Sings4Speedway Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Actually...yes I would prefer to see a Junior rider move up in to the 7. Like many other sports...injuries take place, and the club have to use a 'squad' member to replace that injured team member. Why does it make it less a spectacle? If anything...it does the opposite. The fans get behind the replacement rider and urge him to do well...knowing it's a struggle. You watch that rider doing his best...hopefully improving, and getting better with each ride and gaining invaluable experience. Plus we have rules in place where tactical rides can be taken from other riders. So I don't see a problem. Your last sentence is very relevant though...and another reason why the rulebook needs to be torn up and started again. Funnily enough ive just had a rant on a NL thread about the very same thing. RR gets up my nose. It slows the flow of meetings down and is often abused by teams. Limit it to twice at home and twice away to cover for late notice withdrawals then use unattached guests (within that league i.e NL riders for PL) to cover. Teams can shuffle the order if they like and put a reserve in for the missing rider and then the NL rider at reserve or whatever. Whilst they may not score the first time out they will gain experience and improve for later appearances. Lets not forget that next season there is a chance teams will be on the lookout for 3 pointers again so makes sense to build contacts and assess ability levels early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nicki Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I'm sure Scunny are 'steeling' themselves for an improvement in attendances now!! Is this meant to be funny? I know what you mean, at Leicester on Saturday, there was a rider there that was not in either the Leicester or Belle Vue line up, we did have a MDL encounter, Long Eaton Invaders v Belle Vue Colts after the EL match. I will not name him, I don't want to embarrass the lad, but he had a fairly new, fully sign written van, with: First Name, Surname RACING emblazoned all over the van. Now, I am not knocking the fact he had a van, but it just goes to show how the younger generation of would be riders prioritise equipment!! Why not name names? If its who I think you are alluding to, you only have to see who he is related to. And, as has been said, if he can go out and get a van sponsor, good luck to him. I think the fact that Scunthorpe drew their opening home match, lost the next one and then weakened their line up might have something to do with it. Sadly, all speedway fans aren't happy with top quality racing (because EWR is the best in the country) and want a winning team. And of course, if you are aware of what is happening locally to Scunthorpe at present, you would appreciate the effect it is having on the local economy, particularly with a population of 72,500 - hardly an urban conurbation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Where as I'd prefer to see riders of similar standard racing and if that means 6 riders in the team and 4 of them take an extra ride that works for me. Why 7 riders? It's an arbitrary figure. There are 15 heats with 2 riders in each so why not 30 riders in a team? Why is 6 bad for you but 7 good? The pits would get very crowded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 And of course, if you are aware of what is happening locally to Scunthorpe at present, you would appreciate the effect it is having on the local economy, particularly with a population of 72,500 - hardly an urban conurbation. Reading the paper this morning, jobs at Scunthorpe Steel Works are almost certainly safe as that site has been purchased. Without being sarcastic or cynical, I doubt the attendances will increase next time despite that assurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) Actually...yes I would prefer to see a Junior rider move up in to the 7. Like many other sports...injuries take place, and the club have to use a 'squad' member to replace that injured team member. Why does it make it less a spectacle? If anything...it does the opposite. The fans get behind the replacement rider and urge him to do well...knowing it's a struggle. You watch that rider doing his best...hopefully improving, and getting better with each ride and gaining invaluable experience. Plus we have rules in place where tactical rides can be taken from other riders. So I don't see a problem. Your last sentence is very relevant though...and another reason why the rulebook needs to be torn up and started again. So if Jason Doyle is replaced by a junior on Thursday for Swindon v Wolves the match will be a better spectacle ....speedway fans wonder why they are not listened to ...with your logic you can see why . Edited April 12, 2016 by orion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nicki Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Reading the paper this morning, jobs at Scunthorpe Steel Works are almost certainly safe as that site has been purchased. Without being sarcastic or cynical, I doubt the attendances will increase next time despite that assurance. Time will tell, HT. I have 'been there' too many times before to believe that all the jobs will exist still in a years time and with this in mind, most of the local folk will be sensible and review their spending patterns. The normal rhetoric is 'all jobs are safe' but after a 'business review' by the new owners a different outcome occurs. With such a low local population any distress will have an affect. On that basis, I would agree that it is doubtful that attendances will increase significantly in the near future. It is more important at the EWR than some other venues that visiting fans attend and enjoy the racing provided there. As you are someone who is able to travel around the country and attend matches at different venues, your views are always valuable and no doubt you will be able to compare Scunthorpe's speedway attendances logically against attendance patterns at other tracks better than most and more accurately than other posters on here, especially the Birmingham poster who, on another thread, was comparing attendances there with those when he visited the EWR. All I can say is that I am pleased that speedway exists still in Scunthorpe and am grateful to Rob Godfrey and all the others involved in making this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Actually...yes I would prefer to see a Junior rider move up in to the 7. Like many other sports...injuries take place, and the club have to use a 'squad' member to replace that injured team member. Why does it make it less a spectacle? If anything...it does the opposite. The fans get behind the replacement rider and urge him to do well...knowing it's a struggle. You watch that rider doing his best...hopefully improving, and getting better with each ride and gaining invaluable experience. Plus we have rules in place where tactical rides can be taken from other riders. So I don't see a problem. Your last sentence is very relevant though...and another reason why the rulebook needs to be torn up and started again. So you prefer to see a rider tailed off way at the back with zero chance of scoring a pt. Marvelous! That will pack the fans in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviresco Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 So you prefer to see a rider tailed off way at the back with zero chance of scoring a pt. Marvelous! That will pack the fans in. I always enjoyed it when Ipswich, under John Berry's promotion, declined the use of guests and either operated RR or promoted a junior into the team, even for a missing Heat Leader. They were almost always local lads that the fans could associate with and could view their progress and support their efforts. A few decent riders started off their top league careers like this. Not comparing like with like of course, as speedway, and attitudes towards it, are different now compared to those days. More riders available, etc. But at least the philosophy then didn't stop the Witches winning back to back Titles in 1975/76 and certainly didn't harm the development of those less experienced riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I always enjoyed it when Ipswich, under John Berry's promotion, declined the use of guests and either operated RR or promoted a junior into the team, even for a missing Heat Leader. They were almost always local lads that the fans could associate with and could view their progress and support their efforts. A few decent riders started off their top league careers like this. Not comparing like with like of course, as speedway, and attitudes towards it, are different now compared to those days. More riders available, etc. But at least the philosophy then didn't stop the Witches winning back to back Titles in 1975/76 and certainly didn't harm the development of those less experienced riders. Which brings us back to the age old myth of how great riders were back in the day.. They weren't and posts like this just further enforce that fact. It's why juniors could come into teams and be competitive. The gap is massive now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 How many people should be attending Speedway meetings in an area like Scunthorpe (not to pick on them) it is an area where unemployment is high and an area of austerity. If there was 700/800/900 + attending would this be enough? What sports are being used as a comparison when it is referenced that 450 people attending? I don't know how many people should be attending Pl fixture but at today's costs and riders pay rates 450 probably means it is not a viable size of crowd for the Club to survive without money from other sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I'd much prefer R/R to guests! At least its still the riders that actually represent your team taking the rides. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I don't know how many people should be attending Pl fixture but at today's costs and riders pay rates 450 probably means it is not a viable size of crowd for the Club to survive without money from other sources. Is that not entirely presumptuous though? In that the “costs” involved aren’t something that’s openly published and riders pay rates definitely aren’t open to the public I think the sport in this country is in a state as it is without fans simply guestimating the amount of money actually required to put on a speedway meeting or deciding based on very little what is viable or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Is that not entirely presumptuous though? In that the “costs” involved aren’t something that’s openly published and riders pay rates definitely aren’t open to the public I think the sport in this country is in a state as it is without fans simply guestimating the amount of money actually required to put on a speedway meeting or deciding based on very little what is viable or not. If you say so!.Suppose I have to presume the riders are just entertaining the fans as a hobby and for the fun of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 If you say so!.Suppose I have to presume the riders are just entertaining the fans as a hobby and for the fun of it. No, I haven’t said so because I don’t know, hence I asked, nor do I think riders do it as a hobby I think it is pretty natural to think they are paid but I don't know the figures or "costs" involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 No, I haven’t said so because I don’t know, hence I asked, nor do I think riders do it as a hobby I think it is pretty natural to think they are paid but I don't know the figures or "costs" involved. That is a rather naive way of looking at considering you seem to know a lot about the sport.IMO.Still " no worries" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 That is a rather naive way of looking at considering you seem to know a lot about the sport.IMO.Still " no worries" It is a forum discussion I haven't once been concerned about it let alone worried.... It would be naïve of me to assume I know how much it costs to run a speedway meeting. I don’t know how much it costs to have programmes printed let alone what it costs for catering, health and safety , ambulance crew, stadium running costs, average income/outgoings for a meeting or any additional income paid for catering/drinks etc, hence asking to see if anyone did know, or had a rough idea re what is sustainable for a side rather than just making wild sweeping claims about costs and knowing what everyone seemingly knows re what riders are paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Funnily enough ive just had a rant on a NL thread about the very same thing. RR gets up my nose. It slows the flow of meetings down and is often abused by teams. Limit it to twice at home and twice away to cover for late notice withdrawals then use unattached guests (within that league i.e NL riders for PL) to cover. Teams can shuffle the order if they like and put a reserve in for the missing rider and then the NL rider at reserve or whatever. Whilst they may not score the first time out they will gain experience and improve for later appearances. Lets not forget that next season there is a chance teams will be on the lookout for 3 pointers again so makes sense to build contacts and assess ability levels early. And when your team loses at home due in part to a low scoring junior, what would your feelings being then. R/R has problems, but other suggestions carry greater probs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nicki Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 And when your team loses at home due in part to a low scoring junior, what would your feelings being then. R/R has problems, but other suggestions carry greater probs. I don't know about S4K, but personally it wouldn't bother me that much, as winning isn't everything for me. Yes, I like to see the team / rider I am supporting do well, but is not the be all and end all. Then, given some of the teams and riders that I have followed over the years, it is probably a good job that winning isn't everything to me. Each to their own of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 It is a forum discussion I haven't once been concerned about it let alone worried.... It would be naïve of me to assume I know how much it costs to run a speedway meeting. I don’t know how much it costs to have programmes printed let alone what it costs for catering, health and safety , ambulance crew, stadium running costs, average income/outgoings for a meeting or any additional income paid for catering/drinks etc, hence asking to see if anyone did know, or had a rough idea re what is sustainable for a side rather than just making wild sweeping claims about costs and knowing what everyone seemingly knows re what riders are paid. EdinburghGlasgow Redcar Scunthorpe Plymouth Berwick These clubs have appealed to their fans in recent seasons that they were having financial difficulties running their tracks on crowd numbers so I assume it costs a fair amount to run a meeting, so 450 at Scunthorpe is a starting point .Plymouth stated a few weeks ago that 450 was not viable and closed.Fans and a Consortium have took over the running now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Edinburgh Glasgow Redcar Scunthorpe Plymouth Berwick These clubs have appealed to their fans in recent seasons that they were having financial difficulties running their tracks on crowd numbers so I assume it costs a fair amount to run a meeting, so 450 at Scunthorpe is a starting point .Plymouth stated a few weeks ago that 450 was not viable and closed.Fans and a Consortium have took over the running now though. Would it not just be easier (and far less time consuming) to say you don’t know how many people should be attending speedway at Scunthorpe in order to make it viable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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