

[sparkafag]

If you read my first post on the matter I said I don't know

 

Could have ended it at that.

[Fromafar]

Could have ended it at that.

But for your reply I might have

[Gresham]

I'll post here, instead of replying to every post...but appreciate the replies.

 

The reason I prefer a junior rider or contracted squad rider over a guest or RR, is because I'm not fixated with the result.

 

I'd rather see a Clubs rider given the opportunity to ride against better riders, and challenge himself, and enjoy watching his determination to improve and gradual development. I couldn't give two hoots as to the result...backs to the wall stuff.

 

Having been away from Speedway for a while, although not in the wilderness, I've come back with an open mind and haven't been living in the 'Speedway bubble'...where it is easy to be sucked in.

 

I can see so many faults to Speedway...it will eventually die if it's run the same way.

 

The biggest problem I see with Speedway is it's identity. Speedway really doesn't know what it is. It has an identity crisis.

 

Is it an individual sport or a team sport? It's neither one or the other.

 

As a 'team sport' it's been allowed to develop into a random bunch of riders, changing teams pretty much every season, and racing against one another. Constantly changing clubs. Each rider has his own machinery...his own kevlars, his own sponsors...they all look different...there is no Club identity like you get with other sports.

 

Each season...the powers that be, get together and change the rules constantly to fit these riders into a system that may work. It doesn't.

 

I have a copy of backtrack and speedway star in front of me.

 

Looking at Backtrack...I see pictures of riders and the one thing that jumps out at me, is the Clubs simple but distinctive race jackets. I know exactly who each rider is racing for. I see the Club badge...the Club.

 

Looking at Speedway star...all I see are a myriad of sponsors names...I'm squinting to make out which rider is riding for which club...

 

Speedway needs to concentrate on the Club more...a team...a bonding. Fans can relate to that like they do in other sports.

 

If riders want to ride in Individual meetings then let them. Let them get their own sponsors etc. Go off and race like a Road Racer or Moto X rider.

 

However...for Domestic Club racing to work...imo, it has to collapse and start again. For the long term benefit of speedway as a whole.

 

We need standardised club bikes.

 

Sponsors that sponsor the clubs more, and not individual riders.

 

Simpler distinctive club race jackets. Club kevlars. Club bike covers.

 

Club riders that race for one club...part time. Speedway shouldn't be the sole income for a rider.

 

A first team, second team and academy.

 

Bring costs right down...almost to an amateur status.

 

Let their be an Individual GP circuit and other individual events...but don't let it effect the domestic club scene.

 

From what I can see...Riders are ruling this sport. They are all striving to be like their Road racing and Moto X counterparts...but there isn't the same money floating about.

 

Clubs should take stock...Promotors should rule the roost and make dramatic changes...not fanny about every season. Every season they send a message out to the fans that something isn't right with the sport, because of the constant tinkering.

 

How you also expect to race in Britain with our weather, and think it's ok to keep cancelling events because of some rain is farcical beyond belief.

 

Has anyone worked out how many cancellations there are in a season yet? Like no other weekly club sport I can tell you.

 

The sooner people realise this the better...looking at how many clubs are struggling and closing and people walking away, I can't grasp how promotors just keep doing the same thing over and over again...utter madness.

 

Sod the riders...If they don't like it...walk away.

 

Clubs and promotors have to take the bull by the horn and change things dramatically.

 

If it means almost starting again then so be it.

 

Expecting a pile of abuse and people making excuses saying it could never happen...but they'll be the one's bemoaning speedway being dead at their track soon.

[steve roberts]

I'll post here, instead of replying to every post...but appreciate the replies.

 

The reason I prefer a junior rider or contracted squad rider over a guest or RR, is because I'm not fixated with the result.

 

I'd rather see a Clubs rider given the opportunity to ride against better riders, and challenge himself, and enjoy watching his determination to improve and gradual development. I couldn't give two hoots as to the result...backs to the wall stuff.

 

Having been away from Speedway for a while, although not in the wilderness, I've come back with an open mind and haven't been living in the 'Speedway bubble'...where it is easy to be sucked in.

 

I can see so many faults to Speedway...it will eventually die if it's run the same way.

 

The biggest problem I see with Speedway is it's identity. Speedway really doesn't know what it is. It has an identity crisis.

 

Is it an individual sport or a team sport? It's neither one or the other.

 

As a 'team sport' it's been allowed to develop into a random bunch of riders, changing teams pretty much every season, and racing against one another. Constantly changing clubs. Each rider has his own machinery...his own kevlars, his own sponsors...they all look different...there is no Club identity like you get with other sports.

 

Each season...the powers that be, get together and change the rules constantly to fit these riders into a system that may work. It doesn't.

 

I have a copy of backtrack and speedway star in front of me.

 

Looking at Backtrack...I see pictures of riders and the one thing that jumps out at me, is the Clubs simple but distinctive race jackets. I know exactly who each rider is racing for. I see the Club badge...the Club.

 

Looking at Speedway star...all I see are a myriad of sponsors names...I'm squinting to make out which rider is riding for which club...

 

Speedway needs to concentrate on the Club more...a team...a bonding. Fans can relate to that like they do in other sports.

 

If riders want to ride in Individual meetings then let them. Let them get their own sponsors etc. Go off and race like a Road Racer or Moto X rider.

 

However...for Domestic Club racing to work...imo, it has to collapse and start again. For the long term benefit of speedway as a whole.

 

We need standardised club bikes.

 

Sponsors that sponsor the clubs more, and not individual riders.

 

Simpler distinctive club race jackets. Club kevlars. Club bike covers.

 

Club riders that race for one club...part time. Speedway shouldn't be the sole income for a rider.

 

A first team, second team and academy.

 

Bring costs right down...almost to an amateur status.

 

Let their be an Individual GP circuit and other individual events...but don't let it effect the domestic club scene.

 

From what I can see...Riders are ruling this sport. They are all striving to be like their Road racing and Moto X counterparts...but there isn't the same money floating about.

 

Clubs should take stock...Promotors should rule the roost and make dramatic changes...not fanny about every season. Every season they send a message out to the fans that something isn't right with the sport, because of the constant tinkering.

 

How you also expect to race in Britain with our weather, and think it's ok to keep cancelling events because of some rain is farcical beyond belief.

 

Has anyone worked out how many cancellations there are in a season yet? Like no other weekly club sport I can tell you.

 

The sooner people realise this the better...looking at how many clubs are struggling and closing and people walking away, I can't grasp how promotors just keep doing the same thing over and over again...utter madness.

 

Sod the riders...If they don't like it...walk away.

 

Clubs and promotors have to take the bull by the horn and change things dramatically.

 

If it means almost starting again then so be it.

 

Expecting a pile of abuse and people making excuses saying it could never happen...but they'll be the one's bemoaning speedway being dead at their track soon.

Enjoyed reading your post! I agree with much of what you say.

Edited April 12, 2016 by steve roberts

[Fromafar]

I'll post here, instead of replying to every post...but appreciate the replies.

 

The reason I prefer a junior rider or contracted squad rider over a guest or RR, is because I'm not fixated with the result.

 

I'd rather see a Clubs rider given the opportunity to ride against better riders, and challenge himself, and enjoy watching his determination to improve and gradual development. I couldn't give two hoots as to the result...backs to the wall stuff.

 

Having been away from Speedway for a while, although not in the wilderness, I've come back with an open mind and haven't been living in the 'Speedway bubble'...where it is easy to be sucked in.

 

I can see so many faults to Speedway...it will eventually die if it's run the same way.

 

The biggest problem I see with Speedway is it's identity. Speedway really doesn't know what it is. It has an identity crisis.

 

Is it an individual sport or a team sport? It's neither one or the other.

 

As a 'team sport' it's been allowed to develop into a random bunch of riders, changing teams pretty much every season, and racing against one another. Constantly changing clubs. Each rider has his own machinery...his own kevlars, his own sponsors...they all look different...there is no Club identity like you get with other sports.

 

Each season...the powers that be, get together and change the rules constantly to fit these riders into a system that may work. It doesn't.

 

I have a copy of backtrack and speedway star in front of me.

 

Looking at Backtrack...I see pictures of riders and the one thing that jumps out at me, is the Clubs simple but distinctive race jackets. I know exactly who each rider is racing for. I see the Club badge...the Club.

 

Looking at Speedway star...all I see are a myriad of sponsors names...I'm squinting to make out which rider is riding for which club...

 

Speedway needs to concentrate on the Club more...a team...a bonding. Fans can relate to that like they do in other sports.

 

If riders want to ride in Individual meetings then let them. Let them get their own sponsors etc. Go off and race like a Road Racer or Moto X rider.

 

However...for Domestic Club racing to work...imo, it has to collapse and start again. For the long term benefit of speedway as a whole.

 

We need standardised club bikes.

 

Sponsors that sponsor the clubs more, and not individual riders.

 

Simpler distinctive club race jackets. Club kevlars. Club bike covers.

 

Club riders that race for one club...part time. Speedway shouldn't be the sole income for a rider.

 

A first team, second team and academy.

 

Bring costs right down...almost to an amateur status.

 

Let their be an Individual GP circuit and other individual events...but don't let it effect the domestic club scene.

 

From what I can see...Riders are ruling this sport. They are all striving to be like their Road racing and Moto X counterparts...but there isn't the same money floating about.

 

Clubs should take stock...Promotors should rule the roost and make dramatic changes...not fanny about every season. Every season they send a message out to the fans that something isn't right with the sport, because of the constant tinkering.

 

How you also expect to race in Britain with our weather, and think it's ok to keep cancelling events because of some rain is farcical beyond belief.

 

Has anyone worked out how many cancellations there are in a season yet? Like no other weekly club sport I can tell you.

 

The sooner people realise this the better...looking at how many clubs are struggling and closing and people walking away, I can't grasp how promotors just keep doing the same thing over and over again...utter madness.

 

Sod the riders...If they don't like it...walk away.

 

Clubs and promotors have to take the bull by the horn and change things dramatically.

 

If it means almost starting again then so be it.

 

Expecting a pile of abuse and people making excuses saying it could never happen...but they'll be the one's bemoaning speedway being dead at their track soon.

I agree.

[sparkafag]

I wouldn’t abuse someone but it always irks me a little when someone throws out a definitive post of what the sports needs and should be like and then claims “expecting abuse and excuses”.

 

I mean it isn’t like people might just disagree, no. Instead anything said in counter is instantly positioned as abuse and excuses.

 

I mean a decent counter point being the sport needs team suits…. It has had them for about 20 years now, but that’s just an abusive excuse.

[Alan_Jones]

It would be naïve of me to assume I know how much it costs to run a speedway meeting. I don’t know how much it costs to have programmes printed let alone what it costs for catering, health and safety , ambulance crew, stadium running costs, average income/outgoings for a meeting or any additional income paid for catering/drinks etc, hence asking to see if anyone did know, or had a rough idea re what is sustainable for a side rather than just making wild sweeping claims about costs and knowing what everyone seemingly knows re what riders are paid.

When Speedway Star did an article on rider & promotion costs in November 2014 they came up with some figures for fixed stadium/match costs of just over £2000 which didn't include the very variable figure for stadium rent. For a PL meeting they were advised that £4500 was a reasonable figure for riders pay which didn't include travel money which would have to be paid for home & away meetings.

[Gresham]

I wouldn’t abuse someone but it always irks me a little when someone throws out a definitive post of what the sports needs and should be like and then claims “expecting abuse and excuses”.

 

I mean it isn’t like people might just disagree, no. Instead anything said in counter is instantly positioned as abuse and excuses.

 

I mean a decent counter point being the sport needs team suits…. It has had them for about 20 years now, but that’s just an abusive excuse.

Disagreeing with rational counter points is fine...no problem with that...and yes, I've seen the 'team' kevlars. they are bloody awful. Too complicated. Great for a close up photograph...but hopeless when watching a meeting from a distance.

 

Fine if you disagree...but do you think the sport is doing ok? What changes if any are needed?

 

The sport is dying...yet people seem quiet happy to let it, and just bicker over how a post is written or other trivia...

[sparkafag]

Disagreeing with rational counter points is fine...no problem with that...and yes, I've seen the 'team' kevlars. they are bloody awful. Too complicated. Great for a close up photograph...but hopeless when watching a meeting from a distance.

 

Fine if you disagree...but do you think the sport is doing ok? What changes if any are needed?

 

The sport is dying...yet people seem quiet happy to let it, and just bicker over how a post is written or other trivia...

 

Who is happy the sport is dying?

Who is happy to let that happen?

Who has said the sport is doing ok?

Who has abused you?

 

The answer to all of those questions is absolutely no one on this thread, so maybe come down off your high horse.

 

I think it harsh to say the sport needs team suits, even though it does and then for you to say they are awful, that’s a subjective opinion that will differ based on who is spoken to, teams are never going to simply straw poll you alone re how suits should appear.

Edited April 13, 2016 by sparkafag

[FAST GATER]

I'll post here, instead of replying to every post...but appreciate the replies.

 

The reason I prefer a junior rider or contracted squad rider over a guest or RR, is because I'm not fixated with the result.

 

I'd rather see a Clubs rider given the opportunity to ride against better riders, and challenge himself, and enjoy watching his determination to improve and gradual development. I couldn't give two hoots as to the result...backs to the wall stuff.

 

Having been away from Speedway for a while, although not in the wilderness, I've come back with an open mind and haven't been living in the 'Speedway bubble'...where it is easy to be sucked in.

 

I can see so many faults to Speedway...it will eventually die if it's run the same way.

 

The biggest problem I see with Speedway is it's identity. Speedway really doesn't know what it is. It has an identity crisis.

 

Is it an individual sport or a team sport? It's neither one or the other.

 

As a 'team sport' it's been allowed to develop into a random bunch of riders, changing teams pretty much every season, and racing against one another. Constantly changing clubs. Each rider has his own machinery...his own kevlars, his own sponsors...they all look different...there is no Club identity like you get with other sports.

 

Each season...the powers that be, get together and change the rules constantly to fit these riders into a system that may work. It doesn't.

 

I have a copy of backtrack and speedway star in front of me.

 

Looking at Backtrack...I see pictures of riders and the one thing that jumps out at me, is the Clubs simple but distinctive race jackets. I know exactly who each rider is racing for. I see the Club badge...the Club.

 

Looking at Speedway star...all I see are a myriad of sponsors names...I'm squinting to make out which rider is riding for which club...

 

Speedway needs to concentrate on the Club more...a team...a bonding. Fans can relate to that like they do in other sports.

 

If riders want to ride in Individual meetings then let them. Let them get their own sponsors etc. Go off and race like a Road Racer or Moto X rider.

 

However...for Domestic Club racing to work...imo, it has to collapse and start again. For the long term benefit of speedway as a whole.

 

We need standardised club bikes.

 

Sponsors that sponsor the clubs more, and not individual riders.

 

Simpler distinctive club race jackets. Club kevlars. Club bike covers.

 

Club riders that race for one club...part time. Speedway shouldn't be the sole income for a rider.

 

A first team, second team and academy.

 

Bring costs right down...almost to an amateur status.

 

Let their be an Individual GP circuit and other individual events...but don't let it effect the domestic club scene.

 

From what I can see...Riders are ruling this sport. They are all striving to be like their Road racing and Moto X counterparts...but there isn't the same money floating about.

 

Clubs should take stock...Promotors should rule the roost and make dramatic changes...not fanny about every season. Every season they send a message out to the fans that something isn't right with the sport, because of the constant tinkering.

 

How you also expect to race in Britain with our weather, and think it's ok to keep cancelling events because of some rain is farcical beyond belief.

 

Has anyone worked out how many cancellations there are in a season yet? Like no other weekly club sport I can tell you.

 

The sooner people realise this the better...looking at how many clubs are struggling and closing and people walking away, I can't grasp how promotors just keep doing the same thing over and over again...utter madness.

 

Sod the riders...If they don't like it...walk away.

 

Clubs and promotors have to take the bull by the horn and change things dramatically.

 

If it means almost starting again then so be it.

 

Expecting a pile of abuse and people making excuses saying it could never happen...but they'll be the one's bemoaning speedway being dead at their track soon.

I would agree with most of what you say

 

Who is happy the sport is dying?

Who is happy to let that happen?

Who has said the sport is doing ok?

Who has abused you?

 

The answer to all of those questions is absolutely no one on this thread, so maybe come down off your high horse.

 

I think it harsh to say the sport needs team suits, even though it does and then for you to say they are awful, that’s a subjective opinion that will differ based on who is spoken to, teams are never going to simply straw poll you alone re how suits should appear.

I think the point here is in most team sports the player etc do tend to look the same ,I have always said s/way is a team sport ridden individuals and body colours and bike covers should be provided by the management .I know that alot of riders have sponsors who want their names etc on show but prehaps there is a compromise could be found somewhere .

Edited April 13, 2016 by FAST GATER

[Gresham]

 

Who is happy the sport is dying?

Who is happy to let that happen?

Who has said the sport is doing ok?

Who has abused you?

 

The answer to all of those questions is absolutely no one on this thread, so maybe come down off your high horse.

 

I think it harsh to say the sport needs team suits, even though it does and then for you to say they are awful, that’s a subjective opinion that will differ based on who is spoken to, teams are never going to simply straw poll you alone re how suits should appear.

I've not said anyone has abused me. Just saying I was expecting it because it was a strongly self opinionated post...and it was you who was 'irked' by the wording of some of my post.

 

I asked you whether you thought the sport was doing ok...I didn't say it was.

 

I'm not on a high horse...just chatting about the pros and cons of speedway and how it could be improved.

 

I'm glad you answered your own questions...because I was not referring to anyone on this thread.

 

I'm more interesting in sparking a debate on what could make the sport better...apologies if my post and how it comes across 'irks' you...not my intention...neither is it to get into a twit for tat pedantic conversation.

 

Regarding team suits...It was just my opinion...which I would say was a given based on me posting it.

 

You haven't given your opinion on them...just an opinion on the idea being subjective. Surely the idea of a forum is for everyone to give their own opinion...and for others to give their own?

 

For what it's worth... the idea of team suits and race jacket (or emblem printed into suit)...is for anyone watching, to CLEARLY recognise on the track when racing as to who is who? Plus to give a feeling of racing for a Club/team rather than a bunch of individuals?

Edited April 13, 2016 by Gresham

[sparkafag]

I've not said anyone has abused me. It was you who mentioned the word abuse...and it was you who was 'irked' by the wording of some of my post.

 

I asked you whether you thought the sport was doing ok...I didn't say it was.

 

I'm not on a high horse...just chatting about the pros and cons of speedway and how it could be improved.

 

I'm glad you answered your own questions...because I was not referring to anyone on this thread.

 

I'm more interesting in sparking a debate on what could make the sport better...apologies if my post and how it comes across 'irks' you...not my intention...neither is it to get into a twit for tat pedantic conversation.

 

Regarding team suits...It was just my opinion...which I would say was a given based on me posting it.

 

You haven't given your opinion on them...just an opinion on the idea being subjective. Surely the idea of a forum is for everyone to give their own opinion...and for others to give their own?

 

For what it's worth... the idea of team suits and race jacket (or emblem printed into suit)...is for anyone watching, to CLEARLY recognise on the track when racing as to who is who? Plus to give a feeling of racing for a Club/team rather than a bunch of individuals?

 

 

You said you expected abuse in response to your original reply despite there being no reason to expect abuse, if anything people on this forum have been supportive of your posting and encouraging you to come back to speedway.

 

Re Team suits, at an EL meeting you will see a team in Lakeside suits (if the riders are racing for Lakeside) v a team in Swindon race suits (if they are racing for Swindon) if you went to a Lakeside v Swindon meeting. If someone isn’t able to identify between the two then they wouldn’t be able to identify between different football kits, rugby kits, NFL kits which would suggest those sports also have an issue with team identity*

 

*like speedway, they don't

 

The suits are actually easier to identity from a distance as from a distance you can barely see most sponsors on the suits.

 

I think they have been a good thing for the most part, more so since the inclusion of a more generic looking bottom end of the suit to enable further clarity when riders guest.

That being said, I think that referencing suits is a nuance in the grand scheme of speedways issues. Issues that I personally don’t think will lead to it “dying” I think that referencing the sport as “dying” is slightly hyperbolic and a term often used to add weight to a point and is a term generally used by people who have walked away from the sport.

I think a sport that can attract 30,000 to a stadia like Cardiff, 4,000 + for Play Off Finals, 6,000 at Belle Vue the other week etc will always have a place and isn’t going to “die” the sport will though have to continue to adjust with fast moving trends to ensure it always finds its market place, which is never going to be where it was during its high water mark days. That doesn’t meant things are “ok” it is however ok to accept that speedway is a lower tier sport in this country that will peak and trough.

Edited April 13, 2016 by sparkafag

[Gresham]

 

 

You said you expected abuse in response to your original reply despite there being no reason to expect abuse, if anything people on this forum have been supportive of your posting and encouraging you to come back to speedway.

 

Re Team suits, at an EL meeting you will see a team in Lakeside suits (if the riders are racing for Lakeside) v a team in Swindon race suits (if they are racing for Swindon) if you went to a Lakeside v Swindon meeting. If someone isn’t able to identify between the two then they wouldn’t be able to identify between different football kits, rugby kits, NFL kits which would suggest those sports also have an issue with team identity*

 

*like speedway, they don't

 

The suits are actually easier to identity from a distance as from a distance you can barely see most sponsors on the suits.

 

I think they have been a good thing for the most part, more so since the inclusion of a more generic looking bottom end of the suit to enable further clarity when riders guest.

That being said, I think that referencing suits is a nuance in the grand scheme of speedways issues. Issues that I personally don’t think will lead to it “dying” I think that referencing the sport as “dying” is slightly hyperbolic and a term often used to add weight to a point and is a term generally used by people who have walked away from the sport.

I think a sport that can attract 30,000 to a stadia like Cardiff, 4,000 + for Play Off Finals, 6,000 at Belle Vue the other week etc will always have a place and isn’t going to “die” the sport will though have to continue to adjust with fast moving trends to ensure it always finds its market place, which is never going to be where it was during its high water mark days. That doesn’t meant things are “ok” it is however ok to accept that speedway is a lower tier sport in this country that will peak and trough.

Appreciate the response...And you are correct, I had no reason to expect abuse based on how people have responded to me. I based it purely on how other threads on this forum have turned out.

 

And yes...I agree...team suits are the least of Speedways worries.

 

As for Speedway 'dying'...I still believe it is in it's domestic form. Based on ever decreasing numbers attending.

 

Interesting that you say 'speedway needs to continue adjusting to fast moving trends'...can you expand what you mean by this?

 

As for Speedway peaking and troughing...I'd be interested to know what you think could make it peak again.

[BWitcher]

Disagreeing with rational counter points is fine...no problem with that...and yes, I've seen the 'team' kevlars. they are bloody awful. Too complicated. Great for a close up photograph...but hopeless when watching a meeting from a distance.

 

 

Are you serious?

 

So, you are claiming that it was easier to identify 'teams' in the 'old days' from a distance that it is now with team kevlars?

 

As with the line "I don't care about the result".. well that makes you a pretty insignificant minority as promoters know that the overwhelming majority of their fan base does care about the result.. and are the most likely to stay away if results go bad.

[Gresham]

 

Are you serious?

 

So, you are claiming that it was easier to identify 'teams' in the 'old days' from a distance that it is now with team kevlars?

 

As with the line "I don't care about the result".. well that makes you a pretty insignificant minority as promoters know that the overwhelming majority of their fan base does care about the result.. and are the most likely to stay away if results go bad.

Yes it was easier...from a distance, with the amount of advertising on the suits, added to the mass of colours on the bike covers...then it becomes just a blur of different colours.

 

Plain and simple...is both striking and outstanding from a distance.

 

Of course 'results' matter but not at the expense of other parts of the sport.

 

'The overwhelming majority of fans' left, who care mainly about the result...are the minority of the ones who have walked away from the sport, because results at all costs are a major factor to why attendances are dropping.

[sparkafag]

Appreciate the response...And you are correct, I had no reason to expect abuse based on how people have responded to me. I based it purely on how other threads on this forum have turned out.

 

And yes...I agree...team suits are the least of Speedways worries.

 

As for Speedway 'dying'...I still believe it is in it's domestic form. Based on ever decreasing numbers attending.

 

Interesting that you say 'speedway needs to continue adjusting to fast moving trends'...can you expand what you mean by this?

 

As for Speedway peaking and troughing...I'd be interested to know what you think could make it peak again.

 

 

Speedway, lower league Football, cinema etc, in fact any form of entertainment that was previously seen as a weekly experience faces far more competition now than it ever has.

 

As a global population there are more forms of entertainment available to us all now than there ever has been before.

 

It is now possible for people to watch a game of football from anywhere in the world in their own home rather than attending a speedway meeting, to watch a film that is premiering at the cinema from their own home rather than attend a speedway meeting. The standard of TV show available from streaming services like Netflix or on Sky Atlantic is at a level it has never been before, these are all things people can chose to do rather than attend a speedway meeting.

 

These are the trends speedway has to move with and adapt around and could do more of via better social interaction and a more modern presentation of the sport (team suits alone isn’t enough the entire product needs a more “night out/darts” feel to it IMO, appreciate others will disagree).

 

Consider all of those things and then consider the changing demographic of a typical family relationship now compared to 15/20/30 years ago eg the man of the house having to spend more time with the family than ever before and then you can see why attendances have massively dropped since the 80s but have remained consistently around that drop for nearly 20 years now since 2000s, thus that is the regression to the mean for the sport. It is a sport that attracts bang average/low attendances but does attract an audience and continues to, it is just that the lower crowds are now the norm rather than an irregularity and the sport has “lived” with that for kicking on 10 + years now.

 

I doubt things like FTR, Guests, RR etc are going to massively impact crowds because only about 0.000001% of the population actually care about those things (albeit I appreciate those that do care have a passionate care of the subjects). I think the things that will make it peak within that market will be, quite often dependant on the weather that season (not something that can be controlled but given it is a summer sport it is a massive factor in the direction a season goes) the way it is priced, I think it is overpriced given the other options available and also the balance of sides at the start of the season, eg, I think this season will impact a lot of drifting fans in the EL, although probably not at tracks like Poole, Belle Vue, Swindon, Wolves, Lakeside where it looks like they will have a “good season”. I don’t think you will ever see a massive increase in attendances again but simply sliding scales within the 500/3,000 market dependant where you are in the country and the season the side is having, and given it has now done that for 10 + years I don't see why it would suddenly die out because of that in the short term at least.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by sparkafag

[Gresham]

 

 

Speedway, lower league Football, cinema etc, in fact any form of entertainment that was previously seen as a weekly experience faces far more competition now than it ever has.

 

As a global population there are more forms of entertainment available to us all now than there ever has been before.

 

It is now possible for people to watch a game of football from anywhere in the world in their own home rather than attending a speedway meeting, to watch a film that is premiering at the cinema from their own home rather than attend a speedway meeting. The standard of TV show available from streaming services like Netflix or on Sky Atlantic is at a level it has never been before, these are all things people can chose to do rather than attend a speedway meeting. I totally agree...there is more competition. Yet, even though football and film is easily accessible via TV...there is now a slow increase in attendances. New Cinema complex's are still being open...one near me only next month. Both my local football teams, one league and one non league, have increases in attendances and both expanding their stadiums.

 

These are the trends speedway has to move with and adapt around and could do more of via better social interaction and a more modern presentation of the sport (team suits alone isn’t enough the entire product needs a more “night out/darts” feel to it IMO, appreciate others will disagree).

 

​ Modern presentation is one thing I agree with ( seeing a band and St Johns Ambulance marching out at Bell Vue a few years back made me cringe ) and my then girlfriend reel in horror. However...it's the constant tinkering and trying to look 'modern' that has taken away from the simplicity and original charm of the sport.

 

Consider all of those things and then consider the changing demographic of a typical family relationship now compared to 15/20/30 years ago eg the man of the house having to spend more time with the family than ever before and then you can see why attendances have massively dropped since the 80s but have remained consistently around that drop for nearly 20 years now since 2000s, thus that is the regression to the mean for the sport. It is a sport that attracts bang average/low attendances but does attract an audience and continues to, it is just that the lower crowds are now the norm rather than an irregularity and the sport has “lived” with that for kicking on 10 + years now.

 

Very valid...plus I would say transport and getting to tracks and cost of that is also a deciding factor. Traffic on the M4/5 for me has a deciding factor on whether I can get to a meeting or not on time.​

 

I doubt things like FTR, Guests, RR etc are going to massively impact crowds because only about 0.000001% of the population actually care about those things (albeit I appreciate those that do care have a passionate care of the subjects). I think the things that will make it peak within that market will be, quite often dependant on the weather that season (not something that can be controlled but given it is a summer sport it is a massive factor in the direction a season goes) the way it is priced, I think it is overpriced given the other options available and also the balance of sides at the start of the season, eg, I think this season will impact a lot of drifting fans in the EL, although probably not at tracks like Poole, Belle Vue, Swindon, Wolves, Lakeside where it looks like they will have a “good season”. I don’t think you will ever see a massive increase in attendances again but simply sliding scales within the 500/3,000 market dependant where you are in the country and the season the side is having, and given it has now done that for 10 + years I don't see why it would suddenly die out because of that in the short term at least.

​I think the tinkering and certain aspects of the rules have definitely had negative effect on many speedway fans, and been part of the reason many have given up going. As for the weather...it's ridiculous that a sport has been going this long and hasn't found a way of protecting the surface. Imo...taking dirt off the track and the introduction of lay down engines haven't helped in this matter. I agree there won't be a massive increase like we had before...but something needs to be done to stop attendances dropping. We all know to well how hard it is to get a club going again once it's closed.