Starman2006 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Suprised the conspiracy theorists havent yet jumped on the "hes keeping his pl average down so that he gets a berth for Poole". I do struggle to understand why people think Garrity is better than Newman. Never seen anything to prove that is the case. Newman just seems a more complete rider. Better style, track craft and has had Garrity in his pocket for a while now. Guess we will see tomorrow night when they meet again. Just my opinion of course but I would have Newman in my 1-7 any day over Garrity. I would have Kyle in my 1-5 over Garrity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Both Newman and Garrity have their strengths and weaknesses. If I was putting a 1-7 together, I would go with Garrity ahead of Newman. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would have Kyle in my 1-5 over Garrity... Have just heard that Jason has retired now as he really cares what you & Shovlar think😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Comparing him to Newman is chalk and cheese. Newman smooth and looking polished, Garrity very rough in his style. In the EL they are pretty much like for like, whilst in the PL Garrity is well clear. Both are ambitious and i believe plenty more to come from both. I applaud Kyle for getting a Polish team place which is exactly what Jason and the next generation of young riders wanting to move forward in the sport need to do. Jason for me just edges it as things stand but the season for 2016 has barely started so plenty of time for both to move forward in their respective leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Both Newman and Garrity have their strengths and weaknesses. If I was putting a 1-7 together, I would go with Garrity ahead of Newman.If I was a manager, no way would I have Garrity. I get the feeling Newman is easier to deal with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 Suprised the conspiracy theorists havent yet jumped on the "hes keeping his pl average down so that he gets a berth for Poole". I do struggle to understand why people think Garrity is better than Newman. Never seen anything to prove that is the case. Newman just seems a more complete rider. Better style, track craft and has had Garrity in his pocket for a while now. Guess we will see tomorrow night when they meet again. Just my opinion of course but I would have Newman in my 1-7 any day over Garrity. I would agree with you that Newman is currently a better rider than Garrity, he is more reliable and a mature rider. It is curious why his PL average is 6.84 whereas Garrity's average is 8.46 yet I would guess their EL averages would be the reverse and Newman would have the greater average. Is it really down to Poole getting the best out of Newman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would agree with you that Newman is currently a better rider than Garrity, he is more reliable and a mature rider. It is curious why his PL average is 6.84 whereas Garrity's average is 8.46 yet I would guess their EL averages would be the reverse and Newman would have the greater average. Is it really down to Poole getting the best out of Newman? They will. And Kyle is hell bent on getting a top five place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Those who say Newman has no ambition are way off kilter. Whether he has the ability to match his ambition is another question. There is no doubt Newman has ambition. He has managed to get a team berth in Poland with Pila. Which Polish team is Garrity signed up for? So he is riding three leagues in 2016. EL, PL and Polish second Division. Will he be a Team GB rider in the future? Possibly, possibly not. But I did speak to him in the winter and he was not happy with his 2015 form and knew there was more to come, and said he needed to improve his gating. He has the determination but that alone is not enough and IMO will be a very decent second string/ third heat leader. Always seems to be not fast enough. When he wins a heat it is often half a second slower than other heats. Like to be proved wrong though. Garrity. Everytime I have seen him he is all over the place. Locking up and losing 20 metres, often over riding. Comparing him to Newman is chalk and cheese. Newman smooth and looking polished, Garrity very rough in his style. Because of this Newman tends most of the time to have Garrity in his pocket. We will have another opportunity to see if this is true tomorrow night. Both riders have ambition and want to get as far as they can in the sport. Not every ride can get to the top, and personally neither will be GP riders of the future. But both are capable with experience to represent their country in the future. I would agree with that. I think Kyle is the more polished rider while Jason is the rougher around the edges rider. I think under that rough exterior though Jason is a better rider then Kyle but Kyle is not bad rider. Kyle always seems to have Garrity in hand at EL level. Kyle seems to know this as does Jason and Jason seems to over ride and go wrong as a result. As for who has most ambition, well I'm sorry but wanting to ride in the 1-5 is not showing ambition. Meanwhile riding in Poland and having travelled around half of Europe every other weekend for the last few years as Kyle has done doesn't strike me as someone who lacks ambition. "Ambitious" Jason Garrity withdrew from the World Under 21 qualis when he qualified meanwhile Kyle was racing in Euro U21s and anything else he could race in! Personally, I like both and would have both in my EL and PL team without a moments hesitation! Edited March 17, 2016 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted March 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would agree with you that Newman is currently a better rider than Garrity, he is more reliable and a mature rider. It is curious why his PL average is 6.84 whereas Garrity's average is 8.46 yet I would guess their EL averages would be the reverse and Newman would have the greater average. Is it really down to Poole getting the best out of Newman? A rider in the past once told me it was easier to get injured in the PL as riders tended to be less experienced and if you tried to make a pass you risked being taken out by over ambitious and out of control riders. In the EL riders were of a higher calibre, and also less of a risk on a bike so you could race in the knowledge that there was less of a chance of being injured. Perhaps, and this is only speculation, Kyle doesnt want to risk a big injury in the PL which could harm his team berths at a higher level. Especially in 2016 when he is also riding in Poland every week. Also, if I remember correctly, Nick Morris also had a much better EL average than his PL average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanr1 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I like Newman, he's a smooth and reliable rider who never lets Poole down, I would be happy to have him on my team. I think a lot of the reason people think he has the edge over Garrity in the EL is that the only tracks they ever really go head to head on are Poole & Coventry. You would expect Newman to be better round his home track and he is, but he's also very good round Coventry and arguably has the edge there too. However I think if you put them head to head on all of the other EL tracks Garrity would win most of the time. I don't think Newman will get much better than he is now, Garrity has more potential to do so but needs to calm down. Riding at 2 will be a big test for him as he will have to ride even harder to score points now, he won't do that by getting excluded all the time. Overall though both decent riders who I enjoy watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I think a lot of the reason people think he has the edge over Garrity in the EL is that the only tracks they ever really go head to head on are Poole & Coventry. You would expect Newman to be better round his home track and he is, but he's also very good round Coventry and arguably has the edge there too. Thats a good point. And that stats over the last two years would agree with you apart from at Leicester. Weirdly, the stats disprove what I thought that Kyle was the more consistent and Jason more erratic as Jasons best and worst tracks seem to be closer in terms of average than Kyles. Statistically speaking Jasons worst EL track was Wolves A track he's beaten Woffinden at in the last 12 months. Where the stats do prove my point about consistency is Kyle tends to beat those you'd expect him to and lose to those you'd expect. By that I mean he doesn't tend to lose to lesser reserves or beat as many heat leaders. While Jason beat more heat leaders but is more likely to lose an easier race - in fact Jason is far, far more likely to beat a heat leader away from home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I do struggle to understand why people think Garrity is better than Newman. Never seen anything to prove that is the case. Newman just seems a more complete rider. Better style, track craft and has had Garrity in his pocket for a while now. Guess we will see tomorrow night when they meet again. Just my opinion of course but I would have Newman in my 1-7 any day over Garrity. Garrity was fourth in last years British Final and aGrand Prix reserve. The more you argue that Newmanis a higher calibre than that the more you reinforce and support the point that he is far too good to be an EDR reserve and should, like Garrity be in the 1-5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Garrity was fourth in last years British Final and aGrand Prix reserve. The more you argue that Newmanis a higher calibre than that the more you reinforce and support the point that he is far too good to be an EDR reserve and should, like Garrity be in the 1-5.Newman will be in the 1-5 soon enough.Garrity has messed Coventry up by starting in the 1-5. Edited March 17, 2016 by lisa-colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerite Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 For what its worth, I think Garrity was on the must sign riders list for most Sheffield fans this season. He was absolutely brilliant for us last season and helped save our season after Steady got hurt. As regards the Elite League, I guess Jason could have done the easy thing and stayed in the comfort zone as a fast track rider but the kid wants to move on in the sport and you cannot fault him for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I would have Kyle in my 1-5 over Garrity... So you also agree that that he is a 1-5 rider and too good to be an EDR reserve.And Kyle is hell bent on getting a top five place. Unlike his promoter who is just plain bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 For what its worth, I think Garrity was on the must sign riders list for most Sheffield fans this season. He was absolutely brilliant for us last season and helped save our season after Steady got hurt. As regards the Elite League, I guess Jason could have done the easy thing and stayed in the comfort zone as a fast track rider but the kid wants to move on in the sport and you cannot fault him for that.Yes, you can fault him! He says he wants to win trophies with his teams but he has made Coventry weaker! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 So you also agree that that he is a 1-5 rider and too good to be an EDR reserve. Unlike his promoter who is just plain bent. Kyle has shown a lot of improvement in the last couple of years, and he is ambitious enough to want to be in the team proper. As for your second point, your walking on dodgy ground there pal. You have no proof of that. And that goes for anybody on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) Newman will be in the 1-5 soon enough. Garrity has messed Coventry up by starting in the 1-5. Coventry messed Coventry up with the picks, how did we get two riders below 10 on the list while some clubs have two in the top ten. Edited March 17, 2016 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 Statistically speaking Jasons worst EL track was Wolves A track he's beaten Woffinden at in the last 12 months. Really? I'm shocked at that! I'd have said it was his best track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Really? I'm shocked at that! I'd have said it was his best track! 9+1 from 6 rides and 8 from 5 rides last year so not all conquering at Wolves as people seem to think. Got home from work feeling upbeat about tonight, let me sleep on it and I'm sure that'll change! Edited March 18, 2016 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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