Helicopter View

[Trees]

But the fans don't want all the same things .....

[mikebv]

I think what many people forget when trying to link the crowd levels with 'big names' is that, yes, having NP, Tai, Emil, Greg etc all visiting a track together occasionally will increase the usual attendance at that track.

 

However, the increase will, in the main, be made up of existing Speedway fans. i.e. fans of the team whose track is staging the meeting, fans of other local clubs, and the odd few visitors from around the country to see the 'novelty' of the best riders riding over here..

 

The issue we have is the fact that no one EXTRA (i.e. from outside the sport) will be persuaded to attend because they simply don't know who these riders are, or often, that the sport exists in the first place. Their names are simply meaningless to anyone outside the sport's own insular fanbase.

 

It is NEW fans that the sport needs not just a recycling of existing ones from track to track...

 

It shouldnt be forgotten too that the big names of the sport have all ridden here over the past ten years but have attendances risen during this time?

 

Put simply. No!

 

The reality is attendances have actually dwindled with their participation...

 

I would suggest that rather than a lack of a few top names being responsible for the sports current ills, the unfeasibly high admission fee for a tiny minority sport has had a far, far greater impact to attendances than a few top names not riding over here.

 

Sort that by cutting it's cloth accordingly and maybe Speedway can 'start again' in this country.

 

Perversely, the big positive that the sport has in this country is that it has virtually hit 'rock bottom' so anyone with the courage to make the needed radical decisions, and the vision and drive to move it forwards, can make a huge difference in a very short space of time.

 

And after going back to 'year zero' and starting over, hopefully not make the same mistakes again....

Edited April 5, 2016 by mikebv

[Daniel Smith]

I have thought that maybe the elite league racing could become a 4TT still using the home and away format.

 

Home: King's Lynn v Poole v Swindon v Belle Vue

 

Away: Poole v Lakeside v King's Lynn v Wolverhampton

 

The if teams wish to also run the traditional 7 man format they could enter the PL or NL

[lynnboy]

I think what many people forget when trying to link the crowd levels with 'big names' is that, yes, having NP, Tai, Emil, Greg etc all visiting a track together occasionally will increase the usual attendance at that track.

 

However, the increase will, in the main, be made up of existing Speedway fans. i.e. fans of the team whose track is staging the meeting, fans of other local clubs, and the odd few visitors from around the country to see the 'novelty' of the best riders riding over here..

 

The issue we have is the fact that no one EXTRA (i.e. from outside the sport) will be persuaded to attend because they simply don't know who these riders are or that the sport exists in the first place. Their names are simply meaningless to anyone outside the sport's own insular fanbase.

 

All the big names of the sport have ridden here over the past ten years but have attendances risen when they rode here? No! The attendances have actually dwindled with their participation...

 

I would suggest that rather than a lack of a few top names being responsible for the sports current ills, the unfeasibly high admission fee for a tiny minority sport has had far, far greater impact to attendances than a few top names not riding over here.

 

Sort that by cutting it's cloth accordingly and maybe Speedway can 'start again' in this country.

 

Perversely, the big positive that the sport has in this country is that it has virtually hit 'rock bottom' so anyone with the courage to make the needed radical decisions, and the vision and drive to move it forwards, can make a huge difference in a very short time.

 

And after going back to 'year zero' and starting again, hopefully not make the same mistakes again

Top post mate

[BritPete]

I noticed that a leading question asked yesterday has remained unanswered. Maybe silence can sometimes speak volumes.?

 

There have been many ideas posted on here, but the powers that be, will as usual, take no notice and self-interest will continue until the death.

[Midland Red]

I think what many people forget when trying to link the crowd levels with 'big names' is that, yes, having NP, Tai, Emil, Greg etc all visiting a track together occasionally will increase the usual attendance at that track.

 

However, the increase will, in the main, be made up of existing Speedway fans. i.e. fans of the team whose track is staging the meeting, fans of other local clubs, and the odd few visitors from around the country to see the 'novelty' of the best riders riding over here..

 

The issue we have is the fact that no one EXTRA (i.e. from outside the sport) will be persuaded to attend because they simply don't know who these riders are or often, that the sport exists in the first place. Their names are simply meaningless to anyone outside the sport's own insular fanbase.

 

It is NEW fans that the sport needs not just a recycling of existing ones from track to track...

 

It shouldnt be forgotten too that the big names of the sport have all ridden here over the past ten years but have attendances risen during this time? Simply No! The reality is attendances have actually dwindled with their participation...

 

I would suggest that rather than a lack of a few top names being responsible for the sports current ills, the unfeasibly high admission fee for a tiny minority sport has had far, far greater impact to attendances than a few top names not riding over here.

 

Sort that by cutting it's cloth accordingly and maybe Speedway can 'start again' in this country.

 

Perversely, the big positive that the sport has in this country is that it has virtually hit 'rock bottom' so anyone with the courage to make the needed radical decisions, and the vision and drive to move it forwards, can make a huge difference in a very short time.

 

And after going back to 'year zero' and starting again, hopefully not make the same mistakes again

 

No need to go that far back - just return to 1965

 

For Elite League read National League

For Premier League read Provincial League

 

Out of this came British League, filled with riders based in the UK, dedicated to their teams in the UK, once "Rider Control" had done its job, riding self-maintained cost-effective machinery

 

Then we had enough meetings, priced economically, for regular attendees to enjoy the BL, regional leagues, regional individual competition . . . then along came internationals versus other nations

 

And we had fan affiliation with riders who, in the main, stayed with their clubs - not journeymen

[Theboss]

I noticed that a leading question asked yesterday has remained unanswered. Maybe silence can sometimes speak volumes.?

 

There have been many ideas posted on here, but the powers that be, will as usual, take no notice and self-interest will continue until the death.

Would help if you could give people a clue to what this post was?

Edited April 5, 2016 by jchapman

[mikebv]

No need to go that far back - just return to 1965

 

For Elite League read National League

For Premier League read Provincial League

 

Out of this came British League, filled with riders based in the UK, dedicated to their teams in the UK, once "Rider Control" had done its job, riding self-maintained cost-effective machinery

 

Then we had enough meetings, priced economically, for regular attendees to enjoy the BL, regional leagues, regional individual competition . . . then along came internationals versus other nations

 

And we had fan affiliation with riders who, in the main, stayed with their clubs - not journeymen

There's definitely a blueprint there...

 

Be a good 'starter for ten'....

[sparkafag]

I do understand the point you are making you wish to position it that Speedway clubs cannot afford top riders, it would hold more validity with me if it wasn’t just a sweeping generalisation and also if, as you have already alluded to yourself, you knew whether or not some clubs could or couldn’t afford riders. The story and deficit of 100k is one you have fabricated rather than an actuality, you might want to take a step back and realise that rather than entrenching yourself in your own idea.

 

My point was what about the clubs who can afford riders, it is yourself that has chosen to create a straw man club who cannot afford riders and started to pluck figures from the air.

 

Even taking all that into account, I doubt you will ever get to a stage where clubs wont rely on outside funding, the very existence of a club needing support and payment from fans means they require outside funding, some clubs will be fortunate enough to have more fans than others, and with more fans more than likely more cash rich fans who wish to invest in the club, club aren't going to turn that investment down, and nor should they as attracting sponsors isn't "irresponsible" if the club has carried out due diligence.

 

Re the “I remember a promoter once telling me” line, sorry it doesn’t hold weight with me, the counter would be “I remember a promoter once told me they could afford rider x”…it just comes across a bit like bald men fighting over a comb though..

 

You clearly don't understand the point I was making. I could have a sports team with an annual income of say £500,000. My costs may come to £600,000. I find £100,000 to cover the loss. Suppose my star performer cost me £100,000 a year. I could hire him for 12 years by subsidising my business. It doesn't mean that my business can afford him, just that I can prop up my business. Now, that's all well and good if I can do that but it doesn't mean that the star is affordable BY THE BUSINESS.

 

As for outside funding being justified it's all very well if you have a rich sugar daddy to 'sponsor', but not a sustainable long-term position nor is it fair on other businesses behaving responsibly. Speedway appears to have been paying more than it can afford for years. I remember one promoter over 20 years ago telling me at the end of a meeting "That's another grand I've got to find personally to give to the bank tomorrow".

 

Sport, especially football gets away with murder financially, relying on sentiment and tradition to get it through. Sport carries on trying to buy rather than build success - and it works, for now.

Edited April 5, 2016 by sparkafag

[Fourentee]

Woukd help if you could give people a clue to what this post was?

 

My assumption was that it was Steve Shovlar's query concerning what level of control was exercised at conference by Matt Ford. For the sake of the discussion, could we assume that's the case because I'm sure your reply would interest a lot of forum members.

[BritPete]

Would help if you could give people a clue to what this post was?

#40. Maybe you didn't see it.

[quote name=BritPete" post="2759051"

 

timestamp="1459846342]#40. Maybe you didn't see it.[/quote

 

#41,actually. The numbers are very small

[Theboss]

Jonathon, heres a question for you that many would like to know the answer to.

 

At the agm or other bspa meetings, does Matt Ford rule the roost? Are other promoters scared of him and do as he beckons? If he says jump do they say, how high sir?

 

Many non Poole fans on here believe that Matt Ford is the root of all evil in the sport and the reason the sport is in the position it is today due to his win at all costs mentality and the constant building of quality sides.

 

What are your thoughts from someone who was on the inside of the BSPA?

 

What I will say Steve is that I respect Matt as a business person and believe it speaks volumes of his impressive and wide-ranging capabilities when he can attract a main team sponsor to Poole Speedway such as Readypower Engineering Ltd (managing director Julie Mahoney and general manager Rick Frost*).

 

* Julie Mahoney and Rick Frost are both former promoters of Peterborough Speedway, who walked out of the BSPA AGM in November 2010 for un-confirmed reasons and mounted a legal challenge against the BSPA.

Edited April 5, 2016 by jchapman

[BritPete]

What I will say Steve is that I respect Matt as a business person and believe it speaks volumes of his impressive and wide-ranging capabilities when he can attract a main team sponsor to Poole Speedway such as Readypower Engineering Ltd (managing director Julie Mahoney and general manager Rick Frost*).

 

* Julie Mahoney and Rick Frost are both former promoters of

Peterborough Speedway, who walked out of the BSPA AGM in November 2010 for un-confirmed reasons and mounted a legal challenge against the BSPA.

Thank you.

[SteveLyric2]

Matt rarely attends the BSPA meetings these days - rather leaving them to Gordon Pairman for example!! I'm sure Gordon alluded to this recently.

 

Gordon often peruses these threads so I'm sure he could clarify?! ;-)

[orion]

Meanwhile, away from the Fantasy League......................

 

Clueless.

 

And in those two posts we have very adequate proof that there is no point in trying to have an intelligent discussion in the BSF. Simplistic answers based on guesswork and gut feeling to what are complex issues.

 

You could put the world's best on a EL track and I would doubt whether you could get enough people in the various stadia bar Belle Vue or maybe Coventry to even think about covering the cost. Thanks to Poland the cost of hiring the 'elite' is way beyond British ability to pay now, I suspect.

 

Yes the crowds would be bigger, but it's pointless if you can't get enough people in there to pay the riders without hiking the price to ridiculous levels.

 

Anyway, one very strong argument against merging the leagues is that you stop these blinkered EL 'superior beings' 'supporters' from ruining the fun in the PL and NL. It's probably best to just leave the EL to its problems and focus on the sane side of the sport.

 

It's like trying to discuss finance with someone whose expertise doesn't go beyond playing Monopoly....

 

Yea again another clueless post ...pl is not doing well and it's not a sane and safe play ...bar in your mad world ...have a read about Plymouth ...have a look at Berwick and Scunny who are always on the brink of going bust ..wake up are understand that speedway is in trouble full stop .

 

The odd thing about speedway is that the only superior fans tend to be pl fans like yourself who for whatever reason just spend there time saying how great the pl is and wanting the el to fail ..your post sums up that in a nutshell.

 

As for finance what would make you such an expert say to me ? reading what you put the pl being a sane place i would not let you near a monopoly board as your unlikely to pass go

It shouldnt be forgotten too that the big names of the sport have all ridden here over the past ten years but have attendances risen during this time?

 

Put simply. No!

 

The reality is attendances have actually dwindled with their participation...

The reality is as the standard of riders has dropped so have the crowds ...it's not been a question of the crowds going down it's been question of not being able to keep the fans that we had ...it's bit like when White Knight said that crowds have gone down since the play offs and sky ,thou that is true i expect the crowds on a whole would have been even lower ..if the only plan is make the standard even lower (the same plan for the last 20 years ) then speedway and will die a slow death .

Edited April 5, 2016 by orion

[robert72]

 

 

I will keep that story (along with the many others I have) in my back pocket until the right day

Totally agree with you, the right day will come soon as so many things have gone on that shouldn't and it's made the sport what it is today a real mess.

 

However The last person to speak out was a promotor and he got his licence taken away for speaking out against Poole.

 

The sport needs cleaning up and run by an independent body not by mates

[BritPete]

Totally agree with you, the right day will come soon as so many things have gone on that shouldn't and it's made the sport what it is today a real mess.

However The last person to speak out was a promotor and he got his licence taken away for speaking out against Poole.

The sport needs cleaning up and run by an independent body not by mates

Absolutely. But easier said than done. I have always had the o

impression that speedway Is run by s handful of people, and the rest have to go along with them, or else!

[mikebv]

Yea again another clueless post ...pl is not doing well and it's not a sane and safe play ...bar in your mad world ...have a read about Plymouth ...have a look at Berwick and Scunny who are always on the brink of going bust ..wake up are understand that speedway is in trouble full stop .The odd thing about speedway is that the only superior fans tend to be pl fans like yourself who for whatever reason just spend there time saying how great the pl is and wanting the el to fail ..your post sums up that in a nutshell.As for finance what would make you such an expert say to me ? reading what you put the pl being a sane place i would not let you near a monopoly board as your unlikely to pass goThe reality is as the standard of riders has dropped so have the crowds ...it's not been a question of the crowds going down it's been question of not being able to keep the fans that we had ...it's bit like when White Knight said that crowds have gone down since the play offs and sky ,thou that is true i expect the crowds on a whole would have been even lower ..if the only plan is make the standard even lower (the same plan for the last 20 years ) then speedway and will die a slow death .

When teams do a 'freebie' the place is packed with many 'used to go/first timers'

 

When teams do a £10 special, the crowds far exceed their usual attendance...

 

And it doesnt seem to matter one iota whether 'big names' are there or not...

 

I would suggest therefore it is the cost to get in that is the issue rather than who is actually there...

 

Get the costs down to get facilitate the right price and maybe Speedway will grow?

 

One thing is for sure. Teams would be far better spending 3k a week on advertising and marketing their product than on a No1 rider who brings approximately zero extra through the gate when he is there and loses approximately zero from the gate when he isn't...

Edited April 5, 2016 by mikebv

[frigbo]

yes, one league, 7 riders, rid us of this mix n match...bring speedway back to a proper team sport

 

 

The last part of this post grasps exactly why I no longer go.

 

It also reflects onw reason why so many sport fans see Speedway as ridiculous.

[orion]

When teams do a 'freebie' the place is packed with many 'used to go/first timers'

 

When teams do a £10 special, the crowds far exceed their usual attendance...

 

And it doesnt seem to matter one iota whether 'big names' are there or not...

 

I would suggest therefore it is the cost to get in that is the issue rather than who is actually there...

 

Get the costs down to get facilitate the right price and maybe Speedway will grow?

 

One thing is for sure. Teams would be far better spending 3k a week on advertising and marketing their product than on a No1 rider who brings approximately zero extra through the gate when he is there and loses approximately zero from the gate when he isn't...

Not at all as I said before other sporting events like pl football pack the grounds out even at £40 -60 a ticket ...so it's not a question of cost it's a question of value for money or people willing to paid more to watch the best .

 

Swindon ran nl at a tenner and hardly anyone went so they had to pack it in ...if your logic was correct and it's only cost that stops people going they should be getting the same crowds as Swindon were in the el at the time that cost a £5 extra

 

Do you think the Gp at Cardiff would sell more tickets like it is at the moment or if it was £10 for with 16 nl standard riders ?

Edited April 5, 2016 by orion