BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 No point talking about "any incident",we are talking about this incident,and I agree with the ref.He got it right.Dudek doesn't stop as you said He wasn't anywhere near racing speed, was a danger to others and the cause of the stoppage. It wasn't his fault that Kildemand hit him, it wasn't Kildemand's fault that Dudek was slowing so dramatically. However it was Dudek's slowing that caused the incident to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Just after the 4' mark it appears to me Yellow hit Blue whilst overtaking. As Orion posted, you can see it from both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 He wasn't anywhere near racing speed, was a danger to others and the cause of the stoppage. It wasn't his fault that Kildemand hit him, it wasn't Kildemand's fault that Dudek was slowing so dramatically. However it was Dudek's slowing that caused the incident to happen. Like I said,at no time is Dudek not in the race and a rider behind just can't slam into someone who is in a race.Kildemand can't really be faulted,but you can't say "i didn't see him" as a get out.Now if Dudek had changed his path then imo I am sure the ref would have made a different decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) Like I said,at no time is Dudek not in the race and a rider behind just can't slam into someone who is in a race.Kildemand can't really be faulted,but you can't say "i didn't see him" as a get out.Now if Dudek had changed his path then imo I am sure the ref would have made a different decision So to make it clear, you are saying if a riders bike fails or they slow dramtically, and another rider hits them as a result, its not the fault of the rider whose bike has failed or slowed? Interesting. How do you explain in that case when a rider locks up in a corner, the rider behind hits him.. and the rider who locks up gets excluded? He's still in the race.... Edited April 5, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 So to make it clear, you are saying if a riders bike fails or they slow dramtically, and another rider hits them as a result, its not the fault of the rider whose bike has failed or slowed? Interesting. How do you explain in that case when a rider locks up in a corner, the rider behind hits him.. and the rider who locks up gets excluded? He's still in the race.... Thought I already made it clear we are talking about this incident.You want to talk about theoretical or past incidents then talk about them on those threads.At no time does Dudek lose control or make a mistake as in other incidents that are different to this one.simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 The referee got it right . Patrick Dudek was in trouble and pulled to the outside and raised his hand to say he was i trouble. At the time he was in second place and pulled to the outside. Then Peter kilderman ploughed into the back of him. so PK should be excluded.As PD was still under power he should not be excluded. Good decision by the referee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawkins20 Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Like I said,at no time is Dudek not in the race and a rider behind just can't slam into someone who is in a race.Kildemand can't really be faulted,but you can't say "i didn't see him" as a get out.Now if Dudek had changed his path then imo I am sure the ref would have made a different decision His bike failed, im sure there is rule that if a riders bike fails to work properly, (losts power) he should put his hands up but most importantly leave the track asap, cause he is a danger to all the other riders who thinks he is going with racing speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) Thought I already made it clear we are talking about this incident.You want to talk about theoretical or past incidents then talk about them on those threads.At no time does Dudek lose control or make a mistake as in other incidents that are different to this one.simple No he just slows dramatically which causes the incident. You can't dismiss 'theoretical or past incidents' when we are discussing rules as none of them back up your argument. Edited April 5, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 His bike failed, im sure there is rule that if a riders bike fails to work properly, (losts power) he should put his hands up but most importantly leave the track asap, cause he is a danger to all the other riders who thinks he is going with racing speed. For sure he should put his hand up to warn following riders,but he can then see if he can get the bike going again and continue with the race.At the point PK hits him he is still in the race.He would only be out of it at the point when he leaves the track or gets lapped if he decides to poodle round and try to get going.Of course if he thinks he can push the bike to gain a point he can also do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Hard to blame anyone there imo. Unfortunately someone had to go and it was unlikely to be the Pole... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) I cant believe people say it was the right decision. Ok say Dudek lost power like he did and Kildemand was right behind him, literally on his exhaust, and ploughs into him. Surely then the cause of the stoppage is Dudek and not the rider right behind him who had nowhere to go!!!! The only difference here is Kildemand was further back but the cause of the stoppage was Dudek stopping and because he stopped a rider hit him who blatantly couldnt see him. Edited April 5, 2016 by Gavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Hard to blame anyone there imo. Unfortunately someone had to go and it was unlikely to be the Pole... Spot on ..one of those where a ref has to exclude someone due to the rules but would rather not have to do so ,as no one is at fault . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 If you weren`t watching the Edward Jancarz meeting from Gorzow on Sunday have a look at heat 13 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoLbppC6IyQ Dudek is in Blue and Kildemand in Yellow- Who should have been Excluded ?? Glad there both ok. Dudek definately.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) Spot on ..one of those where a ref has to exclude someone due to the rules but would rather not have to do so ,as no one is at fault . Of course Dudek is at fault, he's slowed right down bang on the racing line. Not deliberately and technically it was his bikes fault... but he is responsible for his bike. The very fact that other riders had to take evasive action means he has impeded riders and can therefore be excluded for 'dangerous riding'. Edited April 5, 2016 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Spot on ..one of those where a ref has to exclude someone due to the rules but would rather not have to do so ,as no one is at fault . Primary cause of the stoppage. Dudeks bike packing up was the primary reason. Kildemand hitting him was secondary. Without the bike failing the race would have carried on. As i say who would have been excluded if Kildemand was RIGHT behind him and hit him??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Primary cause of the stoppage. Dudeks bike packing up was the primary reason. Kildemand hitting him was secondary. Without the bike failing the race would have carried on. As i say who would have been excluded if Kildemand was RIGHT behind him and hit him??? Or if one of the riders who had to take evasive action behind him, turned into another one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Dudek did nothing wrong. He pulled over and raised his hands to signal an ef. Unfortunately Kildemands view was blocked and he didnt see Dudek until it was too late and the crash ensued. The cause of the crash is Dudek, as he stopped racing due to an ef and not Kildemand who was the innocent victim of Dudeks ef. So Dudek is to blame for causing the stoppage, as if he was under power the crash would not have occured. I was watching it live and was disgusted at the refs call. Whether Dudek was still rolling or not he was clearly not under power and therefore the cause of the whole incident. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Dudek did nothing wrong. He pulled over and raised his hands to signal an ef. Unfortunately Kildemands view was blocked and he didnt see Dudek until it was too late and the crash ensued. The cause of the crash is Dudek, as he stopped racing due to an ef and not Kildemand who was the innocent victim of Dudeks ef. So Dudek is to blame for causing the stoppage, as if he was under power the crash would not have occured. I was watching it live and was disgusted at the refs call. Whether Dudek was still rolling or not he was clearly not under power and therefore the cause of the whole incident. 100% correct. Absolutely no other way to call it. It is very dangerous to slow on a straight like that, hence why they put their hand up. As such it was dangerous riding from Dudek, intentional or not and he was the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke Potter Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Primary cause of the stoppage. Dudeks bike packing up was the primary reason. Kildemand hitting him was secondary. Without the bike failing the race would have carried on. As i say who would have been excluded if Kildemand was RIGHT behind him and hit him??? Total rubbish. The bike failing did not stop the race. The race would've continued if PK hadn't hit him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Total rubbish. The bike failing did not stop the race. The race would've continued if PK hadn't hit him. PK hit him because it failed. It's not complicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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