Mark Posted April 8, 2016 Report Share Posted April 8, 2016 Poole reserves got 17 from 40 at Lakeside tonight. Not sure the formula is right. Poole lost but the reserves should have so much point scoring ability in a meeting. Maybe they need to meet better riders more often ? The Poole reserves will win them loads of meetings. Not anti Poole. Well done for hiring two top riders. But I want competitive sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Reserves have always been important , nothing to add. Nothing new to see here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Reserves have always been important , nothing to add. Nothing new to see here. Except that you at least had a chance of replacing an underperformIng reserve with someone better. Now if you're screwed in the draft because they use PL averages you're screwed for the season. Edited April 9, 2016 by Aces51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Except that you at least had a chance of replacing an underperformIng reserve with someone better. Now if you're screwed in the draft because they use PL averages you're screwed for the season. Agreed, that's the only difference. Reserves winning teams meetings is yonks old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) the strong reserve gains a lot more significance when he is stronger than a rider in the top 5 , therefore allowing the reserve to take extra rides.... if poole time it right this year they could go into the playoffs with probably watt at reserve Edited April 9, 2016 by heathen chemistry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 the strong reserve gains a lot more significance when he is stronger than a rider in the top 5 , therefore allowing the reserve to take extra rides.... if poole time it right this year they could go into the playoffs with probably watt at reserve Same as it's always been. No one has forgotten the super young talents on a fake 4 point average that dominated championship winning teams year after year. Soon as they moved up (after 12 matches much more advantage than now) a main team strong rider replaced them. So nothing new. They also used to have 5 - 7 rides a match. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Same as it's always been. No one has forgotten the super young talents on a fake 4 point average that dominated championship winning teams year after year. Soon as they moved up (after 12 matches much more advantage than now) a main team strong rider replaced them. So nothing new. They also used to have 5 - 7 rides a match. But they didn't have protected heats and only riding against second strings which makes their points scoring easier - so it is something new! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 But they didn't have protected heats and only riding against second strings which makes their points scoring easier - so it is something new! That of course is the only difference and it's obvious that the much better reserves of any era will have a huge influence on the title hopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 That of course is the only difference and it's obvious that the much better reserves of any era will have a huge influence on the title hopes. It's quite a significant difference though!! It guaranteed points - as you will see with Howarth this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 It's quite a significant difference though!! It guaranteed points - as you will see with Howarth this season I agree , the formula allows the better reserves to score heavily and those with poorer reserves will always be left wanting. Having had poor reserves since the draft started (despite us landing Blackbird in the 1st draft season and that just didn't work out) it's our turn to get the benefits that Poole and Coventry - and also Belle Vue, have had from the off. It's time for the tier ones to move up, rightly so. However the bigger issue for me is once Newman, Worrall, Howarth as examples finish the season on true averages of probably well over 5 (probably much higher) will EL clubs employ them in 2017?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Unless they spend the majority of the season in the top 5 their averages will, as last year, be totally false because of the protected heats. Nobody is going to sign Newman next year or, any of the others, as a heat leader on a false average of 8. If they are to move up there will have to be a conversion factor to make their averages realistic. I hear Poole might suggest they use their PL average. As for Belle Vue having always had the benefit of good reserves from the draft, Remember Nielsen and Reade in the first year and what about this year? Hopefully, Jacobs is going to improve, I think he will but at the moment the likes of Poole, Leicester and Wolverhampton are stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Re reserves, why don't they not take into account the protected heats in working out their averages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 Re reserves, why don't they not take into account the protected heats in working out their averages?Because they are not smart enough.. such a system should have been in place from day (for all riders not justcreserves) of tye new heat format. SCB for example worked out a weighting system to do this. Anyone with a brain and rudimentary maths understanding could do it, sadly through bspa appear mot to have anyone who meet that criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 They certainly ought to have had a better way of working out averages for sure to stop all the over/underestimation. Really ain't rocket science to keep things right and fair ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces51 Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 They could have used their EL averages as they stood to work out the rider order in the draft lists and then an easily worked out conversion factor for team building. I know that officially reserves didn't get an EL average but it wouldn't have taken much working out, all of the statistics were there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Because they are not smart enough.. such a system should have been in place from day (for all riders not justcreserves) of tye new heat format. SCB for example worked out a weighting system to do this. Anyone with a brain and rudimentary maths understanding could do it, sadly through bspa appear mot to have anyone who meet that criteria. Indeed, and that is what Poland used to do a few years ago - averages excluded the reserves races (and also a rider's best two and worst two scores over the last 8 matches) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 People seem to be forgetting that averages will change/be updated every 2 weeks through the season. If Kyle Newman does finish on an 8 point average then he will be worth a top 5 place the following year (and another top 5 rider may well be on a steal of an average for 2017) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Except that you at least had a chance of replacing an underperformIng reserve with someone better. Now if you're screwed in the draft because they use PL averages you're screwed for the season. That, to my mind is the one serious weakness of the system and one which affected Lakeside seriously last year when Ashley Birks was injured. I don't think there is any way round it as long as you have an EDR system. The problem arises because, as I have always said, the gap between the best and the worst is two great. I thought Mick Horton was very honest in Speedwáy Star this week when he said that they all knew int was morally wrong to include riders like Newman, Howarth etc in the draft but it was done because of the shortage and quality of riders needed for the Elite League. This is the root of the problem, not enough quality riders gaining the experience for rapid promotion. This problem of shortage of riders seems to be being addressed. In the last couple of years youngsters from the training school have been riding at Lakeside before the main event and I have been amazed at the progress some have been making, like 10 year old Sam Hagon , but unfortunately it will be a few years before any of these are old enough or good enough to gi into the EDR. Until then we have to put up with an imperfect system or ditch it completely. I woukd say though that the order of the draft pick needs to be sorted. It is ridiculous that the team finishing top one year gets the best EDR the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 People seem to be forgetting that averages will change/be updated every 2 weeks through the season. If Kyle Newman does finish on an 8 point average then he will be worth a top 5 place the following year (and another top 5 rider may well be on a steal of an average for 2017) If Newman finishes with an 8 average that's his EL career fooked in an instant as no club will touch him, including Poole 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bump Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 As a supporter of Leicester, I can't honestly say our admittedly strong reserve pairing have helped us have a change in fortune. We still lose matches. Alot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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