It Must Have Been This Bad Before.....mustn't It?

[Mike.Butler]

Trying to find a glimmer of hope after this debacle of a week...Anyone around when the no. of tracks operating was fewer and/or the profile of the sport was lower? guess you'd have to be of a certain age..

[lucifer sam]

Trying to find a glimmer of hope after this debacle of a week...Anyone around when the no. of tracks operating was fewer and/or the profile of the sport was lower? guess you'd have to be of a certain age..

 

I wasn't around, but in 1958, only 10 tracks were left, a few years earlier there had been 35.

 

All the best

Rob

[Tsunami]

 

I wasn't around, but in 1958, only 10 tracks were left, a few years earlier there had been 35.

 

All the best

Rob

And 4 years later the number was back up in the 20's with the start of the Provincial League.

[RobMcCaffery]

 

I wasn't around, but in 1958, only 10 tracks were left, a few years earlier there had been 35.

 

All the best

Rob

I think you'll find it was 1957, but to be fair there were a few tracks also operating in the Southern Area League. The late fifties were the nadir with the onslaught of TV, the entertainment tax and the ending of rationing of food, clothing and petrol which meant people had freedom to spend on essentials rather than sport. All sports suffered with our own's volatility (a polite word for the take the money and run approach by many contemporary promoters) meaning it was hit hard.

 

Remember, much rationing carried through to the mid fifties. Spending patterns changed hugely in the second half of the decade.

 

Of course the Mike Parker-led revival in numbers followed - too many tracks had been abandoned prematurely and Parker proved that a new approach at a lower level could render them viable after all. There were still failures such as Liverpool though.

 

The revival was not at the existing top level. A lesson for the future?

[foamfence]

I was around in the 50s and 60s. The difference then was that Britain was the hub of Speedway, these days if we closed down the Poles and Swedes would carry on regardless and there would be very little chance of a recovery here. The Provincial league showed that there was still enough of a following then and so the recovery began, these days there is very little following and I can't even understand how many clubs are keeping going.

[RobMcCaffery]

I was around in the 50s and 60s. The difference then was that Britain was the hub of Speedway, these days if we closed down the Poles and Swedes would carry on regardless and there would be very little chance of a recovery here. The Provincial league showed that there was still enough of a following then and so the recovery began, these days there is very little following and I can't even understand how many clubs are keeping going.

When you hear the desperately sad story of Plymouth only needing 700 to break-even and not even being to get closer than 450 you do wonder how we've been able to sustain the numbers of tracks that we have, but then I suspect that the profit expectation is vastly different.

 

I believe we don't need to be the centre of the speedway world to revive - a bit of isolationism and a rebuild on affordable lines might be far better for British Speedway than many would think. If none of the riders here were at the beck and call of Poland and BSI and were focussed on making a British revival work in the short to mid-term I think it could be a vital way forward.

 

It does look like we have more tracks running than the sport can afford. The trick is to increase what it can afford or make it affordable rather than watch the track numbers collapse to the late fifties crisis level.

[lucifer sam]

I think you'll find it was 1957, but to be fair there were a few tracks also operating in the Southern Area League. The late fifties were the nadir with the onslaught of TV, the entertainment tax and the ending of rationing of food, clothing and petrol which meant people had freedom to spend on essentials rather than sport. All sports suffered with our own's volatility (a polite word for the take the money and run approach by many contemporary promoters) meaning it was hit hard.

 

Remember, much rationing carried through to the mid fifties. Spending patterns changed hugely in the second half of the decade.

 

Of course the Mike Parker-led revival in numbers followed - too many tracks had been abandoned prematurely and Parker proved that a new approach at a lower level could render them viable after all. There were still failures such as Liverpool though.

 

The revival was not at the existing top level. A lesson for the future?

 

It's 1958 when it was lowest, because the SAL didn't run that year. Just a single National League.

 

But yes any revival needs to be at grass roots level first. It's no coincidence that the league currently gaining in numbers is the third tier.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited March 22, 2016 by lucifer sam

[mikebv]

When you hear the desperately sad story of Plymouth only needing 700 to break-even and not even being to get closer than 450 you do wonder how we've been able to sustain the numbers of tracks that we have, but then I suspect that the profit expectation is vastly different.

 

I believe we don't need to be the centre of the speedway world to revive - a bit of isolationism and a rebuild on affordable lines might be far better for British Speedway than many would think. If none of the riders here were at the beck and call of Poland and BSI and were focussed on making a British revival work in the short to mid-term I think it could be a vital way forward.

 

It does look like we have more tracks running than the sport can afford. The trick is to increase what it can afford or make it affordable rather than watch the track numbers collapse to the late fifties crisis level.

 

Year and years and years of 'survival of the weakest' has helped deliver the current situation...

 

With the ultimate irony being for even those 'successful' the costs involved in bringing that success can threaten their very existence..

 

And all to win something that no one outside a meagre following even recognise as an achievement...

 

A very strange business plan indeed...

 

Maybe less teams with the inevitable less team places could provide higher rider supply than demand and help clubs with what they have to pay out whilst providing more quality riders per team?

 

Less actually may mean more with regards to Speedway?

Edited March 22, 2016 by mikebv

[Shale Searcher]

Just lost my contribution to this thread, no more long-uns to be written on a bloody phone!!!😭

 

I will re-write on my pc, then paste it into this thread......

[GWC]

The costs of running a speedway track/team cannot be any greater than a non league football club at National level or the next level below that,

Crowds are similar and stadia are much the same with limited facilities and volunteers.

There is a need for people with deep pockets to run football at that level so why should speedway be any different.

Edited March 23, 2016 by GWC

[RobMcCaffery]

Year and years and years of 'survival of the weakest' has helped deliver the current situation...

 

With the ultimate irony being for even those 'successful' the costs involved in bringing that success can threaten their very existence..

 

And all to win something that no one outside a meagre following even recognise as an achievement...

 

A very strange business plan indeed...

 

Maybe less teams with the inevitable less team places could provide higher rider supply than demand and help clubs with what they have to pay out whilst providing more quality riders per team?

 

Less actually may mean more with regards to Speedway?

I'd suggest that Eastbourne's move out of the EL was long-overdue, especially when they started to dictate that seasons be cut to 14 matches on the basis that was all that they could afford to subsidise.

 

In the past we have allowed the wealthy clubs unlimited success. Wembley took advantage and virtually killed the sport stone dead. By the time they'd themselves given up we were left with the tiny number of tracks mentioned at the start of this thread. Birmingham, Eastbourne, Peterborough and Oxford weren't killed at EL level by any 'survival of the weakest' policy and I'd suggest we only have a National Speedway Stadium in Manchester and a Belle Vue Aces team to ride in it due to years of the equalisation policy.

 

Ensuring that the weak don't get left too far behind and the wealthiest cannot buy success is at the cornerstone of most American sports, especially the NFL. Would you consider that they have a poor business plan?

The costs of running a speedway track/team cannot be any greater than a non league football club at National level or the next level below that,

 

Except that you aren't flying competitors in from all over the world to compete in front of crowds numbered in the hundreds.

 

It's 1958 when it was lowest, because the SAL didn't run that year. Just a single National League.

 

But yes any revival needs to be at grass roots level first. It's no coincidence that the league currently gaining in numbers is the third tier.

 

All the best

Rob

Apologies Rob, I'm a little rusty on the SAL. I tend to focus on the '57 collapse/amalgamation since it gave Rayleigh Rockets their solitary season in the top flight. You can guess how successful it was by the use of the word 'solitary'.

Edited March 23, 2016 by rmc

[arthur cross]

 

Ensuring that the weak don't get left too far behind and the wealthiest cannot buy success is at the cornerstone of most American sports, especially the NFL. Would you consider that they have a poor business plan?

 

 

Very well noted ... yet, incredibly, repeated attempts by one enlightened promoter to at least debate adapting the North American major leagues' model of conferences/divisions into British speedway has been ignorantly discarded every time in a hurry, sometimes with ridiculously abusive responses.

 

Too many glory-hunting promoters lose sight of the fact that most 65-25 runaway wins in speedway are far less entertaining than a 7-0 win in football or a 60-0 demolition in rugby because at least the goals/tries have to be scored by skilfully working your way through or past the opposition for every score instead of simply leaving them behind at the first bend of most speedway heats in a similar thrashing.

 

By the way, Eastbourne's volunteering to step down to the 2015 National League is the 2nd-best shrewdly realistic decision I've seen in our domestic speedway in recent years, beaten only by Ipswich's volunteering to step down to the 2011 Premier League within days of tasting that level in their 2010 Elite-relegation meetings against Newcastle.

Edited March 23, 2016 by arthur cross

[mikebv]

The 'American model' is something that I have believed for years could be perfect for Speedway..

 

However,..

 

The NFL, NBA, NHL are ran independently with pretty much a 'rod of iron'..

 

Therefore all teams sign up knowing the rules are for the collective good not any individual..

 

Any team bleating and making threats of closure if they cannot get their own way doesnt get allowed to do what they want, but are given short shrift and faces the wrath of the lead body with real consequences..

 

Ironically in the worlds most regarded capitalist country their sports are run on almost socialist lines...

 

The weakest can survive over there because they are still financially very solvent through the strength of the collective, and the equal financial rewards through the shared business plan...

 

Imagine that happening in the BSPA?

Edited March 23, 2016 by mikebv

[lucifer sam]

Apologies Rob, I'm a little rusty on the SAL. I tend to focus on the '57 collapse/amalgamation since it gave Rayleigh Rockets their solitary season in the top flight. You can guess how successful it was by the use of the word 'solitary'.

 

No worries.

 

1957 is quite often regarded as the blackest year, because of the closure of the Wembley Lions in February.

 

The SAL operated from 1954 to 1957, never got off the ground in 1958 (lack of teams was always a problem for the competition), and was resurrected in 1959.

 

As pointed out by both yourself and Tsunami, it's the formation of the Provincial League in 1960 that proved speedway's salvation and led to another boom period in the late sixties and throughout the seventies. Furthermore, the creation of a British League Division Two in 1968 almost doubled the number of speedway teams within a two-year period.

 

The past can sometimes teach us a lesson. What speedway's past has told us is that survival can be gained from building from the grass roots up. Do we actually need the top world class riders to survive? Well, no. Many of the top foreigners were not allowed in the British League in 1965, but yet this year is seen as a major step forward.

 

Speedway clubs need to build to a budget they can afford. As long as the racing is competitive, the league of the level is largely irrelevant. Birmingham and Eastbourne are very recent examples of clubs saved by dropping to an affordable level, and many fans have hailed NL racing rather than walking away from it.

 

Let's get back to teams being build from (largely) local youngsters.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited March 23, 2016 by lucifer sam

[crazyb]

The costs of running a speedway track/team cannot be any greater than a non league football club at National level or the next level below that,

Crowds are similar and stadia are much the same with limited facilities and volunteers.

There is a need for people with deep pockets to run football at that level so why should speedway be any different.

How many non-league sides pay a player £1200 per match!! That's the figure according to the Plymouth thread that Ben Barker was getting, AND he is not the only PL rider paid something like that by a long way; but I know there are a lot who don't get that amount.

But at a maximum of £70 a point average that is still around £7000 per meeting for riders wages alone, without all the other expenditure.

Cut the average to around £45 a point, with a guarantee of £200 per meeting and then it might just make riders see sense and do away with all the mechanics and tuners they use.

Tracks might get away without any losses then AND might even make a profit

[Long Eye]

How many non-league sides pay a player £1200 per match!! That's the figure according to the Plymouth thread that Ben Barker was getting, AND he is not the only PL rider paid something like that by a long way; but I know there are a lot who don't get that amount.

But at a maximum of £70 a point average that is still around £7000 per meeting for riders wages alone, without all the other expenditure.

Cut the average to around £45 a point, with a guarantee of £200 per meeting and then it might just make riders see sense and do away with all the mechanics and tuners they use.

Tracks might get away without any losses then AND might even make a profit

Yeah I read Bowdens general sweeping PL points money rates and knowing what some riders are on in that league both at reserve and heat leaders positions I thought 'what a load of bo11ox'. Maybe Barker as the Golden child did manage to get £100 quid a point but that is quite a rare case.

[speedibee]

Yeah I read Bowdens general sweeping PL points money rates and knowing what some riders are on in that league both at reserve and heat leaders positions I thought 'what a load of bo11ox'. Maybe Barker as the Golden child did manage to get £100 quid a point but that is quite a rare case.

I'm not so sure , You only have to look at the money you see arriving at a Pl meeting to see how much is being paid , how many riders have 4 £500 helemts a brand new van 2 bikes , the latest phone ipad and gadgets , most of them have a house and no job , they ain't having all that off £200 a night

[Sings4Speedway]

Yeah I read Bowdens general sweeping PL points money rates and knowing what some riders are on in that league both at reserve and heat leaders positions I thought 'what a load of bo11ox'. Maybe Barker as the Golden child did manage to get £100 quid a point but that is quite a rare case.

 

Whilst there may not be many PL riders on £100 a point there are others who are turning down those offers looking for more.

The NL has riders on £50 a point and not all of them heat leaders.

Ultimately the riders can ask for whatever they like its the promoters responsibility to work out if they can afford it and offer deals accordingly.

The rich clubs already have first pick so that wouldn't change but if the majority of teams were offering £50 per point for example there will be some who say i can't afford to run for that and retire and yes there may be a few more NL standard riders in the PL for a couple of years but at least the clubs will be sustainable and still in existence.

[speedibee]

When you hear the desperately sad story of Plymouth only needing 700 to break-even and not even being to get closer than 450 you do wonder how we've been able to sustain the numbers of tracks that we have, but then I suspect that the profit expectation is vastly different.

 

I believe we don't need to be the centre of the speedway world to revive - a bit of isolationism and a rebuild on affordable lines might be far better for British Speedway than many would think. If none of the riders here were at the beck and call of Poland and BSI and were focussed on making a British revival work in the short to mid-term I think it could be a vital way forward.

 

It does look like we have more tracks running than the sport can afford. The trick is to increase what it can afford or make it affordable rather than watch the track numbers collapse to the late fifties crisis level.

Problem is these days , if a track closes it's gone forever , so they can't be left to lay fallow until better times as they once were , close a track these days and within weeks the bulldozers are in and its a housing estate , even if that doesnt happen any attempt to re-open will be met with a wall of nimbyism

[arnieg]

The number of league teams peaked at 38 in 1978, after that there was a steady decline until it reached 21 in 1993.

 

Then the formation of BL3 (subsequently Academy, conference and now National league) pushed that up to 27 in 1994.

 

There are currently 28 league teams (if we exclude Plymouth) riding at 27 tracks (Cradley accounting for the difference).

 

The most notable recent trend is the increase in the National League - now with 8 stand alone teams (a record high?). Compare that with 1998 when there were just five teams in the league (four stand-alone: Buxton, Mildenhall, St Austell and Skegness who quickly transferred to King's Lynn; and Newport's junior team).

Edited March 23, 2016 by arnieg