uk_martin Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 From my point of view if costs are to be reduced then pay needs to be reduced. Wages at all levels of the sport are getting extreme. Hands up everyone who has ever changed jobs because they can earn more at X than they used to at Y....keep your hands up while I count...because you are the very people who should not be commenting on how much anyone else is allowed to earn. A speedway rider who risks his life and limbs every time he gets on a bike is just as entitled to earn as much as he can get as you are. Also, please explain what an "extreme" wage is. I'd love to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hands up everyone who has ever changed jobs because they can earn more at X than they used to at Y....keep your hands up while I count...because you are the very people who should not be commenting on how much anyone else is allowed to earn. A speedway rider who risks his life and limbs every time he gets on a bike is just as entitled to earn as much as he can get as you are. Also, please explain what an "extreme" wage is. I'd love to know. I'm the first to admit that speedway riders deserve to be rewarded but the money just isn't there anymore...as I've commented elsewhere. There needs to be some sort of ceiling otherwise the sport will just die in this country. 'Extreme Wage'? Footballers for starters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 'Extreme Wage'? Footballers for starters! Go back to S4K's post which stated in the context of speedway riders that "Wages at all levels of the sport are getting extreme." So what's an extreme wage in speedway? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Go back to S4K's post which stated in the context of speedway riders that "Wages at all levels of the sport are getting extreme." So what's an extreme wage in speedway? Apologies! That's the problem when one reads a thread out of context! I did once hear a rumour that a 'Star' rider was earning £500 a point...however rumours are one thing and fact another. At the end of the day we, the supporter, will not get to hear or read of the exact amounts riders specifically earn although it was common knowledge back in the distant past when points and start money were publicised and is often quoted when one reads editorials and/or books about riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 It's not all about points money now it's the complete package most riders are after a van deal a tyre oil fuel every meeting ,mechanic plus workshop facility's accommodation and sponsorship all chucked in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) It's not all about points money now it's the complete package most riders are after a van deal a tyre oil fuel every meeting ,mechanic plus workshop facility's accommodation and sponsorship all chucked in Yes I was reading only yesterday that once upon a time riders 'employed' mechanics based on beer and fish 'n' chip money (unless you were Ivan Mauger etc) and it's just not sustainable within the league structure here in Britain nowadays to employ full-time mechanics based on the economies now in place. Edited March 19, 2016 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think the only way this could be sold to riders is: 1) You will be paid less. 2) But your outgoings will be less. 3) The net effect on income earned could be zero to positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted March 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) I think the only way this could be sold to riders is: 1) You will be paid less. 2) But your outgoings will be less. 3) The net effect on income earned could be zero to positive. Financially, the losers will be the engine tuners and riders who are not as talented but have excellent equipment. The winners will be talented riders with poor equipment and Club promoters. Edited March 19, 2016 by eric i 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 It's not all about points money now it's the complete package most riders are after a van deal a tyre oil fuel every meeting ,mechanic plus workshop facility's accommodation and sponsorship all chucked in Exactly this... Speedway riders look at other Motorcycle sports and want to emulate what they see and hear about from them. However...there just isn't the money to sustain this in Speedway, unlike other motorcycle sports. I don't blame riders trying to get as much money as possible in their short riding career...but this is the point....everything seems to revolve around 'the riders' and what they want. Speedway needs to look at itself for the long term...not at what riders want or don't want right now. Testing rev limiters is not the answer...and so what if certain riders don't like it. Imo...Riders shouldn't have to employ full time mechanics. They shouldn't have to be sending engines to be highly tuned. Speedway needs to find a way of standardising engines...and allowing individual rolling chassis etc. It needs to get to a point where a rider is never thinking about how he can make his engine faster. It should be taken out of his hands. A change of mindset is needed.... The future imo, should be where a riders mentality is purely thinking about how he can beat the other three, knowing all four riders are on standard engines, and it's just each riders track craft and skill that will win them the race...not what a tuners done to his engine. Riders imo...shouldn't even be near the engines. It should be a Club concern. Obviously money is a factor...and wages would be less, as the Club would be financing the engines, not the riders. The riders wouldn't have the cost of employing a mechanic or tuner. Roll up...bolt engine in...Race...Go home...Make it simple. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Exactly this... Speedway riders look at other Motorcycle sports and want to emulate what they see and hear about from them. However...there just isn't the money to sustain this in Speedway, unlike other motorcycle sports. I don't blame riders trying to get as much money as possible in their short riding career...but this is the point....everything seems to revolve around 'the riders' and what they want. Speedway needs to look at itself for the long term...not at what riders want or don't want right now. Testing rev limiters is not the answer...and so what if certain riders don't like it. Imo...Riders shouldn't have to employ full time mechanics. They shouldn't have to be sending engines to be highly tuned. Speedway needs to find a way of standardising engines...and allowing individual rolling chassis etc. It needs to get to a point where a rider is never thinking about how he can make his engine faster. It should be taken out of his hands. A change of mindset is needed.... The future imo, should be where a riders mentality is purely thinking about how he can beat the other three, knowing all four riders are on standard engines, and it's just each riders track craft and skill that will win them the race...not what a tuners done to his engine. Riders imo...shouldn't even be near the engines. It should be a Club concern. Obviously money is a factor...and wages would be less, as the Club would be financing the engines, not the riders. The riders wouldn't have the cost of employing a mechanic or tuner. Roll up...bolt engine in...Race...Go home...Make it simple. If speedway riders were employed by the club, similar to a footballer, you could have the kind of control as you mention above, but riders are self employed. All the club are offering is a 'platform' for the rider to operate on. However, you could perhaps have a set up where each club has a relationship with one tuner and all club riders have to use his services, but whatever the riders do for GPs and overseas riding is not the club's business. The sport could insist that riders have no more than 2 bikes including engines for league use. Each club has a spare bike and at least one spare engine (some might do anyway). In addition, the sport lays down restrictions on how far tuning should go and perhaps a ceiling on tuning/servicing cost. Whether this idea would reduce costs enough, I am not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) People are saying the club needs to buy this and to do that but they will do nothing really the riders are self employed it's their tuning bills running costs demands etc not the clubs its really up to the clubs to work within their budget and stick to it and if they can't afford some riders demands they move onto the next one that's fits their budget and that rider could price himself out of a team spot pretty sure they would rather ride than sit out It,s still the rider that wins races not the bikes , the bikes are not tuned to go as fast as possible it about gettin the right power curve at the right time on the right part of the track it would pointless having a bike that's too fast and unrideable and spinning way too much and no drive not every rider uses the top tuners either Edited March 19, 2016 by mac101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted March 19, 2016 Report Share Posted March 19, 2016 Go back to S4K's post which stated in the context of speedway riders that "Wages at all levels of the sport are getting extreme." So what's an extreme wage in speedway? Most riders in PL probably have to pay to ride, IF you count everything in to it. Some EL actually do pay to ride. But to answer your wage question, most wages probably are extreme since promoters whine year after year how expensive it is. And there's a line of people ready to become one! And two is a queu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 If speedway riders were employed by the club, similar to a footballer, you could have the kind of control as you mention above, but riders are self employed. All the club are offering is a 'platform' for the rider to operate on. However, you could perhaps have a set up where each club has a relationship with one tuner and all club riders have to use his services, but whatever the riders do for GPs and overseas riding is not the club's business. The sport could insist that riders have no more than 2 bikes including engines for league use. Each club has a spare bike and at least one spare engine (some might do anyway). In addition, the sport lays down restrictions on how far tuning should go and perhaps a ceiling on tuning/servicing cost. Whether this idea would reduce costs enough, I am not sure. Many good points fella...but as I've said before, you say riders are self employed. So are Footballers...they just sign contracts that last so many years, then they are a free agent again. People are saying the club needs to buy this and to do that but they will do nothing really the riders are self employed it's their tuning bills running costs demands etc not the clubs its really up to the clubs to work within their budget and stick to it and if they can't afford some riders demands they move onto the next one that's fits their budget and that rider could price himself out of a team spot pretty sure they would rather ride than sit out It,s still the rider that wins races not the bikes , the bikes are not tuned to go as fast as possible it about gettin the right power curve at the right time on the right part of the track it would pointless having a bike that's too fast and unrideable and spinning way too much and no drive not every rider uses the top tuners either So change it...so many people saying, 'riders do this, clubs do that'...well it's not working is it...so change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted March 20, 2016 Report Share Posted March 20, 2016 Go back to S4K's post which stated in the context of speedway riders that "Wages at all levels of the sport are getting extreme." So what's an extreme wage in speedway? To clarify in terms of the risk and entertainment involved there will never be too much money however there are far too many riders looking to earn a living out of speedway rather than a subsidised hobby. Its all too easy to forget that first and foremost these riders love to race. As for extreme its the increases in wages in percentages rather than pure value. For example in the NL 2013 Scunthorpe & Kings Lynn were paying £10 a point. Other clubs a bit more but not hugely. Last year i know there were number 1's on £30 a point. This season there are riders on £40-£60 a point and these are not heat leaders. Anyone who has recently got a 200-400% pay rise recently raise your hand...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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