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Can't argue with any of that.

 

EL - spot on

 

PL- fair summary, much the better league for racing IMO

 

NL- like the idea of a couple bikes being provided

 

Team GB - agreed

 

BSPA - you know far better than most fans so will bow to your knowledge, seems sensible.

 

international riders - for what they are paid they add very little to the overall entertainment value.

 

British riders - agreed

 

Sky TV - not sure about them, have far too much influence and bias IMO but handled properly could benefit the sport

 

Supporters - totally taken for granted, they should be made to feel part of their respective clubs not an inconvenience. All promoters should hold a couple of forums per season to interact with fans

 

Summary -

Especially agree with an independent chairman, preferably one with the clout to bang heads together when necessary, which I have no doubt will happen. Restructuring of leagues and maybe a blueprint combining the best of the "extra" value some clubs manage to provide should be given to all clubs.

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I don't think there is anything I would disagree with.

 

My only additional thoughts are that a lot of emphasis has to be put on training to attract and develop British youngsters to get them to a stage where they can compete for NL places and then to ensure a structured development thereafter.

 

Hopefully, the standard and numbers of British riders would improve year on year and eventually, as more get to a top international level, we can again open up the league to top foreign riders, rather than constantly lose Brits who have got to that level to Poland and Sweden. However, only if they ride for affordable rates. Lessons would have to be learnt so that we don't repeat present mistakes.

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JC One little question for you on a personal level. Why, when you had a good foot hold in the BSPA ( running the Super7 for example) did you walk away ? Surely it would have been better to be in the tent spitting out than outside the tent spitting in ?

 

A Lot of what you say I agree with.

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A very welcome and reasoned post from someone who has his own record of success to fall back on. I have long advocated the formation of one large league but strictly on the current PL model rather than the disastrous attempt in the nineties where the old second division was expected to operate at first division costs without having free access to the necessary riding talent or revenues.

 

It is time to let go of the riders whose priorities, both in hardware and commitment, are elsewhere and to stop squandering the Sky revenue on a hopeless escalation of rider pay that is not backed up by the necessary increases in attendances.

 

My chief concern is that the ills of the EL should not be allowed to pollute the new, unified league. Johnathan refers to the perceived manipulation of rules to favour an 'elite' few and it would be disastrous for the PL clubs to also have to suffer this cancer in the sport.

 

Sadly, there are still supporters who cannot grasp the concept that you do not need the world's greatest (and expensive) riders to stage great speedway. 25 out of 33 teams in Britain work successfully with this model and while there are still financial pressures that nearly cost the sport Plymouth this year it has to be the way forward. You could say that the days of seeing the world's best have already gone from the EL.

 

A regular, ideally weekly schedule of matches with a regular seven against a regular seven, allowing for absences for injury or FIM events is what has always worked in the past here and we must seek to return to that ideal. Crucially, we must reclaim weekend racing.

 

British speedway is wasting too much time and effort in trying to persuade riders to compete here who really have little interest, will charge the earth and show little interest or commitment. They have to go. Those 'fans; who say they will only watch these stars have to ask themselves if they really are supporters of speedway or the illusory glamour of fame? It dazzles easily but you soon see the reality behind that glare. We cannot continue to pander for this expensive, I hope, minority. We cannot afford it. I strongly suspect that the attendance increases brought by hiring the stars do not now cover the increased expense. If that is not the case then I welcome expert comment on the subject, ideally from those that know, not hope.

 

We need stability, to know that when we pay our money we will see our team race another full team, not a haphazard compromise of guests. We must offer value for money, free the sport from the publicity straitjacket relating to social media and rebuild in a sane manner.

 

Flying riders in from all over the continent to compete in front of crowds counted in the hundreds rather than thousands is insanity. We have to sell four riders doing four laps of RACING, and let the world know how good it can be.

 

Yes, the sport needs an American-style commissioner. There would have to be an enormous shift in attitudes amongst promoters to accept it. The most effective government is by consent. Is the sport mature enough to put the needs of the many ahead of the individual? Sadly, I think not.

 

I love speedway, despite all that it's done to me over the years and grieve at the sight of the modern-day EL. I saw some very successful days for the sport and while you cannot turn the clock back, the Polish and SGP genies are well and truly out of the bottle, we must adapt and rebuild, trying to recapture as many aspects of those successful days. A varied, regular fixture list of affordable matches, with teams composed of riders who will be there for almost all meetings, build a bond with the supporters and hopefully give and earn loyalty in return is essential.

 

The sport will always survive but right now it needs an attitude change throughout, from promoters and officials through riders to the 'fan' saying that if they don't see the world's best they'll hold their breath until someone does what they want.

 

The reward is enormous - a healthy, affordable and most of all wonderfully enjoyable sport!

Edited by rmc
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A lot I agree with and I appreciate it’s a suggestion but….

 

I would find a blanket exclusion of top level riders absurdly harsh for a number of reasons.

 

I don’t doubt the likes of Crump, Adams etc were well paid but they were great servants to speedway in this country and an absolute draw in terms of attracting fans, yes the landscape of the sport has changed since their days but even now the likes of Holder, Doyle and even Harris (who rides at the top level) haven’t done a thing wrong and are in fact great draws in terms of promoting the sport.

 

As well as excluding top level riders from the start you would ultimately be openly accepting and turning the sport in this country into a finishing school would you not, in that rider gets good and wants to leave for more money on the continent? And at what stage do loyal servants of the new model begin to be viewed as top level internationals? If Nick Morris as an example races for Australia at the SWC for the second year in a row this year is he then a top international who has to leave the league?

 

It all sounds a bit like a glorified PL to me, which I appreciate it is and what a lot of fans want but at the same time it sounds like a complete and utter acceptance of A Fish Super rather than Steak when a Sunday Roast could actually be ok.

Edited by sparkafag
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No doubt the sport is in a state of flux..

 

Clear direction with a clear vision of where it wants to go and what it wants to be is what is needed more than anything, and is at the core of its issues...

 

However, you cannot get to where you want to go if you have no idea of where it is you want to go in the first place!

 

Decisons, it often appears, are made in retrospect to sort out issues caused by a previous ill conceived dictat. However the new decisions made often don't ever fix the root cause of the original issue thus creating another 'grey area' to get exploited by more savvy and financially supported teams..

 

Result? The sports' Promoters are often seen as Amateurish with decisons reached by their collective implementation often regarded as lacking in Integrity. (Not a great position to be in when you want people to part with circa £20 a week and give it to you).

 

A lack of an independent arbiter also certainly doesn't help fans' perception of the BSPA members as an entity which is out to drive the sport forward as a collective. Rather it is often seen as being a bunch of people whose own self interest is the driving force of their decisions.

 

For me, the sport needs that circa £20 admission fee price point not only reducing but 'slashing'. And every effort should be made to cut costs to levels that will facilitate that.

 

I have info from an NL team as to some of the money/funded equipment being requested from riders this year who frankly I have never heard of but have done a couple of years at NL reserves/second string level and it is truly both amazing and laughable...

 

Needless to say, they didn't get what they wanted but have turned up elsewhere so presume someone has granted them their fiscal wish...?

 

They will though be only asking for 'silly money' as a. their costs often create the need for such unrealistic requests and b. someone eventually is willing to pay them what they want!

 

Speedway needs to ask itself whether it can sustain these spiralling costs at its current and forecasted attendance levels and start to face the stark reality of where it really is.

 

Paying out 3k a night to one rider on (at best) 'Vanarama League North' attendances is crackers, yet happens....

 

Cutting it's cloth accordingly will need fundamental changes which won't please all, riders, promoters or fans, however these decisons need to be taken for the greater good.

 

Has anyone within the sport got the vision to deliver a stable and forward moving future?

 

And if so. Has anyone within the sport also got the required leadership skills to deliver it?

 

If so, Apply to the BSPA, Rugby....

Edited by mikebv
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Spark its not a glorified anything. Its a Group of riders in a League riding for Money that Speedway in this Country can afford. Its not about Premier, Elite, call it what you will. It's what is now affordable.

 

That’s partly my point.

 

If Coventry (as an example ) can afford Harris (again example) and Harris can commit to meetings and things aren’t changed to accommodate him, why exclude him purely because he is good?

 

Why not just have both if a world class rider can meet the criteria required re proven attendance etc and so on, let them ride here.

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That’s partly my point.

 

If Coventry (as an example ) can afford Harris (again example) and Harris can commit to meetings and things aren’t changed to accommodate him, why exclude him purely because he is good?

 

Why not just have both if a world class rider can meet the criteria required re proven attendance etc and so on, let them ride here.

Of course any rider who is prepared to give full commitment to British Speedway should be allowed to compete. How many at the highest level bar Chris Harris are prepared to follow his lead? If more riders at the top level were like Chris our problems would be greatly reduced.

 

Just one other point, can Coventry afford him? They may find a way to pay but does can the business itself sustain employing him? I certainly don't know - do you?

 

It would actually help this debate greatly if the lurking promoters and officials, either current or past could let the rest of us know if there is a real BUSINESS case for employing the stars or is it just another irrecoverable cost of playing the power game?

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Just one other point, can Coventry afford him? They may find a way to pay but does can the business itself sustain employing him? I certainly don't know - do you?

 

 

They have signed him for 12 seasons (I think) so the suggestion is they can?

 

Is finding a way to pay riders not a massive part of building a sports team? If they (or any club) finds ways to pay riders through subsidiaries and sponsorship is that not a good thing, a part of sport?

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That’s partly my point.

 

If Coventry (as an example ) can afford Harris (again example) and Harris can commit to meetings and things aren’t changed to accommodate him, why exclude him purely because he is good?

 

Why not just have both if a world class rider can meet the criteria required re proven attendance etc and so on, let them ride here.

 

 

The problem is that whilst COVENTRY may be able to afford him, what about all the other clubs who need a number 1 and are demanding more than what they are worth because Harris is who they are the equal to and he is being paid a lot more than them.

 

* I can assure you that all riders talk and majority know what the other one earns per point

Been through all this before Jonathan, nothing new from your helicopter ....

 

So are you suggesting we should not discuss it any further or would you like to share what you could see from your helicopter?

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Premier League

Consisting of 13 teams who go about their business in a 'workperson' like manor, and genuinely seem to want to start the season on a level playing field. Their downfall seems to be the travel expenses, (Plymouth to Edinburgh for example) and the increased rider costs which have trickled down from the Elite League.

I've never really been given a definitive answer on who pays the costs of travel, largely because, for some reason, any discussion about finances seems to be frowned upon, but I think it would be good for fan to know what expenses are involved for both clubs and riders, even if it's only to justify the price of a ticket.

 

For instance, who pays for a rider to travel between British clubs? Is it the rider themselves? Do they get paid proportionally to the distance they travel, or is it a flat rate? Is it the same across all the leagues?

 

And who pays for a British rider to travel to, say, Sweden, for a league meeting? And vice versa? What about individual meetings? For instance, Nicki riding in Bomber's testimonial? Would Nicki have had to pay for that flight out of his own pocket?

 

Edited by June01
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For instance, who pays for a rider to travel between British clubs? Is it the rider themselves? Do they get paid proportionally to the distance they travel, or is it a flat rate? Is it the same across all the leagues?

 

And who pays for a British rider to travel to, say, Sweden, for a league meeting? And vice versa? What about individual meetings? For instance, Nicki riding in Bomber's testimonial? Would Nicki have had to pay for that flight out of his own pocket?

 

 

There is a set contribution made by the riders club for travel from their residing address in the UK to their place of racing. This used to be 10p per mile but I believe it has gone up to 15p in the past few years. However I have heard some clubs have agreed to pay riders up to 30p per mile towards travel. As you can imagine this can add up significantly for 7 riders, so for example if the 7 riders at Plymouth travelled up to Edinburgh for one meeting and were paid an average of 20p per mile this would cost Plymouth speedway approximately £1366 (mileage taken from google).

 

With regards to flights their are none for British riders but Swedish and Danish have a set amount paid for as per the agreements between the Associations. However again, many will negotiate for a lot more than the minimum and often it will cost £300 or more just to fly a rider in and out for a meeting. Individual meetings are down to negotiation.

Edited by jchapman
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The problem is that whilst COVENTRY may be able to afford him, what about all the other clubs who need a number 1 and are demanding more than what they are worth because Harris is who they are the equal to and he is being paid a lot more than them.

 

* I can assure you that all riders talk and majority know what the other one earns per point

 

 

 

I fail to see even in a merged league, how (short term and probably long term), for example, Berwick or Scunthorpe will ever be able to afford the same standard of rider as Poole or Coventry, and I don’t think that is a bad thing. They sides will always be able to pay more so in theory always drag the price up if they go for a Number 1 irrespective of the standard of league or other Number 1 riders as they will set a precedent for "Number 1 money"

 

If a side builds a better, more sustainable business model they should be able to spend more than other clubs, that’s generally how sport works. As well as building decent 1-7s clubs should be rewarded for building solid clubs. If they have done that through the attraction of fans, sponsors etc, then the cash generated from that should be going back onto the track in some form rather than sitting as cash reserves just because others haven’t achieved the same level of success.

 

But fair enough, if you remove Harris the next best rider would just be the one who was in demand who Coventry could afford and others couldn’t you would only continue a list eliminating names as you go saying “can’t rider here because some can afford and others cannot” IMO, as that is generally how sport works, clubs want better riders.

 

I think that fairness is great, but if the idea is Coventry (as an example) can’t sign someone (eg Harris) despite being able to afford him and have to charge the same as Edinburgh (despite having indefinitely better facilities than them) then I am not sure that is fair but instead manufactured haemorrhaging of a side to the point you might actually a damage sides to falsely build others.

 

I don’t mean this as a cheap shot rather a tip of the hat in praise. There was once a time in the PL when a Kings Lynn side had the likes of Nermark, Doolan and Topinka in it, do I think every side in the PL could have afforded that, no, do I think it was a bad thing or damaged the product, not really, if anything that side was a great draw and something for others to aim at and fans to enjoy when they came to town.

 

I do appreciate the original post was just a suggestion though and a lot of this is probably pedantic nit-picking but at least it is debate with the best intentions of the sport at heart.

Edited by sparkafag
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