Helicopter View

[orion]

No team can survive if expenditure significantly exceeds income unless the promoter can afford to write off the losses.

 

Arguments about whether the loss of top riders has contributed to the drop in attendance or, whether they pay for themselves by attracting sufficient extra people through the gate, are irrelevant. The fact is that there is not sufficient money in the sport to afford them.

 

Crowds have been falling since the 1980's, long before the top riders left. Riders like Darcy and Emil will attract extra fans in the short term but not once the novelty has worn off. My experience is that the absence of Zagar makes little, if any, difference to the crowds at Belle Vue, far more significant is the strength and current form of the visiting team.

 

Clubs literally cannot afford to speculate to accumulate, the risks are too great when many are already making a loss. The only way forward is to live within their means. They must create a genuine and workable system of team equalisation, do everything possible to encourage British talent, improve presentation and the timely completion of meetings, make the sport more credible by getting rid of the absurd tactical ride, doubling up and minimising the use of guests and rewrite the rule book and enforce it fairly and consistently, no more in the best interests of the sport exceptions. They must find affordable ways of making the public at large aware that the sport still exists.

Yet again as have been explained teams like Plymouth etc have no top riders but find themselves in trouble while teams like poole have and pay top money and make a profit .....it's lazy thinking just to say we can't afford top riders ....the bottom line and the only hope is that we get more fans in and just like anything the only way is to make the standard better .

[robert72]

Speedway is far too expensive for just 15 races at £21 that's without the cost of getting there plus add a burger & a drink,

 

They wonder why crowds are low

[orion]

Pl football is 60 plus food and drink but its pack every week . If the product is right people will pay .

[Daniel Smith]

Speedway is far too expensive for just 15 races at £21 that's without the cost of getting there plus add a burger & a drink,

 

They wonder why crowds are low

I use to say that but it's actually not true. It's more about the VFM.

 

Game is changing in that alot of rider's train like athletes and their machinery is of exceptional high standard. This in turn allows the rider's to make fewer & fewer mistakes.

 

Add to that, tracks today are billiard tables

 

Thus meaning 9/10 times races are done after the 1st lap.

 

Most action on track that happens after the first lap tends to be because someone's machine is a little faster than another.

 

Thinking about it, having identical standard bikes could make the situation worse and totally rely on gating.

 

What speedway needs, for every track to have the dirt about 2" deep all over.

That would make things much more exciting and set out the men from the boys & imo deliver the VFM needed then £17 wouldn't be a problem.

[SCB]

I would be suprised if that was the case.

I bet Cradley, Birmingham and Eastbourne are 3 of the most successful club in GB speedway in terms of making money!

[Grachan]

Speedway is far too expensive for just 15 races at £21 that's without the cost of getting there plus add a burger & a drink,

 

They wonder why crowds are low

It's not £21. It's £17.

 

Food has notihng to do with it. You're going to eat whether you go or not. Nothing to stop you having dinner before hand.

 

I'm one of those people who has been going to speedway for many years. Originally as a die-hard fan. Nowadays as a more casual fan. Some times in between I had years where I never went at all.

 

For me it's always been whether or not it is appealing at that time.

 

I remember Swindon dropping down to the Premier League (or whatever it was then) in the early 1990s. We signed Jason Crump. I was interested. The following season Crump wasn't there. I lost interest.

 

Even at a lower level you need exciting or interesting riders to keep you interested. For me this is especially true at the lower level. I went to a Swindon v Gasgow match a few years later and I was shocked at the low crowd and lack of atmosphere.

 

I know a lot of Swindon fans liked the PL era, but it never interested me at all once Crump was gone.

 

It's nonsense to say that the standard of rider has no effect on the crowd. It has been plain to see at Swindon. Once we came back up, crowds gradually increased with the strength of the side. Then decreased again as sides became weaker.

 

When the sport was held to ransom by lower clubs demanding low points limits and tactical rides, crowds visibly dropped the following season. That was the one time for me when it was more than just a gradual decrease. It was quite an exodus.

 

People DO care about who is riding and what is going on off the track.

 

It is a pet hate of mine that people thing speedway should only exist at the lower levels in this country. How can making the sport appealling to less people be the answer.

 

If EL sides are run well, they will get decent crowds. Poole are run well. They get good crowds. I think Swindon is run pretty well compared to other clubs, and their crowds remain reasonable in the current climate.

[sparkafag]

What is a fair price for Speedway? In Edinburgh (not to pick on them just using them as an example) you could go and see the following..

 

Top flight football for £24.00 (in very decent facilities and in the city centre)

Pro 12 Rugby for £20.00 (in a National stadium in the city centre)

Second tier football for £22.00 (in very decent facilities in the city centre)

Concert average about £20 (in varying but generally decent facilities in the city centre)

Ice Hockey for £16.00 (in decent facilities in the city centre)

Speedway for £15.00 (45 minutes from the city with a poorish transport network and poor facilities)

Meal in a decent location £10-£15.00

Cinema £9.00

[semion]

Speedway certainly has not kept pace with other forms of entertainment it competes with for the Consumer's £. Look at things such as Multiplex Cinema's Bowling Alley's Theme park's and of course other Sporting forms of entertainment. It's a different world in terms of Entertainment than it was back in the day when Speedway was packing them in.

 

When Chapman Junior was involved in his Father's Business' both Speedway and indeed Football he certainly recognised that and was very much pro-active in trying to drag both Sports ( maybe kicking and screaming) into the modern era. Sadly for whatever reason he left to pursue other area's. Maybe he could see the future and knew he was fighting a losing battle. I understand that the Football when he was involved was pulling in gates, at times of in excess of 1,000 people. Recently the gates have been in the region of a little over 300.

 

Now I'm not one for blowing smoke up anyone's ass, but Speedway allowed someone with vision and for sight to leave. They should have been bending over backwards to keep him on board. I am not talking about Buster here( although he should have as well), but the BSPA. He brought a freshness to all the shared events, that sadly has been allowed to slip away and return to the back to the bad old days.

 

Lets hope when the next person comes along who has a clear understanding of what is needed that the BSPA embrace him/her and give him/her their full support and backing.

 

JC... make sure the cheque goes in the post tonight.

[Mick Bratley]

I pretty much agree with everything JC is saying here.

 

The only thing I would partially disagree with is his thoughts on SKY TV. There is no doubt in my mind that SKY continue to get British Speedway VERY cheaply and that they have done hardly anything to promote British Speedway in the same way that they have done for say Rugby League. Would it even hurt SKY to advertise the forthcoming transmission of a Speedway meeting either during the slots before, at half time or even after the Sunday afternoon Premier League matches? I've never seen it. In my opinion, to SKY, Speedway is nothing more than something that is a cheap filler in their schedule.

 

They are not completely to blame though, I think whoever from British Speedway deals with SKY these days should be pushing more to get a much better relationship with them, particularly in promoting the sport. It hasn't happened and I can't see that changing anytime soon. SKY's involvement with British Speedway has been a massive missed opportunity.

 

This could of course change if BT make a success of the GP coverage, if so, there is no doubt they will want to cover the domestic British League. This could get interesting and could prove a big turning point for the sport in the UK IF and that is a massive IF it is handled correctly. Sadly I have no confidence in anyone involved in British Speedway being able to handle it correctly in a way that benefits British Speedway.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Mick Bratley

[stevehone]

I won't have much input on this thread but I will say the reason I go to speedway is to see good racing, results are secondary, but my biggest issues with the sport currently is the double up/down rule, and the fast track allocation.

 

i'll be honest and say I go to meetings and I don't know who are in the teams because I can't keep up with all the chopping and changing.

I know people have mentioned about the old days where you would have riders that stayed with the same club, and that allowed fans to have a familiarity with the club they supported and in turn that helps for sponsorship.

I don't care about the b&w helmet rule, it's there for everyone.

 

if it takes one big league to stop the double up/down situation then I'm all for it .. things aren't the same as it was when it was last tried, there's more of an even balance and that is proved by the number of double up/down riders out there, so I honestly believe it would now work, and supporters would know who was in the teams.

 

I'm not one that thinks having all the GP riders in the EL would make a difference to crowds, not noticeably anyway, and certainly not enough to pay for those riders. what WOULD make a difference is lowering costs for supporters, from entry right through to the cost of food at a stadium. does anyone really think something like a 'cheeseburger' is worth £3.50 at a track when they are just cheap burgers with a slice of processed cheese.

if costs for a night out were brought down I honestly think people would be more likely to attend, and even take children which is the only way of getting new fans these days. we hardly get anyone go that has never been before, too many other things on offer for less money, but the die hards bringing children might just keep things going a bit longer

 

 

 

Would it even hurt SKY to advertise the forthcoming transmission of a Speedway meeting either during the slots before, at half time or even after the Sunday afternoon Premier League matches? I've never seen it. In my opinion, to SKY, Speedway is nothing more than something that is a cheap filler in their schedule.

 

 

I always feel SKY, and speedway in general, are just preaching to the converted instead of advertising where non speedway people will see it

[semion]

Spot On Steveo. Speedway needs to be at price where People don't have to consider whether they can afford it or not. If people questions themselves , as in what are they actually getting for their Money then its a no brainer. They wont show up. If you are asking a person to part with around £30 ( admission Fuel prog, drink etc) on a weekly basis then they have to be getting something a bit better than is currently on offer.

 

Like I said in an earlier post a few years back we had that at Lynn. You felt the buzz as soon as you walked in the stadium. Atmosphere is a hard thing to achieve and so very easy to lose.

[Aces51]

Grachan, wasn't it only a a few seasons ago that Swindon couldn't pay their riders and had to rely on sponsors to pay off their debts.

 

I think some people are confusing standards with top riders. A genuine equalisation of team strengths and fair implementation of the rules will result in a more competitive league,the standard of racing will be better because there will be more riders of similar standard and that's what will encourage newcomers to return.

 

Just as in 1965 fans will have riders they can identify with season after season and over time the overall standard will improve and again become comparable with Poland and Sweden. Hopefully, this time, with a sensible financial structure in place clubs will not again allow themselves to commit to more expenditure than they can afford.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Aces51

[stevehone]

 

 

Like I said in an earlier post a few years back we had that at Lynn. You felt the buzz as soon as you walked in the stadium. Atmosphere is a hard thing to achieve and so very easy to lose.

 

the PL days at KL were really good, the riders AND supporters all felt part of the club, and that is incredibly important when trying to keep people coming to speedway.

I also think that mentality was what helped the club win things, as everyone was in it together.

[Brummie Kev]

I bet Cradley, Birmingham and Eastbourne are 3 of the most successful club in GB speedway in terms of making money!

 

Brummies made a profit last year I believe

[orion]

Swindon only got into problems the moment leigh adams left .the moment he left so did a lot of the crowd .another example of crowds wanting to see a top rider and how they paid for themselfs

[robert72]

It's not £21. It's £17.

.

Maybe maths are not your thing

 

it was £18 plus £3 for a programme with my adding up that makes £21 then times 2 that equals £39 (only 1 programme needed) that's an expensive night plus buying a drink there as your not allowed to take your own in.

 

15 races a minute = 15mins for £21 is that value for money these days when there is so much more on offer to see and do around the city ?

 

Too expensive now for an unpopular dying sport

[Star Lady]

Regarding advertising, I wonder if Jonathan has any thoughts on the number of fans (probably newbies) that were brought in when the truck and advertising boards used to tour Sunny Hunny. I know it difficult cos folk don't say where they are from when they pay their money but it would be interesting to know if there was ever any feedback especially in tourist areas like Lynn and the Norfolk coast.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Star Lady

[Shale Searcher]

One rider, one team. My take on this is simple....

 

If a rider rode for only one team, in a small league like the UK Elite League, he more than likely wouldn't be able to make a living, from that job alone, especially in today's economic climate. Apart from the competing costs, keeping a minimum of 2 decent bikes, + the ancillary spend that that carries. Just 1 or 2 meetings a week is not going cut the mustard. So, they need another job, a normal day job does not fit nowadays with a speedway racing schedule, so do what you do for another employer..

Like having 2 20hr pub jobs, to get the equivalent of a 40hr+ full time job.

 

This unfortunately means there are the inevitable clashes, neither club is happy with the clashes.

 

Either pay riders twice as much, that would mean extortionate admission costs with today's attendance levels, or put up with missed meetings.

 

I don't know what the answer is at the moment, especially at EPL level and above..

[Grachan]

Maybe maths are not your thing

 

it was £18 plus £3 for a programme with my adding up that makes £21 then times 2 that equals £39 (only 1 programme needed) that's an expensive night plus buying a drink there as your not allowed to take your own in.

 

15 races a minute = 15mins for £21 is that value for money these days when there is so much more on offer to see and do around the city ?

 

Too expensive now for an unpopular dying sport

You don't have to buy a programme either. It's £17.

[semion]

How about transport/Fuel to get there ? Not everyone lives on the doorstep of a Speedway track